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Old 04-03-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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I'm fine with star. But I just don't see him falling. I want Rhodes. He just fits what schiano wants at cb.

Just hope we steer clear from Revis. Too heavy price wise.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Trade down plus Blount mock.

1. Desmond Trufant CB Washington
We trade Blount and the 13th pick to the Rams for their 1st (16) and 3rd rounder.

2. Margus Hunt DE SMU
Both starting DE's have injury concerns, we have showed some interest in Hunt and I think he is the best DE left on the board when we pick in the 2nd.

2. Gavin Escobar TE SDSU
We use our 3rd and a 4th to move back up into the 2nd round to secure our starting TE.

3. John Jenkins DT Georgia
He's a space eater, will fit in nicely on run downs.

4. Tharold Simon CB LSU
We take the LSU CB without the nickname, lacks elite speed but he's a big physical corner that Schiano seems to prefer.

5. Gerald Hodges OLB Penn St.
A New Jersey kid who was productive at Penn St., just seems like a Schiano guy to me.

6. David Quessenberry OT San Jose St.
We've shown interest and need to add some depth on the oline. From what i've read he can play either RT or fill in at OG if needed.

6. Chris Jones DT Bowling Green
He's a sleeper pick. Small school guy, can rush the passer.

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Old 04-04-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
brasho
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Originally Posted by kBuc5 View Post
Trade down plus Blount mock.

1. Desmond Trufant CB Washington
We trade Blount and the 13th pick to the Rams for their 1st (16) and 3rd rounder.

2. Margus Hunt DE SMU
Both starting DE's have injury concerns, we have showed some interest in Hunt and I think he is the best DE left on the board when we pick in the 2nd.

2. Gavin Escobar TE SDSU
We use our 3rd and a 4th to move back up into the 2nd round to secure our starting TE.

3. John Jenkins DT Georgia
He's a space eater, will fit in nicely on run downs.

4. Tharold Simon CB LSU
We take the LSU CB without the nickname, lacks elite speed but he's a big physical corner that Schiano seems to prefer.

5. Gerald Hodges OLB Penn St.
A New Jersey kid who was productive at Penn St., just seems like a Schiano guy to me.

6. David Quessenberry OT San Jose St.
We've shown interest and need to add some depth on the oline. From what i've read he can play either RT or fill in at OG if needed.

6. Chris Jones DT Bowling Green
He's a sleeper pick. Small school guy, can rush the passer.
I like Trufant a ton... but if we drafted Hunt and he doesn't work out, Dominik and co. need to be fired. He's 26, with bad tape, didn't look good at all at the Senior Bowl, tha would be a wasted pick.

Escobar... there's guys comparable much later that wouldn't require moving up or trading picks (McDonald, Lucas Reed, Sudfield).

Can you imagine Jenkins TRYING to pass the conditioning test? Won't happen. Small, undersized DTs with great motors need apply only.

Hodges doesn't run well enough. The Bucs like their LBs to be able to really run. See who the drafted last season (both ran under 4.65), look at the free agents they picked up, all can run. Hodges runs okay, but not well enough for the Bucs.

Quessenberry? Round 6? Sure, if he is there. He's way too good to be lasting til round 6.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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No trade (Revis or anybody) mock:

1) DT Sheldon Richardson-iimprove the secondary by getting to the QB. Great idea. Worked wonders for the Bucs of old.

2) LB Khaseem Green-MLB of the present and future. Foster switches to Sam

3) CB Tyrann Mathiau-he'll start in the slot, maybe make his way outside, definitely return kicks.

4) CB DJ Hayden-Peaked his head in Mayock's top 5 CBs but previous condition has him sliding down draft boards. Bucs love his potential and gladly take the risk in round 4.

4) TE Vance McDonald-the best TE that nobody is projecting highly. Good size, good speed, good athleticism.

5) OT David Quesenberry-Hopeful thinking that he'll make it out of round 4. But he can be a quality player along an NFL OL.

6) DE Quantarrus Smith-Sack machine going hot and heavy until he blew his ACL late. May need a redshirt year with Bucs.

6) WR Mark Harrison-Schiano knows him, he's big, he can run. He COULD work the slot or he could split out wide. They could call him a TE. I also thought about Rice's WR Sam McGuffie to come in and be a slot WR only.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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I like Trufant a ton... but if we drafted Hunt and he doesn't work out, Dominik and co. need to be fired. He's 26, with bad tape, didn't look good at all at the Senior Bowl, tha would be a wasted pick.

Escobar... there's guys comparable much later that wouldn't require moving up or trading picks (McDonald, Lucas Reed, Sudfield).

Can you imagine Jenkins TRYING to pass the conditioning test? Won't happen. Small, undersized DTs with great motors need apply only.

Hodges doesn't run well enough. The Bucs like their LBs to be able to really run. See who the drafted last season (both ran under 4.65), look at the free agents they picked up, all can run. Hodges runs okay, but not well enough for the Bucs.

Quessenberry? Round 6? Sure, if he is there. He's way too good to be lasting til round 6.
Hunt is raw, but he is a freak athlete with a lot of upside. He's got some bust potential for sure though. But with our need for pass rush I'll stand by this pick.

Think there is a small drop off at TE after Escobar, very possible we take a guy like McDonald in the third/fourth but I can see us trading up for Escobar or Ertz also.

As far as Jenkins maybe he's the wrong type of DT we are looking for, not sure. I know that stoping the run is a top priority in Schiano's defense and assume we take a guy that can clog up the middle on run downs. And if Donald Penn can pass the conditioning test I don't see why Jenkins couldn't.

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Old 04-04-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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No trade (Revis or anybody) mock:

1) DT Sheldon Richardson-iimprove the secondary by getting to the QB. Great idea. Worked wonders for the Bucs of old.

2) LB Khaseem Green-MLB of the present and future. Foster switches to Sam

3) CB Tyrann Mathiau-he'll start in the slot, maybe make his way outside, definitely return kicks.

4) CB DJ Hayden-Peaked his head in Mayock's top 5 CBs but previous condition has him sliding down draft boards. Bucs love his potential and gladly take the risk in round 4.

4) TE Vance McDonald-the best TE that nobody is projecting highly. Good size, good speed, good athleticism.

5) OT David Quesenberry-Hopeful thinking that he'll make it out of round 4. But he can be a quality player along an NFL OL.

6) DE Quantarrus Smith-Sack machine going hot and heavy until he blew his ACL late. May need a redshirt year with Bucs.

6) WR Mark Harrison-Schiano knows him, he's big, he can run. He COULD work the slot or he could split out wide. They could call him a TE. I also thought about Rice's WR Sam McGuffie to come in and be a slot WR only.
Our CB situation would most likely have to be addressed in round 2. Without a revis deal, we definately need to improve both the DT and CB position.

To me, I don't think Schiano's scheme values a high end NT. Just someone who can eat up blocks next to McCoy and bring in a pass rush DT on 3rd downs.

I see us going:

1st: Rhodes
2nd: DT: Jessee Williams? Kawan Short?
3rd: CB
4th thru 7th: BPA. Most likely TE, OL, DL, WR.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Hunt is raw, but he is a freak athlete with a lot of upside. He's got some bust potential for sure though. But with our need for pass rush I'll stand by this pick.

Think there is a small drop off at TE after Escobar, very possible we take a guy like McDonald in the third/fourth but I can see us trading up for Escobar or Ertz also.

As far as Jenkins maybe he's the wrong type of DT we are looking for, not sure. I know that stoping the run is a top priority in Schiano's defense and assume we take a guy that can clog up the middle on run downs. And if Donald Penn can pass the conditioning test I don't see why Jenkins couldn't.
Hate to break this to you but unless he's playing in shorts and tennis shoes, Margus Hunt is terrible. He's 26 years old and was a slightly better than average player in C-USA. He stunk it up at the Senior Bowl because he doesn't play with enough leverage, twitch, or technique. If he were 20-21 with his physical attributes and bad tape, I might say he is worth the risk in round 2... but he's 26. By the time he figures things out he'll be into his 30's. I don't care what he runs, what he lifts, or anything else he does, he was by far the worst of the lot of DEs at the Senior Bowl and considering his advantage of having 4-5 years of physical maturity on every player he played against in college, he still didn't do very well.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Hate to break this to you but unless he's playing in shorts and tennis shoes, Margus Hunt is terrible. He's 26 years old and was a slightly better than average player in C-USA. He stunk it up at the Senior Bowl because he doesn't play with enough leverage, twitch, or technique. If he were 20-21 with his physical attributes and bad tape, I might say he is worth the risk in round 2... but he's 26. By the time he figures things out he'll be into his 30's. I don't care what he runs, what he lifts, or anything else he does, he was by far the worst of the lot of DEs at the Senior Bowl and considering his advantage of having 4-5 years of physical maturity on every player he played against in college, he still didn't do very well.
I agree with this. That's why it pains me to tell u that we brought him in for a visit. Please Dom do not draft him in round 2. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Regarding Hunt, terrible is a pretty ridiculous thing to say. You bring up some legitimate concerns about his age and technique. Physically he can step right in, he will command double teams from the start. I don't know how coachable he is or how long it takes him to pick up a pro defense, that could be a problem. Personally I think he's going to be a beast.

Speaking of fits, Sheldon Richardson's value is as a UT not a NT. If we take a DT in the first it will be Loutelei.

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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No trade (Revis or anybody) mock:
3) CB Tyrann Mathiau-he'll start in the slot, maybe make his way outside, definitely return kicks.

4) CB DJ Hayden-Peaked his head in Mayock's top 5 CBs but previous condition has him sliding down draft boards. Bucs love his potential and gladly take the risk in round
Really like the draft, I'm really starting to like Mathueau if he cleans up his act maybe he can ease the pain of losing Ronde after next season. I know he is short but he makes up with it with feisty-ness.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Regarding Hunt, terrible is a pretty ridiculous thing to say. You bring up some legitimate concerns about his age and technique. Physically he can step right in, he will command double teams from the start. I don't know how coachable he is or how long it takes him to pick up a pro defense, that could be a problem. Personally I think he's going to be a beast.
The one thing I like about Hunt is I believe he has like 14 blocked field goals during his college career, that's ridiculous also that freaking wingspan of a 747 (82") but also I am sure he has been told from the moment he started playing college football to play low and he still has not. This could be concerning because NFL OL will eat him alive but maybe the right situation he can be brought along slowly, however I think he will be drafted in the late 1st.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Do none of you realize we currently have 1 QB on our roster?

Whether you like it or not, Tampa will be drafting a QB this year. Where in the draft remains to be seen, but it will happen. They arent going to pick up TWO slobs in FA. (Leinart, Clemens, etc.)

I have a feeling EJ Manuel might be headed to Tampa.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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w/Revis Tampa most likely goes
1. DT/DE
2.CB
3. TE/QB
4. QB/TE

and so on...

w/o Revis Tampa goes:
1.CB
2.DT
3.QB/TE
4.TE/QB

and so on...
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Do none of you realize we currently have 1 QB on our roster?

Whether you like it or not, Tampa will be drafting a QB this year. Where in the draft remains to be seen, but it will happen. They arent going to pick up TWO slobs in FA. (Leinart, Clemens, etc.)

I have a feeling EJ Manuel might be headed to Tampa.
A lot will depend on the Revis trade and what picks we give up. If we give up picks next year then yea we take a QB fairly early this year, 2nd - 4th round. If we give up a first this year then I think we take a QB next year if Freeman fails. If a trade doesn't happen we take a QB next year.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, next year seems to be much more promising at QB. But for depth reasons I think the Bucs draft a QB this year either way. even if its in the 6-7th rds
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:39 AM    (permalink
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Regarding Hunt, terrible is a pretty ridiculous thing to say. You bring up some legitimate concerns about his age and technique. Physically he can step right in, he will command double teams from the start. I don't know how coachable he is or how long it takes him to pick up a pro defense, that could be a problem. Personally I think he's going to be a beast.

Speaking of fits, Sheldon Richardson's value is as a UT not a NT. If we take a DT in the first it will be Loutelei.
What makes you think he would command a double team in the pros if he was getting dominated in all phases of the Senior Bowl practices and game?

BTW, with being 26, his physical ceiling is set, he is what he is... and what he is is a 26 year old, fully grown, almost completely physically matured athlete that played against 19-22 year old baby RTs (when compared to him), who for the most part will be doing something far different than playing football after they leave college. The guys that he'll face in the pros are significantly better than the young men that dominated him at the Senior Bowl.

I put his value as a 4th rounder. His impressive physical package is the one and only reaon he is draftable. His college production was mediocre. His technique and playing strength are severely lacking. He has shown no ability to use his speed as a pass rusher, turn speed into power, or set a hard edge and turn the corner. He's essentially a special teamer that could be used as a situational rusher that has to be freed up to be effective (3-4 teams might be his best fit if they don't mind putting a 6'8 guy out there at OLB, or if any teams are still running the wide 9, he might be okay on the left edge as a 6 tech), and an underpowered 3rd team base DE. People keep talking about him putting on 30 lbs to be a 5-tech, I don't see that. He's not going to be able to put on a lot more good weight at this point (too old) and plays underpowered anyway.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:41 AM    (permalink
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The one thing I like about Hunt is I believe he has like 14 blocked field goals during his college career, that's ridiculous also that freaking wingspan of a 747 (82") but also I am sure he has been told from the moment he started playing college football to play low and he still has not. This could be concerning because NFL OL will eat him alive but maybe the right situation he can be brought along slowly, however I think he will be drafted in the late 1st.
The 14 blocks is impressive which is why I said he would be a core special teamer, that along with his straightline speed. I could actually see a coach trying him out as a gunner on the punt team, and if wedges were still legal, the wedge buster on kickoffs. But he won't likely be adding many blocks to his resume in the NFL, the kickers are far better and their trajectories aren't nearly as low as the guys in the C-USA.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:46 AM    (permalink
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A lot will depend on the Revis trade and what picks we give up. If we give up picks next year then yea we take a QB fairly early this year, 2nd - 4th round. If we give up a first this year then I think we take a QB next year if Freeman fails. If a trade doesn't happen we take a QB next year.
Adam Weber takes this as an insult.

I messaged a friend of mine in Afghanastan regarding the same thing. It isn't like the Bucs to tip their hands of what they plan on doing. The last time they drafted a QB they picked up a free agent (Leftwich) to come battle for the starting job. I think it threw the dogs off the scent a little bit (Leftwich, L. McCown, J. Johnson were the QBs on the roster). It makes me wonder if a trade or signing is brewing because having two QBs on the roster is a lot like having one RB.... it makes it obvious a QB pick up is coming... and if it doesn't come before the draft... we've tipped our hand. Teams have at minimum four QBs when they enter camp in July.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of fits, Sheldon Richardson's value is as a UT not a NT. If we take a DT in the first it will be Loutelei.
Richardson's value is as a slanting DT in a 4-3 defense. The NT is the Bucs' scheme is not a true 0-technique NT, he plays a 1-technique, and other than in goal line situations, will never line up head up over the OC. Booger McFarland was an ideal fit as a 3-tech coming out of college and yet he played 1-tech most of his career with the Bucs. The reason why is that for the most part, the skillsets are the same. Quickness, explosion, and power are the ideal traits for both a 1 tech and a 3 tech.

Also, because McCoy, and most other DTs, often get hurt, it would be nice to have another good option to put at 3-tech if McCoy were to go down. Currently our DTs are McCoy, Derek Landri, Gary Gibson, Corey Irvin, Matt Masfilio, Pep Livingston, and Richard Clebert. After McCoy (Landri and Gibson are the only two on the roster that have EVER started games and they are average), the depth and quality of players is severely lacking. I would have to put DT as much a need as CB. I think there is a very good chance that Richardson, Floyd, or Lotuleilei are higher on the Bucs draft list than Rhodes or Trufant... especially after they keep talking about how deep the CBs are this year.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Richardson's value is as a slanting DT in a 4-3 defense. The NT is the Bucs' scheme is not a true 0-technique NT, he plays a 1-technique, and other than in goal line situations, will never line up head up over the OC. Booger McFarland was an ideal fit as a 3-tech coming out of college and yet he played 1-tech most of his career with the Bucs. The reason why is that for the most part, the skillsets are the same. Quickness, explosion, and power are the ideal traits for both a 1 tech and a 3 tech.

Also, because McCoy, and most other DTs, often get hurt, it would be nice to have another good option to put at 3-tech if McCoy were to go down. Currently our DTs are McCoy, Derek Landri, Gary Gibson, Corey Irvin, Matt Masfilio, Pep Livingston, and Richard Clebert. After McCoy (Landri and Gibson are the only two on the roster that have EVER started games and they are average), the depth and quality of players is severely lacking. I would have to put DT as much a need as CB. I think there is a very good chance that Richardson, Floyd, or Lotuleilei are higher on the Bucs draft list than Rhodes or Trufant... especially after they keep talking about how deep the CBs are this year.
Agree with your point brasho. For how good McCoy was last year, he still was on the field too much compared to other top end DTs. Geno Atkins was the best and he had depth behind him to rotate.

Leaving McCoy exposed to that many injuries is a huge risk, especially with one that can play he 3-tech position.

Guys like Richardson and Floyd in round 1 are options. I have some concerns about Richardson. Will he stay motivated after the contract?

This class is deep at DT, so unless someone like Floyd is there at 13, I see the pick being Rhodes.

Someone like Kawan Short in the 2nd, and guys like Bennie Logan, Jordan Hill, and Akeem Spence in rounds 3 and 4 are also good options.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Richardson's value is as a slanting DT in a 4-3 defense. The NT is the Bucs' scheme is not a true 0-technique NT, he plays a 1-technique, and other than in goal line situations, will never line up head up over the OC. Booger McFarland was an ideal fit as a 3-tech coming out of college and yet he played 1-tech most of his career with the Bucs. The reason why is that for the most part, the skillsets are the same. Quickness, explosion, and power are the ideal traits for both a 1 tech and a 3 tech.

Also, because McCoy, and most other DTs, often get hurt, it would be nice to have another good option to put at 3-tech if McCoy were to go down. Currently our DTs are McCoy, Derek Landri, Gary Gibson, Corey Irvin, Matt Masfilio, Pep Livingston, and Richard Clebert. After McCoy (Landri and Gibson are the only two on the roster that have EVER started games and they are average), the depth and quality of players is severely lacking. I would have to put DT as much a need as CB. I think there is a very good chance that Richardson, Floyd, or Lotuleilei are higher on the Bucs draft list than Rhodes or Trufant... especially after they keep talking about how deep the CBs are this year.
That's why I think Landri was brought in and why I have us taking a run stuffing DT in my mock. I agree they want more pass rush from the NT position but I don't think they want to sacrifice the run defense, that's the top priority in this D. Gibson was pretty good against the run also there's your quality depth.. If you really think about it they are really putting a lot of faith in Bowers and AC with nothing behind them, with their history that's not comforting.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Agree with your point brasho. For how good McCoy was last year, he still was on the field too much compared to other top end DTs. Geno Atkins was the best and he had depth behind him to rotate.

Leaving McCoy exposed to that many injuries is a huge risk, especially with one that can play he 3-tech position.

Guys like Richardson and Floyd in round 1 are options. I have some concerns about Richardson. Will he stay motivated after the contract?

This class is deep at DT, so unless someone like Floyd is there at 13, I see the pick being Rhodes.

Someone like Kawan Short in the 2nd, and guys like Bennie Logan, Jordan Hill, and Akeem Spence in rounds 3 and 4 are also good options.
Unlike CB, I think the depth at DT drops drastically after round 1. Other Kawann Shortt and maybe Sly Williams, there aren't too many guys I like very much outside of Star, Floyd, and Richardson.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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That's why I think Landri was brought in and why I have us taking a run stuffing DT in my mock. I agree they want more pass rush from the NT position but I don't think they want to sacrifice the run defense, that's the top priority in this D. Gibson was pretty good against the run also there's your quality depth.. If you really think about it they are really putting a lot of faith in Bowers and AC with nothing behind them, with their history that's not comforting.
I like Landri... but you do realize that he is a career #3 DT, right? He's started 24 games in 7 seasons. He's a journeyman... and a career backup at that.

As for having run stuffing DTs.... I have a strong feeling (and plenty of evidence) that Schiano likes his DL and LBs the same way Kiffin, Dungy, and Marinelli likes theirs: fast, active, and aggressive. Slow, space eating, "run stuffing" DTs need not apply. THe heaviest DT on the roster last seasson was Gibson at 312... and only two of the six guys listed as DTs weigh over 300: Levingston 292, Masifilo 280, Landri 290, Irvin 295, McCoy 300, and Gibson at 312. If you want to see the kind of DT Schiano prefers... the proof is right there in the pudding. He likes them small, and active, and explosive.

Gibson was okay... but not nearly good enough. If McCoy were to go out over any period of time, we would sport starting DTs of Landri (who's averaged 3.5 starts per season in 7 seasons) and Gibson (who's got 23 starts in 7 seasons). These guys are quality rotational guys but they should not be expected to start and give good results.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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You guys have some great discussion going on in this thread. Been reading a few pages and I'm getting stuff out of it.

But damn man, can one of you take your team in the Forum mock??? One of the last 2 teams remaining w/out an owner. I'd hate giving them to a fan from another team.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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You guys have some great discussion going on in this thread. Been reading a few pages and I'm getting stuff out of it.

But damn man, can one of you take your team in the Forum mock??? One of the last 2 teams remaining w/out an owner. I'd hate giving them to a fan from another team.
Usually I do it, but I've been so busy lately!
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