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Old 04-22-2007, 08:40 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
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Johnny Unitas.

He revolutionized the most important position in the game of football, bringing the 2 minute drill, the audible, and many other new concepts to the game, threw for over 40,000 yards and nearly 300 TDs in an era which 30,000 yards and about 200 TDs was the standard for a HOF QB and those numbers were unheard of, won the Greatest Game Ever Played according to most NFL historians, which was also the game that basically put the NFL in the national consciousness (namely the 1958 NFL Championship Game), and holds a Joe DiMaggio-like record streak of 47 consecutive games with at least 1 TD pass, a streak which has not even come close to being rivaled.
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Old 04-22-2007, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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^^^You need a new sig Cato June is with us now :D
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Old 04-22-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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I say Jim Brown. He was an unstoppable force for the 10 years he played, and only retired because he got bored with football.

Jerry Rice is a pretty good second place, with Marino (I know he didn't win rings but thats really his defense's fault) a distant third.
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Old 04-22-2007, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
If anybody, it's Tomlinson. And you know I mean that because I've sworn to hate him.
As far as modern day players (like Tomlinson) being regarded as the best ever, what do you guys feel they would have to do?
I'm not saying he is the greatest player, but do you think there is a lot more guys like that have to accomplish, or just time has to pass by before we appreciate how great they are?

In other words, do we just tend to look past their accomplishments because they are modern players, or because they are not as good?
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Barry Sanders, Peyton Manning, Jerry Rice, Champ Bailey
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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The ESPN experts voted on this a year or two ago, like 20 of their experts all ranked their top 10 players ever and points were awarded to each based on their ranking.


Jim Brown dominated, almost doubling the 2nd and 3rd place (which I think was Rice and Montana) guys.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Jim Brown
Rice
Montana
Ronnie Lott - Defense
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Offense - Brett Favre / Jim Brown
Defense - Reggie White / Deacon Jones
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JK17 View Post
As far as modern day players (like Tomlinson) being regarded as the best ever, what do you guys feel they would have to do?
I'm not saying he is the greatest player, but do you think there is a lot more guys like that have to accomplish, or just time has to pass by before we appreciate how great they are?

In other words, do we just tend to look past their accomplishments because they are modern players, or because they are not as good?
He'll probably need to retire first. Then he can be looked at as potentially the best. It's the nostalgia facotr.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Tomlinson is gonna have to do a little more. Let's see how well his body can hold up etc. Right now, he's no different from Walter Payton. Can he surpass him? Maybe. But its too early to tell right now.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Tomlinson is gonna have to do a little more. Let's see how well his body can hold up etc. Right now, he's no different from Walter Payton. Can he surpass him? Maybe. But its too early to tell right now.
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He'll probably need to retire first. Then he can be looked at as potentially the best. It's the nostalgia facotr.
Yeah, bascially how i feel is what you and cutlerchris said, but sometimes I get the sense that some of the older players, the Jim Browns, Sayers, etc. are given a lot more credit just because they played along time ago.

That's not a knock on them currently they are the best around, but sometimes it seems like people look past the amazing accomplishments modern day players have put up becuase they have had more strength and conditioning technologies, without recognizing that the competition they accomplish these things against has the same benefits.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, bascially how i feel is what you and cutlerchris said, but sometimes I get the sense that some of the older players, the Jim Browns, Sayers, etc. are given a lot more credit just because they played along time ago.

That's not a knock on them currently they are the best around, but sometimes it seems like people look past the amazing accomplishments modern day players have put up becuase they have had more strength and conditioning technologies, without recognizing that the competition they accomplish these things against has the same benefits.
Oh absolutely.

The thing is, you have to look at it in context.

How much did said player dominate his era? Thats the question you gotta ask.

And even if LT continues at his pace, I don't know if you can ever say that he dominated his era more than Brown did. Brown dominated the game in a way that will probably never be reproduced. LT did the same for defense.

But I think when the dust settles, Ladanian's name will definately be up there. Its just hard evaluating players careers while theyre still playing. Its like reading half of a novel, and writing a review of it.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Oh absolutely.

The thing is, you have to look at it in context.

How much did said player dominate his era? Thats the question you gotta ask.

And even if LT continues at his pace, I don't know if you can ever say that he dominated his era more than Brown did. Brown dominated the game in a way that will probably never be reproduced. LT did the same for defense.

But I think when the dust settles, Ladanian's name will definately be up there. Its just hard evaluating players careers while theyre still playing. Its like reading half of a novel, and writing a review of it.

Very true about the dominating era part, and for as great as guys like Tomlinson and Mannning are today, they all have players who have, well not been just as good, but given them competition (Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, Alexander, Larry Johnson).

I guess we'll just have to wait to the end of their careers to find out, but even then im sure there will be debate, and new, modern players, who will be pushing at their heels. The debate will just always go on in ciricles i'd imagine.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm not knocking Brown for this, but he was going against defenses that had 11 guys smaller than him.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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I'm not knocking Brown for this, but he was going against defenses that had 11 guys smaller than him.
Yeah, but that just shows you how ahead of his time he truely was from a physical standpoint.

You know who's a lost name in all these discussions of running backs?


Earl Campbell. The man was a monster, and he literally carried the entire offense all by himself.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but that just shows you how ahead of his time he truely was from a physical standpoint.

You know who's a lost name in all these discussions of running backs?


Earl Campbell. The man was a monster, and he literally carried the entire offense all by himself.
Campbell was great...if I'm not mistaken wasn't he also MVP his rookie year?
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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End of discussion.
agreed.

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Old 04-22-2007, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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I love it the "board bully" WARD gives me negative rep for saying that Deion Sanders was OW3NED by Rod Woodson. Nice, some azzclown with a man crush on Deion gives ya neg rep because his hard on for Deion drew way to much blood away from the head on his shoulders.

Here, ...I did the research for you buddy.

Rod Woodson.
11 Time Pro Bowler.
71 Career INT's [12 Def TD's]
725.0 Career tackles
13.5 Sacks
1993 Def POTY
NFL "All 90's decade team"
3 time Super Bowl participant.
***********************************
Deion Sanders
8 Time Pro Bowler
53 Career INT's [9 Def TD's]
351.0 Career Tackles
1 Career sack.
1994 Def POTY
2 time Super Bowl participant.

Read it and weep jerkoff.
Instead of knockin my rep, why not try having more than personal oppinion to back your bullish ways on here.

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Old 04-22-2007, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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I love it the "board bully" WARD gives me negative rep for saying that Deion Sanders was OW3NED by Rod Woodson. Nice, some azzclown with a man crush on Deion gives ya neg rep because his hard on for Deion drew way to much blood away from the head on his shoulders.

Here, ...I did the research for you buddy.

Rod Woodson.
11 Time Pro Bowler.
71 Career INT's [12 Def TD's]
725.0 Career tackles
13.5 Sacks
1993 Def POTY
NFL "All 90's decade team"
3 time Super Bowl participant.
***********************************
Deion Sanders
8 Time Pro Bowler
53 Career INT's [9 Def TD's]
351.0 Career Tackles
1 Career sack.
1994 Def POTY
2 time Super Bowl participant.

Read it and weep jerkoff.
Instead of knockin my rep, why not try having more than personal oppinion to back your bullish ways on here.

First off, that language is not necessary.


2nd of all, did it ever occur to you that Woodson has more tackles and INTs because he's being thrown to more?


If you want to say that Woodson was a better all around CB, then you can make that argument, I dont necessarily agree with it, but you can make it.

But theres no question who the best cover corner in NFL history was. Thats Deion Sanders.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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hahahaha...again , another guy with nothing more than "My word is the truth"....here, maybe you're to young to remember then both playing. But there's a reason Woodson had more tackles...it's because Deion DIDN"T TACKLE...he was NEVER a great tackler. Not even close.
Woodson on the other hand ...not only played CB, but he played some FS.
Especially when he went to the Raiders and with the Ravens.
He was more versitle, more aggressive was a better tackler and had a better career statistically...seriously, it's no where near close.
Deion was a punk who marketed himself better than any other CB in history , I'll give you that. But player versus player it's woodson in one of the biggest landslides you could possibly have.
And anyone who says different is either to young to have seen either played or a zombie of the Deion marketing campaign.


...and I wouldn't have used any language had this guy had the decency to respond to my comment instead of just knocking my rep.
Seriously, what kind of an over grown child does that ?
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Campbell's a good name to bring up. He's my favourite runningback of all time. I saw a highlight of his where he ran a guy over like the guy was a banner the team runs through in pre-game. And of course the infamous jersey ripping incident.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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hahahaha...again , another guy with nothing more than "My word is the truth"....here, maybe you're to young to remember then both playing. But there's a reason Woodson had more tackles...it's because Deion DIDN"T TACKLE...he was NEVER a great tackler. Not even close.
Woodson on the other hand ...not only played CB, but he played some FS.
Especially when he went to the Raiders and with the Ravens.
He was more versitle, more aggressive was a better tackler and had a better career statistically...seriously, it's no where near close.
Deion was a punk who marketed himself better than any other CB in history , I'll give you that. But player versus player it's woodson in one of the biggest landslides you could possibly have.
And anyone who says different is either to young to have seen either played or a zombie of the Deion marketing campaign.


...and I wouldn't have used any language had this guy had the decency to respond to my comment instead of just knocking my rep.
Seriously, what kind of an over grown child does that ?
Hmmm, BBD said that Deion was a better cover corner, which, judging by stats, he without a doubt was. The refused to throw his way. There were games where teams didn't even test him once. Deion Sanders was the best covering corner in NFL history. I don't remember who said it, but they said that Deion was the only corner who could play very good bump and run coverage without ever touching the reciever. If you watch him, you will see that that was exactly right. There is no doubt that Woodson was more versatile. But a corners job is to shut down the number 1 receiver. Deion did that better than anyone in history. There is no question about that. For that reason, and that reason only, I say Deion is the best corner of all time.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:52 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by Severe Punishment View Post
hahahaha...again , another guy with nothing more than "My word is the truth"....here, maybe you're to young to remember then both playing. But there's a reason Woodson had more tackles...it's because Deion DIDN"T TACKLE...he was NEVER a great tackler. Not even close.
Woodson on the other hand ...not only played CB, but he played some FS.
Especially when he went to the Raiders and with the Ravens.
He was more versitle, more aggressive was a better tackler and had a better career statistically...seriously, it's no where near close.
Deion was a punk who marketed himself better than any other CB in history , I'll give you that. But player versus player it's woodson in one of the biggest landslides you could possibly have.
And anyone who says different is either to young to have seen either played or a zombie of the Deion marketing campaign.


...and I wouldn't have used any language had this guy had the decency to respond to my comment instead of just knocking my rep.
Seriously, what kind of an over grown child does that ?

Again, I understand the argument that Woodson was a better all around player.

But as a pure cover corner, its no comparison. Deion was simply better in coverage.

As a tackler/run stopper, Woodson by a mile.

But Deion was simply out of this world when talking about coverage. He was the best.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:54 PM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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So your reasoning is that Deion was a better PLAYER because teams failed to throw his way ? hahahaha laughable.
I've never heard the "QB's were to scared to throw his way therefore that makes him better" arguement.

just so you know, it's wrong. All this proves is that QB's who faced him were mentally inferior....as they played scared, instead of just playing.
Deion couldn't tackle. Not "he was a bad tackler" , he couldn't do it. If someone caught a ball on him he'd try punching the ball out or stripping it but he wasn't going to try and tackle someone.

And if you're going to call a DEFENSIVE player the "greatest" at his position , I'd think tackling would damn near be one of the top criteria's.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Severe Punishment View Post
So your reasoning is that Deion was a better PLAYER because teams failed to throw his way ? hahahaha laughable.
I've never heard the "QB's were to scared to throw his way therefore that makes him better" arguement.

just so you know, it's wrong. All this proves is that QB's who faced him were mentally inferior....as they played scared, instead of just playing.
Deion couldn't tackle. Not "he was a bad tackler" , he couldn't do it. If someone caught a ball on him he'd try punching the ball out or stripping it but he wasn't going to try and tackle someone.

And if you're going to call a DEFENSIVE player the "greatest" at his position , I'd think tackling would damn near be one of the top criteria's.
You're being awfully critical of someone who thinks "their opinion is the bottom line" when you seem to be doing the same thing...

All BBD and other defends of Deion in this thread argued was that he is the better coverage corner. In fact BBD even said he understands the Woodson as the better overall player, but there is a lot of truth to Deion being a better coverage cornerback. That has nothing to do with tackling or run support, like he said.
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