Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 622
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Mediocre means average. I think that's fair. Von will or should eventually take the Dumerville role in this defense. Unless you get a Freeney type to play RE.
Von Miller will never be a 4-3 DE...he might line up there occasionally but he is a 4-3 LB that has a role very similar to a 3-4 OLB...

he was asked to drop back alot actually last year and he spied the running qb's as well.. take a look at the Carolina game, Von abused newton.
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
king2am
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 957
Reputation: 72652
king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
You guys are insane if you think Earl Thomas is even a top-5 safety, let alone "best safety in the league".

He's fast, has good range, but blows his fair share of coverages and doesn't offer anything spectacular in the run game.

He's not bad, but he's a far cry from the top-5.
If he's not a top 5 FS who is?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
It's called Karma for all the years with Montana and Young.
king2am is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 10:41 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,254
Reputation: 4191549
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
Von Miller will never be a 4-3 DE...he might line up there occasionally but he is a 4-3 LB that has a role very similar to a 3-4 OLB...

he was asked to drop back alot actually last year and he spied the running qb's as well.. take a look at the Carolina game, Von abused newton.
Nor should he. He's a rushbacker/joker. He can still play the Dooms role as a rushbacker on the LOS and rush the weakside in a staggered 1 gap 34 if they wanted to incorporate that to the scheme. In this adjustment, Von is essentially the wide 9 rusher, only difference is he's standing up instead of in a 3 point.

That goes back to my believe that Denver should eventually move to a 3-4 defense and have him rush more often, but that's another topic for another day. It's like they have a Ferrari in the garage but they don't take it for a spin until Friday night comes around.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 622
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Nor should he. He's a rushbacker/joker. He can still play the Dooms role as a rushbacker on the LOS and rush the weakside in a staggered 1 gap 34 if they wanted to incorporate that to the scheme. In this adjustment, Von is essentially the wide 9 rusher, only difference is he's standing up instead of in a 3 point.

That goes back to my believe that Denver should eventually move to a 3-4 defense and have him rush more often, but that's another topic for another day. It's like they have a Ferrari in the garage but they don't take it for a spin until Friday night comes around.
I loved when Denver went 3-4 under McDaniels, it was the trend at the time the Patriots, the Steelers were winning championships running it.

But when we switched back to the 4-3 it took a season or two to build the roster back to a 4-3 squad... the switch back to 3-4 will similarly take a year or 2 and that is not going to work with the Manning timeline of win now.
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:13 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,254
Reputation: 4191549
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
then you haven't watched denver lately. further, why are you talking about champ bailey and DRC when i specifically brought up safeties? deliberate dishonesty, or when you re-typed 'safeties', were you just not sure what that actually meant?



i have no idea why you keep pushing this nonsense, but it remains nonsense. putting von at DE makes him FAR less effective on running downs, and does little to nothing to increase his effectiveness on passing downs. it's inane.

randomly moving back to a 34 would be idiotic. no one on the DL fits it. none of the linebackers fit it. we would be completely starting over to make one player incrementally more effective. i have no idea what team you thought you were watching when this seemed like a good idea, but it wasn't us.

Von would bulk up. I'm not concerned about his run defense, he's great at slipping blocks and if he packs on 10 lbs he'll be just fine on the LOS.

And you're thinking 2 gap defense. I'm trying to stay away from the 43, 34 moniker (although I'm still terribly guilty of using it) bc it's not accurate. It's about how you defend gaps. You can use a 3-4 front in a 1 gap defense and be just fine. It's essentially a 4-3 over, just putting Von in a more attacking role.

Look at Houston, they went from a 4-3 to a 1 gap 3-4 and became the best statistical defense in the league during the year of transition. It can be done easily.

If you 1 gap, your DL is just fine. No need for change. Your WILL is just fine, he'll just play WILB instead which defends the same gaps anyway. You need a MIKE anyway. You can use another DT anyway. You need another edge rusher anyway. So it's not like you have to blow the thing up and rebuild. You'll have the same exact needs going into the draft.

It's not nearly as drastic a change as you think. You run a hybrid anyway. It uses a ton of 1 gap 34 principles already. Building for a 34 would just streamline those principles with the personnel.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
then you haven't watched denver lately. further, why are you talking about champ bailey and DRC when i specifically brought up safeties? deliberate dishonesty, or when you re-typed 'safeties', were you just not sure what that actually meant?
I'd take the sum total of the Denver DBs over the 49ers DBs. The cornerbacks are clearly superior, and if you want to to talk about safeties specifically, let's see.. Donte Whitner (a scrub) and guys vs. Rahim Moore and other guys? Even with that awful playoff performance I'll take Moore over Whitner, and the other guys are a wash.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
well, i didn't say "safeties" just for kicks. rahim moore was mediocre at best, all year. he's incapable of playing fs in the nfl. and that has nothing to do with the playoffs. but then, i watched the broncos, so *shrug*
I watched both the Broncos and the 49ers last year, and while Dashon Goldson was legit, Donte Whitner is the worst DB on the 49ers, and that entire bunch isn't all that talented.

Rahim Moore > Whitner, and the 49ers dont have any other safeties that I see with any talent up-and-coming.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,254
Reputation: 4191549
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
and he'll lose quickness/speed. again, why try to fix what isn't broken?



look at houston's personnel. it was actually well suited to their defense. ours isn't.



our DEs are not built to play in that role. ayers would be ok, but we might as well cut wolfe tomorrow. so we now need to replace nearly the entire DL (which isn't speaking to the depth, which absolutely doesn't fit into the front seven change), and we need more linebackers.
If you gain it the right way, you won't lose any speed. Look at DeMarcus Ware. He packed on a solid 10 to 15 lbs since his rookie year and is still a bullet.

I can't speak for your depth, so I'll stand corrected on that. But I don't think Wolfe will really see any difference. You'll just shade him in a little. He's not setting the edge, he'll play the RG's outside shoulder. Or if the beef on the strong side is too much for him you can always move him to the RE position which he essentially plays on passing downs anyway.

It can be a slow transition to a 3-4. It's really not all that different anymore. Everyone runs 1 gap now. The difference btw a 4-3 over and a 1 gap 3-4 is basically standing up both your edge rushers instead of having your weakside rusher in a 3 point stance. It's really the same ****. Especially since you play Von as a Joker anyway.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
G Mobile
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: niel89 on the go!
Posts: 613
Reputation: 147946
G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Detroit's defense over SF's is a joke. You can twist whatever justification you think works but it still is silly. SF was #2 in points; Detroit was #27. Right now Justin Smith is still a top level DL. He had 1 year of injuries he played through in forever. I doubt he will be injured every week like you make it sound. The rest of the DL is solid at best which is fine for a 3-4.

SF has the best LBs in the league and they make a huge difference. They are the stars. Willis and Bowman are the top ILB in the league and Alton is a great young rusher. Brooks is good but not great like the others. You act like these guys dont matter and DL is the only part that matters. Putting Detroit's defense in the same conversation is a joke. It just doesn't match reality.
G Mobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Mobile View Post
Detroit's defense over SF's is a joke. You can twist whatever justification you think works but it still is silly. SF was #2 in points; Detroit was #27. Right now Justin Smith is still a top level DL. He had 1 year of injuries he played through in forever. I doubt he will be injured every week like you make it sound. The rest of the DL is solid at best which is fine for a 3-4.
I'm projecting into the future.

I want the defense with the more elite players at harder to replace/find positions.

The thing that made SF so great was Justin Smith was the best 3-4 DE in the entire game the past two years. Will he be this way for the next 2+ years? Highly, highly doubtful at his age.

Ndamokung Suh and Nick Fairley were two of the best 4-3 DTs in the game last year, and because of their youth they can get even better. Will they be the best DT tandem in the entire game in the next 2+ years? I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Secondaries are easy to rebuild, especially when you have a dominant D-Line. Find a 5'11"-6'2" guy who is 205lbs and can run and flip his hips. You can find guys like that throughout the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. You can find free agents like that. Look at the Super Bowl teams of the past 20 years and their CBs and safeties and how they were acquired.

Quote:
SF has the best LBs in the league and they make a huge difference. They are the stars. Willis and Bowman are the top ILB in the league and Alton is a great young rusher. Brooks is good but not great like the others. You act like these guys dont matter and DL is the only part that matters. Putting Detroit's defense in the same conversation is a joke. It just doesn't match reality.
SF has the best ILBs in the league, and ILB is the least relevant position on the field on defense.

Aldon Smith's production relies alot on Justin Smith holding Guards on stunts. I have yet to see if Aldon Smith can produce without Justin Smith, and he certainly didn't last year when Justin Smith went down.

So I"ll concede that Aldon Smith looks like a good player, but I"m definitely not sold on elite potential there just yet.

Outside of that, there's not much. And again, ILBs are great but if you can't cover with your secondary and your DLIne up front isn't generating pressure, they don't matter at all. Look at Patrick Willis and navarro Bowman in the last 4-5 games in 2012 and the postseason. Giving up tons of yards and points even with those two guys on the field because the DLine wasn't dominating, and the coverage in the back was getting exposed.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
G Mobile
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: niel89 on the go!
Posts: 613
Reputation: 147946
G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

all parts of the defense need to work for it to funciton. The Lions have 2 good DTs and that's it. They still need LBs and an entire secondary. You can act like it's easy to find quality secondary players but I doubt Detroit has it sorted in 2 year. Detroit just isn't the same quality as SF at all and I really doubt it changes in the near future at all.
G Mobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 622
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
I'm projecting into the future.

I want the defense with the more elite players at harder to replace/find positions.

The thing that made SF so great was Justin Smith was the best 3-4 DE in the entire game the past two years. Will he be this way for the next 2+ years? Highly, highly doubtful at his age.

Ndamokung Suh and Nick Fairley were two of the best 4-3 DTs in the game last year, and because of their youth they can get even better. Will they be the best DT tandem in the entire game in the next 2+ years? I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Secondaries are easy to rebuild, especially when you have a dominant D-Line. Find a 5'11"-6'2" guy who is 205lbs and can run and flip his hips. You can find guys like that throughout the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. You can find free agents like that. Look at the Super Bowl teams of the past 20 years and their CBs and safeties and how they were acquired.



SF has the best ILBs in the league, and ILB is the least relevant position on the field on defense.

Aldon Smith's production relies alot on Justin Smith holding Guards on stunts. I have yet to see if Aldon Smith can produce without Justin Smith, and he certainly didn't last year when Justin Smith went down.

So I"ll concede that Aldon Smith looks like a good player, but I"m definitely not sold on elite potential there just yet.

Outside of that, there's not much. And again, ILBs are great but if you can't cover with your secondary and your DLIne up front isn't generating pressure, they don't matter at all. Look at Patrick Willis and navarro Bowman in the last 4-5 games in 2012 and the postseason. Giving up tons of yards and points even with those two guys on the field because the DLine wasn't dominating, and the coverage in the back was getting exposed.

Yes it is harder to find a GREAT DT or DE... but saying you can find a CB or S anywhere is ridiculous. Ed Reed, Deion Sanders, Bob Sanders, Troy Polamalu etc... Look at all the busts or disapointments when it comes to drafting CBs and Safties, its not AS hard to find a good/great CB as a DT or DE but its not as easy as say a LB or WR.
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
Yes it is harder to find a GREAT DT or DE... but saying you can find a CB or S anywhere is ridiculous. Ed Reed, Deion Sanders, Bob Sanders, Troy Polamalu etc... Look at all the busts or disapointments when it comes to drafting CBs and Safties, its not AS hard to find a good/great CB as a DT or DE but its not as easy as say a LB or WR.

Look at the Super Bowl teams's defenses the past 10+ years.

How many had great DBs? You can build a championship-caliber defense with 2nd and 3rd round and later DBs pretty easily

Without elite front four guys, it's harder to build that kind of championship defense.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 622
Reputation: 46766
Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Denver Bronco56 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Look at the Super Bowl teams's defenses the past 10+ years.

How many had great DBs? You can build a championship-caliber defense with 2nd and 3rd round and later DBs pretty easily

Without elite front four guys, it's harder to build that kind of championship defense.
NO DOUBT! on both sides of the ball you build from the line out... BUT you mentioned over the past 20 years how many SB winning teams had ELITE DBs and there are quite a few that had HOF type players in the secondary, and did they benefit from playing with a great front 7?...OF COARSE, but still it is not like a 3rd rounder is going to be the next champ bailey or deion sanders, DBs like every position have players that are flat out better and they are 1st round picks
Denver Bronco56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 03:08 PM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,705
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

1. Suggesting Von Miller change his game after he had a DPOY esque performance is ridiculous. The Broncos use him well.

2. Broncos secondary is solid if the front 7 holds the fort down. Talk about losing Dumervil, but he was nowhere in that Ravens game. 2 false starts, no pressure. Yeah.

3. Broncos weakness was LB until they got rid of Mays starting. Yes teams had some success, but they dominated most of the season once the team gelled together.
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
king2am
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 957
Reputation: 72652
king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.king2am is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
I'm projecting into the future.

I want the defense with the more elite players at harder to replace/find positions.

Ndamokung Suh and Nick Fairley were two of the best 4-3 DTs in the game last year, and because of their youth they can get even better. Will they be the best DT tandem in the entire game in the next 2+ years? I wouldn't be surprised at all.

SF has the best ILBs in the league, and ILB is the least relevant position on the field on defense.

Aldon Smith's production relies alot on Justin Smith holding Guards on stunts. I have yet to see if Aldon Smith can produce without Justin Smith, and he certainly didn't last year when Justin Smith went down.

So I"ll concede that Aldon Smith looks like a good player, but I"m definitely not sold on elite potential there just yet.

Outside of that, there's not much. And again, ILBs are great but if you can't cover with your secondary and your DLIne up front isn't generating pressure, they don't matter at all. Look at Patrick Willis and navarro Bowman in the last 4-5 games in 2012 and the postseason. Giving up tons of yards and points even with those two guys on the field because the DLine wasn't dominating, and the coverage in the back was getting exposed.
There are some real issues here, and i'm beginning to think that njx9 is right - you have some agenda against SF.

But, I will play.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but we got hung up on SF's D due to power rankings, and how their defense was not "elite". Then Detroit was used as a comparison, and now this has turned into a FORECAST of what the defenses will be like in 2-3 years, and that's why you're taking Detroit.

Which is still silly. What Suh and Fairley do as a pair for the Lions, Willis and Bowman do ten-fold for SF.

Throughout all of this back and forth you are so quick to dismiss those two because they play inside backer. And, as you put it, "ILB is the least relevant position on the field on defense".

For the 49ers this couldn't be further from the truth. Those two are on the field every down - they draw coverage responsibilities that most teams give to their safeties - and they do it on purpose, it's not a mistake with personnel groupings.

And if Detroit's D is so close, and they have such a dominating presence up front - why in the hell did they miss the playoffs with an offense like that? If their defense was half as good as what you're selling here they would have been in the dance, not watching.

With the way the league has gone with the passing game anyway, the 49ers rarely trot out their base defense anymore. They play 4-3 looks with Aldon and Ahmad at "end" and Justin and Ray at "tackle" Which is certainly a better 4 man front than what the Lions put out there.

I also love the "aldon smith looks like a good player" which of his 33.5 sacks gave you that impression. Oooohh, I forgot, Justin Smith held the entire offensive line on all of those...because the 49ers are the only team that runs that stunt? How come there aren't more olb's with numbers like Aldon?

just. stop.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
It's called Karma for all the years with Montana and Young.
king2am is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
G Mobile
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: niel89 on the go!
Posts: 613
Reputation: 147946
G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.G Mobile is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The Lions just don't have the pieces. They have 2 great DTs and that's it. They will get better in 2-3 years but the still need a lot of players.
G Mobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,200
Reputation: 2050333
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Secondaries are easy to rebuild, especially when you have a dominant D-Line. Find a 5'11"-6'2" guy who is 205lbs and can run and flip his hips. You can find guys like that throughout the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. You can find free agents like that. Look at the Super Bowl teams of the past 20 years and their CBs and safeties and how they were acquired.
Yup, I mean look at that Mega-Stud New England secondary with tall, fluid, fast guys that meet that criteria like Darius Butler, Brandon Meriweather, Patrick Chung, Ras-I-Dowling, Tavon Wilson, and Jonathan Wilhite. Explains why nobody has been able to pass on us.
cmarq83 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 07:50 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
Yup, I mean look at that Mega-Stud New England secondary with tall, fluid, fast guys that meet that criteria like Darius Butler, Brandon Meriweather, Patrick Chung, Ras-I-Dowling, Tavon Wilson, and Jonathan Wilhite. Explains why nobody has been able to pass on us.
If Bill Belichick had bothered investing in pass rushers in the draft prior to last year (for the first time in a long time), that defense would have been a top-10 unit against the pass.

It's not really the secondary that's the problem as much as the complete lack of pass rushers. No secondary can cover without a pass rush.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
clearly you didn't, but good story. rahim moore has neither talent, nor is he up-and-coming. but hey, mike adams is a stud, right?

it's clear you have an agenda. if you really want to believe that san francisco is that bad, by all means, feel free.
Rahim Moore is still better than Donte Whitner. None of the 49ers current DBs are as good as Champ Bailey, Rahim Moore, Chris Harris, or even Domonique Rodgers Cromartie.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:10 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,200
Reputation: 2050333
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
If Bill Belichick had bothered investing in pass rushers in the draft prior to last year (for the first time in a long time), that defense would have been a top-10 unit against the pass.

It's not really the secondary that's the problem as much as the complete lack of pass rushers. No secondary can cover without a pass rush.
Although I do appreciate your half-assed analysis of my team to go along with your half-assed analysis of every other team, the pass rush didn't cover or expose the secondary. It was pretty much league averagely mediocre. The inability of any of those guys to play man coverage or functionally track the ball once it was in the air was pretty apparent on its own.
cmarq83 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i have absolutely no idea why you're having such a hard time with "safeties", but in case you just really don't know, none of the bolded guys play that position.
My point was initially comparing the entire secondaries.

But anyway, even without the CBs, the Broncos Safeties are superior right now to what hte 49ers have. I'll take Rahim Moore over Donte Whitner or anyone else on that 49ers roster.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30152
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
Although I do appreciate your half-assed analysis of my team to go along with your half-assed analysis of every other team, the pass rush didn't cover or expose the secondary. It was pretty much league averagely mediocre. The inability of any of those guys to play man coverage or functionally track the ball once it was in the air was pretty apparent on its own.
See, you just think that these guys can't cover. No DB can cover forever. Put Darelle Revis on a team with a bad pass rush and he'll give up completions.

On the other hand, look at the 49ers DBs. Not a single elite talent among them, but they had a great defense due to the dominating pass rush. Look at the New York Giants in the 2011 playoffs. None of their DBs was an elite talent, but because of their pass rush, it turned them into respectable cover guys.

I guarantee you if the Patriots develop at least 2 good to elite pass rushers, those scrub DBs you watched the past two years will magically look like good cover players.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Our secondary were awesome in 2011. Rolle and Phillips were one of the best safety duos in the league, Webster was an excellent #1 and Prince was very talented #2.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
Ness
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 20,583
Reputation: 2198072
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
See, you just think that these guys can't cover. No DB can cover forever. Put Darelle Revis on a team with a bad pass rush and he'll give up completions.
The Jets haven't had a legitimate pass rush the majority of Revis' tenure with the Jets and he still gets it done. Obviously a defensive back can't cover a receiver forever, but Revis is the closest you can probably get as we've seen.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.