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Old 03-31-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by kBuc5 View Post
His flaws had everything to to with being in a new system.
Poor mechanics inconsistent accuracy ., staring down his first read, rattled under pressure. That's not system related. Also doesn't look off defenders.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Freeman's problem is mental, he will be more comfortable with a year under his belt.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Freeman's problem is mental, he will be more comfortable with a year under his belt.
90% of the qb play is mental. Intangible >>>>arm strength.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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90% of the qb play is mental.
Agreed.....
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Agreed.....
What I'm saying is, we haven't seen that from Freeman. It's make or break, but expect a back up option with upside to be drafted in the first 4 rounds.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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We all know that Mark Domnick loves to make draft day trades and if he pulls off anything close to last year, which netted us 3 starters, in a draft as deep as this one he could very well push us to the next level. What are some trade scenarios you would like to see?

Personally I would like to see a trade that would net us at the very least an extra 2nd round pick in this years draft. Similar to the one bucfan12 mentioned with San Francisco but minus the Darrell Revis trade scenario. Nowadays 2nd round picks are just as valuable as 1st rounders. Use the BPA and pick up a NT(Jenkins or Williams), CB(Hopefully one of the top three falls to 31 if not Banks), and a TE(Ertz or Escobar) in that order.

*On a side note it was really hard to keep grounded and just shoot for an extra 2nd round pick when there are 2 teams with 2 1st dangling like carrot in front of a horse.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:38 AM    (permalink
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No love for Carridine? I can see him in a similar situation to D Bowers a few years ago
I'm not a fan of drafting ANY player... or trading for one for that matter... of a player that suffered a serious injury and has yet to prove he's healthy.

Bowers was top of the 1st round talent before he got hurt... mid 2nd round was decent value for him. Carradine is/was good, but I'm not putting any of my chips in on him unless I knew he was healthy.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:43 AM    (permalink
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Big freak,

I think. Regardless what you and I think Revis is going to be a buc. Whether its sooner or later trades going to happen.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:44 AM    (permalink
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I just don't see the plan with the Bucs right now. We have big time holes at CB, DT and RT. I understand why they want to give up a 1 and 2 in 2014 for Revis. We are overpaying with next years picks so we can keep our picks in this draft. But the way the Bucs have played their hand if they don't get Revis this offseason will get a F. Cause will go into next season getting burned at the CB spot again.

My dream draft as of right now...
1. Jarvis Jones ( SLB that can be on the field with Bowers and Clay )
2. Brandon Williams ( Big Body DT to help cover up our LB Core )
3. Corey Lemonier ( DE that can fly. Can never have too many! )
4. Marcus Lattimore ( Would fill in is Martin's backup plus give some value )
I don't think the purpose of the plan is for us to see it... just as long as there is a plan, that is.

Jarvis Jones could be an interesting piece. Williams I like, I like Lemonier as well... but I think he would pretty much be the same as Jones... a DE/OLB hybrid... you can never have too many, but it would be nice to get them on the field..

Lattimore, good story, wouldn't touch him until round 7... that's probably half the teams... the other half of the teams won't touch him at all. He's got first round talent but unfortunately he has rookie tryout camp knees. I can't imagine that his medical situation is better than Chris Polk's (who never missed a game and was undrafted due to medical concerns) and I would be shocked if he came off the board before round 6.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Here's my scenario for the Bucs:

Trade for Darrell Revis. Give up a 2nd this year and a 2nd that can be a 1st next year and Blount and 6th round pick this year.
Bucs sign DT Alan Branch

Draft: Niners covet Kenny Vaccarro. With 15 picks, they move up to 13. Give up the 31st pick, their 2nd from KC and 3rd.

Bucs:
31 overall 1st round: Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
2nd via San Fransisco: Tyler Wilson QB Arkansas
3rd: Logan Ryan CB Rutgers
3rd via San Fransisco: DeVonte Holloman OLB South Carolina
4th Round: Jordan Hil DT Penn State
4th via New England: Chris Harper WR Kansas State
5th: Ricky Wagner T Wisconsin
6th: Quanterrus Smith DE W. Kentucky
Uggh, second time I've ssen Hill in one of your mocks... ughh.

Wilson doesn't impress me nor look much like a 2nd round QB.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:57 AM    (permalink
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Round 1 - Sheldon Richardson, DT/DE
Round 2 - Khaseem Greene, OLB
Round 3 - Logan Ryan, CB
Round 4a - Tyrann Mathieu, CB
Round 4b - Stepfan Taylor, RB

And the defense looks like this....



Ryan---------Clayborn-------- McCoy------ Richardson------- Bowers------ Revis


--------------------------- David------- Foster------- Greene------------------




----------------------------- Goldson--------- Barron------------------------------------



And then you sub in a, hopefully clean, Honey Badger, and Leonard Johnson/Eric Wright as nickel CB depending on situation.. yikes. I'd also like to see us add Sedrick Ellis or Alan Branch as a NT for rotation, as well as Dwight Freeney at DE to come in on passing situations on 2nd and 3rd downs in a rotation with both Bowers and Clayborn. And if Ronde comes back, well, Badger can sit a year and learn.... play special teams.


Option 2 - The "It fits the needs" draft.... maybe not flashy, but could turn out to have more than a few solid pros...

Round 1 - Star Lotulelei, NT
Round 2 - Blidi Wreh-Wilson, CB
Round 3 - David Amerson, CB
Round 4a - Oday Aboushi, RT
Round 4b - Devin Taylor, DE


Option 3 - The "we made a trade with the picks" draft....

Round 1 - Sheldon Richardson, DT/DE
Round 1 - Xavier Rhodes, CB
Round 3 - Jordan Poyer, CB
Round 4 - Stepfan Taylor, RB
You seem dead set on using a 4th round pick on a "Taylor". Devin I like... Stepfan looks like just a guy. His lack of speed at the combine was astonishing. I've seen other guys run as slow (4.76) or even slower than Taylor... but none of them went on to do ANYTHING in the NFL. I like his skill set, toughness, but his lack of speed is very tough to ignore.

Under option 2... I'm trying to figure out how those guys fill needs... Two CBs that clearly can't cover, and one OT that abolutely can't block. I'm a UVa fan, I've seen Aboushi too many times... he SHOULD go undrafted. Weak, slow, bad technique, plays soft... I'm still trying to figure out how he got a Senior Bowl invite.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:04 AM    (permalink
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Poor mechanics inconsistent accuracy ., staring down his first read, rattled under pressure. That's not system related. Also doesn't look off defenders.
No, poor mechanics had to do with bad coaching. Ron Turner is gone. Staring down his first read, not looking defenders off... that has a ton to do with being in a new system.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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No, poor mechanics had to do with bad coaching. Ron Turner is gone. Staring down his first read, not looking defenders off... that has a ton to do with being in a new system.
But he's done that his entire career. State down Wrs and not look off defenders. So no it's not just the new system.

I want and hope freeman puts it together this year. I was a fan of his coming out because his potential was extremely high. Coaching plays a good part but another problem is his lack of processing things from the film room to live game action.

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Old 04-01-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Okay... no CBs in free agency thus far. Michael Bennett is gone and possibly for good reason. What if... what if... what if Schiano and company actually learned something from the defense's two best later season performances (Atlanta and Denver) and plan on implenting a crap ton more of T-2 and cover 2 for this season.

From a $$$ and draft perspective, it's a lot cheaper to find good pass rushers and decent CBs and run T-2 and cover 2 than it is to find good pass rushers and good CBs and run the blitz heavy man schemes they ran last season.

I would estimate the team played T-2 or cover 2 in 67-75% of the snaps against Atlanta and I'm thinking they SHOWED cover 2 against Denver on every snap. Anyway, I think this would be a very wise move plus we would be the emphasis on the defense squarely on finding pass rushers instead of trying to find both pass rushers and shutdown CBs.

If this is the case, this might be why the Revis trade didn't happen, why no CBs were signed in free agency, why Roy Miller was allowed to walk, and why we may be targeting Floyd, Richardson, or even Star L. to come in and beef up the pass rush. Plus, in the T-2 and cover 2, the safety position i the focal point over the CB position which would explain why we dumped a turd load on Goldson which gave us interchangeable safeties like Schiano claimed he wanted.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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If we went to T-2/C-2 next season, I see us definitely looking to beef up the pass rush well before the CB spots.

A draft in which we target:
DT Floyd, DT, Richardson, DT Star L. DE Ansah, DE/LB Jordan in round 1
MLB Greene, DE Lemonier, DE/OLB Collins,l CB Banks, CB Slay, CB Ryan, CB Wreh-Wison in round 2
CB Amerson, CB Commings, LB Bostic, DE/OLB Washington

The focus goes to finding quick upfield pass rushers, rangy coverage LBs, and CBs that will tackle, have ball skills, and might not be great man-to-man coverage CBs.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Okay... no CBs in free agency thus far. Michael Bennett is gone and possibly for good reason. What if... what if... what if Schiano and company actually learned something from the defense's two best later season performances (Atlanta and Denver) and plan on implenting a crap ton more of T-2 and cover 2 for this season.

From a $$$ and draft perspective, it's a lot cheaper to find good pass rushers and decent CBs and run T-2 and cover 2 than it is to find good pass rushers and good CBs and run the blitz heavy man schemes they ran last season.

I would estimate the team played T-2 or cover 2 in 67-75% of the snaps against Atlanta and I'm thinking they SHOWED cover 2 against Denver on every snap. Anyway, I think this would be a very wise move plus we would be the emphasis on the defense squarely on finding pass rushers instead of trying to find both pass rushers and shutdown CBs.

If this is the case, this might be why the Revis trade didn't happen, why no CBs were signed in free agency, why Roy Miller was allowed to walk, and why we may be targeting Floyd, Richardson, or even Star L. to come in and beef up the pass rush. Plus, in the T-2 and cover 2, the safety position i the focal point over the CB position which would explain why we dumped a turd load on Goldson which gave us interchangeable safeties like Schiano claimed he wanted.
No offense but it's wishful thinking that we won't get Revis. I think it's going to happen sooner or later.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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No offense but it's wishful thinking that we won't get Revis. I think it's going to happen sooner or later.
I think it's about 50/50. Our cap situation doesn't look so rosy next season. We aren't one player away from being a top team. Revis is not guaranteed to be healthy. WIth each passing day Revis hasn't been traded it gets less likely. At some point, either the Bucs will wonder why nobody else wants him, or another team will want in, either way, whichever team that is, is enjoying the "Revis to Bucs talk" because it takes the attention off the "Revis to ____" talk. I think at best, it is a 50/50 proposition.

A lot of people, you included, thought the Bucs were hot and heavy after Trent Richardson. I think they heard the rumors and let them go... or maybe they wanted Richardson but there was no way they would be ripped off for him... and it turned out great for them. There's no reason to think after winning in the draft next season that they would scrap that philosophy and go all Dan Snyder, is there?

Besides, with all the attention on Revis or not to Revis, it might take away from the fact that the Bucs couldn't care less because they are switching things up.

I just watched an interview with Ronde Barber... and if he comes back, who better to play CB in the T-2 than him? Putting Revis into a defense, that Barber just said would be far more conservative thi season, would be a waste of his talents and of payroll.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I watched the same interview and he said te defensive scheme is more pressman oriented. That's why I think Revis is a buc.

Normally I'd agree. We do a great job of keeping things in house however the jets leak a lot of info. That's why I think the rumor has legs.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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I watched the same interview and he said te defensive scheme is more pressman oriented. That's why I think Revis is a buc.

Normally I'd agree. We do a great job of keeping things in house however the jets leak a lot of info. That's why I think the rumor has legs.
Initially I was excited about the idea of having Revis on our team but thinking about it in the long term sense it may cause us to lose some key players that we need to resign next offseason. It would be different if he would sign a contract with a low cap number and more incentive friendly but he wants guaranteed money. I believe we have like 6 players making $7 mil + with Jackson, McCoy, and Nicks making over $10 mil. Do you think its wise for the front office to take on another huge contract?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Initially I was excited about the idea of having Revis on our team but thinking about it in the long term sense it may cause us to lose some key players that we need to resign next offseason. It would be different if he would sign a contract with a low cap number and more incentive friendly but he wants guaranteed money. I believe we have like 6 players making $7 mil + with Jackson, McCoy, and Nicks making over $10 mil. Do you think its wise for the front office to take on another huge contract?
I'm not that big of a fan either with the price we'd have to pay. I really think there are some guys in the draft that can fill the void. Rhodes I just think has elite potential.

We need to NOT trade away high picks and build through the draft. We still don't know if we have a franchise QB in Freeman. If he steps it up, he'll get rewarded. If he doesn't we won't have a high round pick to get a QB next year. So either way, gotta figure that. Revis is going to cost near franchise QB money. Is a CB really worth it? Not in my opinion.
However, I think it's going to happen. Whether it's in the next week or so or during the draft. Just at the point here just announce something officially so we can know how to approach the draft.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Okay... no CBs in free agency thus far. Michael Bennett is gone and possibly for good reason. What if... what if... what if Schiano and company actually learned something from the defense's two best later season performances (Atlanta and Denver) and plan on implenting a crap ton more of T-2 and cover 2 for this season.

From a $$$ and draft perspective, it's a lot cheaper to find good pass rushers and decent CBs and run T-2 and cover 2 than it is to find good pass rushers and good CBs and run the blitz heavy man schemes they ran last season.

I would estimate the team played T-2 or cover 2 in 67-75% of the snaps against Atlanta and I'm thinking they SHOWED cover 2 against Denver on every snap. Anyway, I think this would be a very wise move plus we would be the emphasis on the defense squarely on finding pass rushers instead of trying to find both pass rushers and shutdown CBs.

If this is the case, this might be why the Revis trade didn't happen, why no CBs were signed in free agency, why Roy Miller was allowed to walk, and why we may be targeting Floyd, Richardson, or even Star L. to come in and beef up the pass rush. Plus, in the T-2 and cover 2, the safety position i the focal point over the CB position which would explain why we dumped a turd load on Goldson which gave us interchangeable safeties like Schiano claimed he wanted.


It might make sense, if you consider the 2012 season a throw-away of sorts. If Schiano's plan was to use 2012 as more an evaluation of the defensive backfield to find parts......


You might be right. That is a hallmark of Butch Davis too, afterall.


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Old 04-02-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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In other news, John Skelton was released. Coach McNulty coached him in Arizona. He's 25, big, with a big arm. He'd come cheap. If McNulty thinks he has anything at all, this looks like a probable Bucs signing.

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Old 04-02-2013, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Eric Wright is expected to restructure his contract and remain a Buc.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Now that Star has been cleared by Dr. Josef Stehlik of University of Utah Cardiology. The Dr believes his abnormally low heart beat was the result of a viral infection. He has to be a top 10 pick, hopefully he will fall to us but I don't believe he will anymore.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Now that Star has been cleared by Dr. Josef Stehlik of University of Utah Cardiology. The Dr believes his abnormally low heart beat was the result of a viral infection. He has to be a top 10 pick, hopefully he will fall to us but I don't believe he will anymore.
I'd be fine with Star, Floyd, or Sheldon Richardson. There's a good chance two of the three will be gone... but not all three. If we want an impact DT, there should be one of those three available.
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