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Old 04-01-2013, 06:42 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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It'll be a 6/7/conditional

Everything is a win about this deal, except his 2013 salary of $1.3 million.
He cost more than Tolizen but he's not as good. I don't like the move at all. I've never liked McCoy. Not at Texas and not in the pros. You can't succeed as a QB with no accuracy beyond 10-15 yards. I'm hopeful Baalke gets him to re-structure but I doubt it, since that is usually part of the trade initially. I trust JH to make any QB serviceable but there's no way our possible 3rd string QB needs to cost that much.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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He cost more than Tolizen but he's not as good. I don't like the move at all. I've never liked McCoy. Not at Texas and not in the pros. You can't succeed as a QB with no accuracy beyond 10-15 yards. I'm hopeful Baalke gets him to re-structure but I doubt it, since that is usually part of the trade initially. I trust JH to make any QB serviceable but there's no way our possible 3rd string QB needs to cost that much.
I don't care for the move either, but I think they brought in McCoy to be the backup... not the 3rd stringer.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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I don't care for the move either, but I think they brought in McCoy to be the backup... not the 3rd stringer.
They brought him in to compete for the back-up spot. He still has to earn it on the field. And I honestly don't see him beating Tolizen for 2nd string.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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So.....we traded a 5th and a 7th round draft pick to CLE for a 6th round draft pick and QB Colt McCoy who's a UFA next year. Its late round draft picks so its not that big of a deal but is Harbaugh/Baalke really happy with Tolzien as the backup to Kaepernick? If they are, I dont see the point in trading for McCoy especially with his $1.5m salary for 2013. They must not be happy with Tolzien as the backup because why else trade for McCoy?

This trade just baffles me.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Hmm...yeah, I think I would have taken my chances with a rookie in the draft. Already know what McCoy brings to the table and it isn't good any if we were to use either of those two picks we traded on a quarterback in the draft he wouldn't do worse than McCoy, who is quite frankly terrible.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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The picks don't concern me. We basically gave up a 7th rounder for him. The 5th we gave up is only 9 slots ahead of the 6th rounder they gave us. Its his cap hit that I don't like, just like with the Boldin trade. I understand the appeal of McCoy to JH. He's mobile around the pocket, throws well on the run and has starting experience. He's very comfortable in the shotgun, which I think we might see more of from here on out and he's young enough in that if he takes to JH's tutelage, you can re-sign him and you can have a decent back-up for a couple of years. But I just think his negatives far outweigh he's positives. And what's crazy is I still see them drafting a QB...

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Old 04-01-2013, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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The picks don't concern me. We basically gave up a 7th rounder for him. The 5th we gave up is only 9 slots ahead of the 6th rounder they gave us. Its his cap hit that I don't like, just like with the Boldin trade. I understand the appeal of McCoy to JH. He's mobile around the pocket, throws well on the run and has starting experience. And he's young enough in that if he takes to JH's tutelage, you can re-sign him and you can have a decent back-up for a couple of years. But I just think he's negatives far outweigh he's positives. And what's crazy is I still see them drafting a QB...
The trade shows we pursued him to an extent so he'll have to be really bad to not make the roster. TBH i don't think we draft a QB unless we want to push Tolzien off the roster, OR if we draft one really late in the draft (like in the 7th) as a camp arm.

Albert Breer was on 95.7 and said that talking to NFL execs... consensus is this QB draft class is viewed as one of the worst in the last 20-25 years. I'm guessing HarBaalke rather spend a 7 on McCoy than a 7 on a rookie.

I liked McCoy back in 2010 but his play took a real dip the last 2 years. But he'll undoubtedly be better in our system with Harbaugh than in Cleveland with Shurmur.

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Old 04-01-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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The trade shows we pursued him to an extent so he'll have to be really bad to not make the roster. TBH i don't think we draft a QB unless we want to push Tolzien off the roster, OR if we draft one really late in the draft (like in the 7th) as a camp arm.

Albert Breer was on 95.7 and said that talking to NFL execs... consensus is this QB draft class is viewed as one of the worst in the last 20-25 years. I'm guessing HarBaalke rather spend a 7 on McCoy than a 7 on a rookie.

I liked McCoy back in 2010 but his play took a real dip the last 2 years. But he'll undoubtedly be better in our system with Harbaugh than in Cleveland with Shurmur.
That is my take on it as well and one of the first things that popped into my head when I read we had traded for him. But I still think they'll take a flyer on someone late though.....maybe in the 6th or 7th. And like I said, I'm more concern with the cap hit of the player than the player himself.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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The money is a much bigger issue than the 7th rounder. If we end up cutting him later I believe that the cap penalty will be $0 but what I'm concerned with is how tight these past couple moves (Dahl, McCoy) have cut our cap. I don't really see any upgrade or increase in talent level but over $3 million dissappears...... Now we have to sign all of our rookies with $3 million....cutting it too close for no reason......

I'm hoping Rodgers re-structures.....a Justin Smith extension could be possible too.....
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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The money is a much bigger issue than the 7th rounder. If we end up cutting him later I believe that the cap penalty will be $0 but what I'm concerned with is how tight these past couple moves (Dahl, McCoy) have cut our cap. I don't really see any upgrade or increase in talent level but over $3 million dissappears...... Now we have to sign all of our rookies with $3 million....cutting it too close for no reason......

I'm hoping Rodgers re-structures.....a Justin Smith extension could be possible too.....
we're looking pretty good in the future...for now. next year i think we have 98 million in contracts with a cap of 121 (could be higher). space is probably higher in the future but then we have new contracts for our guys + its not counting this years class. as well we have like less than a mil in dead money.

so we're tight up the cap for this year but i imagine someone will be extended (boldin), or cut (goodwin? whitner?). still plenty of time until we sign our rookies and figure it out.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy looked better at times than any other Browns QB over the past decade. He played really well against our 49ers in 2011.

He has 21 NFL starts, athletic ability, and a winner's attitude through the roof. What more do you want out of a backup?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm a little surprised we didn't go after Josh Johnson.

I'm just glad we didn't go after Jason Campbell. I remember when we were facing the Bears this year and everyone thought he was going to be better than Kaep, even though he sucked in the Texans game a week before. Just goes to show how much experience can be overrated. 70 starts vs 0 starts and Kaep was by far better.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm a little surprised we didn't go after Josh Johnson.
And if Harbaugh didn't want him, I'm sure there's a reason.

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I'm just glad we didn't go after Jason Campbell. I remember when we were facing the Bears this year and everyone thought he was going to be better than Kaep, even though he sucked in the Texans game a week before. Just goes to show how much experience can be overrated. 70 starts vs 0 starts and Kaep was by far better.
Yeah, remember how much time the Bears' O-Line gave him to do his job?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy looked better at times than any other Browns QB over the past decade. He played really well against our 49ers in 2011.

He has 21 NFL starts, athletic ability, and a winner's attitude through the roof. What more do you want out of a backup?
That's subjective. Personally, I thought he looked far worst than Derek Anderson when he was there. I'm not going to complain too much about the move because as I stated earlier, he has some traits which I could see JH liking. But his lack of arm strength and his inability to read defenses and hit outside-breaking routes consistently are major concerns for me. Not to mention he's very skittish in the pocket, when dropping from center. He didn't fit with Norv's vertical offense so he made no sense in Cleveland. But it aint like we're running strictly WCO stuff here either. The passing game became more vertical once CK became the starter so I'm not sure how McCoy succeeds here, as of yet. But I'm willing to let him prove me wrong and hopefully he does.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm a little surprised we didn't go after Josh Johnson.
I was as well, but I assumed they saw enough of Josh last off-season, TC, and pre-season to determine that he wasn't what they had envisioned so I'm fine with that.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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And if Harbaugh didn't want him, I'm sure there's a reason.



Yeah, remember how much time the Bears' O-Line gave him to do his job?
I've never been impressed with Campbell outside of Oakland. And really he held onto the ball too. I'm just saying experience isn't always the best indicator. Not necessarily talking about McCoy, the move is "meh" to me overall, just IMO what i feel is flawed reasoning (he has 21 starts among other qualities, how can you hate this move? etc).

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Old 04-01-2013, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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I've never been impressed with Campbell outside of Oakland. And really he held onto the ball too. I'm just saying experience isn't always the best indicator. Sometimes younger, inexperienced players are just better. Not necessarily talking about McCoy, the move is "meh" to me overall, just your flawed reasoning (guys he has 21 starts!)
My reasoning isn't flawed. Ask any NFL exec, and most would prefer a backup QB with starting experience. McCoy is a far superior option to anyone they'd likely draft in the 6th or 7th round.

The majority of the negativity I'm reading is like he's being evaluated as a future starter. He's not. He's competition for a completely unproven and unspectacular Scott Tolzien.

I get your point, and don't really disagree in a broad spectrum. But I'm not comparing Colt McCoy to Colin Kaepernick or any other NFL starter. I'm simply comparing him to Scott Tolzien and any other QB that Baalke could add this offseason.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy looked better at times than any other Browns QB over the past decade. He played really well against our 49ers in 2011.

He has 21 NFL starts, athletic ability, and a winner's attitude through the roof. What more do you want out of a backup?
Someone that gives us a decent chance to win a game if homeboy has to step in. McCoy doesn't do that.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Someone that gives us a decent chance to win a game if homeboy has to step in. McCoy doesn't do that.
I completely disagree. I'll trust Baalke on this one.

Whom did you have in mind?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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I completely disagree. I'll trust Baalke on this one.

Whom did you have in mind?
Like I said I might have taken my chances with a rookie. McCoy's instincts are awful experience or not. The worst that happens with the picks we traded for McCoy is that we get the same guy. At least it would cheaper too.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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Like I said I might have taken my chances with a rookie. McCoy's instincts are awful experience or not. The worst that happens with the picks we traded for McCoy is that we get the same guy. At least it would cheaper too.
I get it. But if you can evaluate McCoy accurately than feel free to evaluate any of the rookies that would be better.

And no, the worst that could happen with those picks is the player not being good enough to make an NFL roster.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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And no, the worst that could happen with those picks is the player not being good enough to make an NFL roster.
Which we might have with McCoy.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Which we might have with McCoy.
In your pessimistic world, yes, I guess you're right.

Might the 49ers cut him? Sure (though I think unlikely) but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of being one of the 60 best QBs in the NFL.

If he doesn't make the team it's because three QBs beat him out, in my opinion. Hence they still need to add a QB in order for that to happen. Still have 13 picks with only half having a legit shot of making the final 53.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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My reasoning isn't flawed. Ask any NFL exec, and most would prefer a backup QB with starting experience. McCoy is a far superior option to anyone they'd likely draft in the 6th or 7th round.

The majority of the negativity I'm reading is like he's being evaluated as a future starter. He's not. He's competition for a completely unproven and unspectacular Scott Tolzien.

I get your point, and don't really disagree in a broad spectrum. But I'm not comparing Colt McCoy to Colin Kaepernick or any other NFL starter. I'm simply comparing him to Scott Tolzien and any other QB that Baalke could add this offseason.
Well that's what a back-up QB is....a future starter when your starter gets hurt. So the question is would I feel better going with Tolizen or McCoy if CK had a high ankle sprain and was sidelined for 5 weeks. And from what I've seen from both, the answer is Tolizen. The only knock on Tolizen is he's a unknown. I don't see how knowing what McCoy can't do automatically makes him better than a unknown. Your already saying he's better than Tolizen...that's my problem. We don't know that yet. We dont even know if JH and Baalke even feel that way. This move shouldn't automatically bring us to that conclusion.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Well that's what a back-up QB is....a future starter when your starter gets hurt.
How many teams use high round draft picks for their backup QBs? There's more nuance to the roster spot than simply "the future starter when your starter gets hurt."

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The only knock on Tolizen is he's a unknown.
Actually my concern for Tolzien (whom I still think could be #2 QB, but likely #3) was that after he became labeled "Baby Brees" by Donte Whitner, he looked really bad. Tolzien looked spectacular against the Vikings in preseason week 1, and he got alot of praise. Unfortunately this is what he did the remainder of preseason...

8-21 | 0 TD | 1 INT | 1 Fumble

Those three games really scared me. I've yet to see him since. The only people that have seen him are the 49ers and they were the ones whom just added McCoy to compete with him.

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Your already saying he's better than Tolizen...that's my problem.
Where have I said that??? I've said I think he's better than any of the QBs that are available in rounds 6 and 7 this year. Of course I could be wrong, but the percentages are certainly on Baalke's side.
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