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Old 04-06-2013, 08:09 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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when I look at the top GMs, I have to go with guys who are established with their teams and have led their teams to sustained success while transitioning from different groups of players. This is what makes great GMs. You cant take a GM who got a crop of good players over a couple years and led his team to short-term success. When he doesnt have the money to re-sign all those players and has veteran players declining, how does he handle that? Can he do a good job of balancing handing out extensions to the players hes drafted, bringing in young talent, and going after FAs? Can he keep his cap number in good shape? Does he understand how to change gears in different years depending on situations? Can he make the tough decisions to not hand out that monster extension to a fan favorite thats not worth it? Will he be smart enough to pay the guy who is worth it? Can he consistently be a good talent evalauator over a long period of time? Can he find late round gems and UDFA who can contribute? Does he understand how to work in unision with his coaching staff, drafting players that work within the scheme his current coaching staff would like to run, and when there are coaching and scheme changes, can he adjust?

It just feels like so many people see this question and think "who has the most talented roster in the NFL?" and theres the answer to the question. I think theres so much more to it than that. The people who think like that are the same people who thought AJ Smith was one of the best GMs 5 years ago.


And to me, without question, Ozzie Newsome sets the bar. Yes, it has a lot to do with a guy named Ray Lewis, but the Ravens' sustained success over the past 15 years has been incredible, and they have had so many different players throughout the years, and he has made so many savvy moves in terms of which players hes kept and which players hes let go, and always keeping a great crop of young player ready to step in. I feel hes done a good job this offseason while facing the difficult task of being up against the cap and having a lot of FAs after winning a SB. If hes really smart, hell convince Ray Lewis to come and take on a role on the coaching staff in the near future. I know hes going into broadcasting for now, but I think he will become a great coach at some point in the future.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Were does Ozzie Newsome rank in all time GMs? He did build 2 completely different super bowl teams. Only Ray Lewis was on both those teams.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Unlike the Seahawks, the 49ers SUCKED for NINE years. Baalke and Harbaugh have completely changed that in their FIRST and SECOND years TOGETHER. I love how you have the Seahawks rated better than the 49ers but yet, we're both rating them above the other for the same reason - because of who our favorite team is.

Objectively -

QB - Kaepernick because to go on a Super Bowl run was amazing and unlike the majority of other 49ers fans, I was one of the few that wanted Kaepernick to stay the starter after the Bears game and never look back. Wilson is great too. I'm actually a fan of his except for when we play each other because I like how he's proved everyone wrong and best out Flynn which I didnt expect at all. If I didnt have Kaepernick, I wouldnt mind Wilson as my QB but prefer Kaepernick because of his size and has better accuracy and arm strength especially when throwing down the field.

RB - Even. Seriously, you cant go wrong with Gore or Lynch.

FB - Miller because considering he was a late round pick and moved to FB (which I was against) after playing DE in a college to become an excellent blocking FB was a steal. Robinson is better now than he was a 49er but unlike Miller, his prime his past and to be honest, I never liked that moron Nolan drafting him.

WR - Even. Crabtree exploded and Harvin is great as well. Both are great receivers but in different ways. After them, I would take Boldin over Rice and whoever else you have at WR. The gem you have is Baldwin.

TE - Davis. Come on. Top 5 TE and just imagine how good he would be if Nolan and Singletary didnt have him blocking all the damn time.

LT - Even. Staley has become a franchise LT as has Okung. Cant go wrong with either.

LG - Iupati. Dont even know who your LG is and honestly, it doesnt matter since Iupati easily better than all of your guards.

C - Unger. I dont care for Goodwin and hope he gets replaced with Barrett Jones. Either way, Unger is damn good and easily better than who plays center for us.

RG - Boone. Again, doesnt matter. An undrafted FA who has become one hell of a steal and seriously, Carpenter, McQuistan, etc. ....give me a break.

RT - Davis. Again, doesnt matter. Giocami or whatever his damn name is. Come on.

K - Not going to attempt to spell his name but its your guy.
P - Lee who is arguably the best punter in the league.

DL - Seahawks. Honestly, the front seven is hard to compare because we run a 3-4 and you run a 4-3 so obviously, players have different roles and assigments in regards to what they're supposed to do. I think that Justin Smith is a great DE, McDonald is solid but NT is our weakness but at the same time time, we barely play our NT. Mebane, Bryant, Irvin plus the two guys you signed give you the edge. Again, the schemes are different but I'll give you three out of four spots on the DL with the exception being Justin Smith.

LB - 49ers. Must admit that I love Wagner and Wright is good too. Again, this becomes complicated because we use four linebackers while you use three. Brooks/Wright could be even but I would take Aldon over Wright and whoever replaces Hill. Would also take Willis and Bowman over Wagner. Three out of four.

CB - Seahawks. While im probably one of the few that likes Browner better than Sherman, both are better than Rogers (who I dislike) and Brown/Culliver.

S - Seahawks. Thomas and Chancellor are better than whoever and Whitner. would love to have Thomas as my FS but oh well.

49ers - QB, FB, WR (second starter), TE, LG, RG, RT, P, DE, OLB (aldon over whoever), ILB, ILB
Seahawks - C, K, DT, DT, DE, OLB (wright over brooks), CB, CB, FS, SS
Even - RB, WR, LT

When you look at it, its basically an even matchup. Me putting Baalke second is because to take my 49ers which were a POS team and turn them into what they are now was truly incredible because at best, I expected 8-8 in 2011 and build for the future.

Either way, whether you're a 49ers fan or Seahawks fan, you have to be happy about your team and think that they're better than the other team.
He isn't comparing teams dude. This is a thread about GM's. He (correctly) pointed out that a lot of our core players are from the old regime. No foul there. Schneider completely built that team. Baalke helped finish our team.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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I love what Reggie McKenzie is doing to the Raiders in completely cleaning house. Does that make him a candidate?
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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I love what Reggie McKenzie is doing to the Raiders in completely cleaning house. Does that make him a candidate?
not til we get some results in raiderland. As a raider fan, I like what hes doing. Thank god he got rid of carson. Love the matt flynn trade. For the most part, I like all the cuts hes making, although I think Michael Huff and DHB are both quality players that were worth keeping around, even if they were a little overpaid. If they were surrounded by so many bad players, I think they would both get more recognition for their abilities. I see them both having big years now that they have signed with legitimate teams (indy and baltimore). But yea hes off to a good start IMO but time will tell with McKenzie. Have to see what he does with his draft picks the next couple years.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Jerry Reese is really underrated. He's the only GM other than Newsome with two SB wins. I put those guys in their own class.

They just have a knack for finding guys who fit into THEIR team system, they just don't select guys rated highly on other team's draft boards.

Baalke inherited the major pieces on that 49ers roster. He still has a lot to prove as a GM.

I think the Skins Bruce Allen is a chucklehead, but he and Mike Shanahan have done an excellent job of flipping the roster since the decade long debacle of Vinny Cerrato, made the monster gamble to get their franchise QB and have the franchise looking up for the first time since Gibbs 2.0.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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I feel the same way about Baalke.


I'm pretty sure you made this pic too :P
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't really see any argument that what Baalke has done has been more impressive. Just based on sheer numbers.

For arguments sake let's just assume each roster right now is equal talent-wise.

Schneider's built the 1a best roster in the league MINUS Unger, Bryant, Mebane, and Hill.

Baalke has built the 1b best roster in the league MINUS Justin Smith, Crabtree, Vernus, Staley, Gore, Goldson, Walker and of course Willis, and Bowman...

He's done a good job no doubt and he was on the staff for a while, but pure GM resume I don't see how it's close.
Just making your argument cyclical...

All of the 49ers players whom you listed that Baalke didn't bring in, were brought in by Scot McCloughan whom is now the Senior player personnel rep for the Seahawks and has been since 2010.

Maybe McCloughan is the genius LOL.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I don't really see any argument that what Baalke has done has been more impressive. Just based on sheer numbers.

For arguments sake let's just assume each roster right now is equal talent-wise.

Schneider's built the 1a best roster in the league MINUS Unger, Bryant, Mebane, and Hill.

Baalke has built the 1b best roster in the league MINUS Justin Smith, Crabtree, Vernus, Staley, Gore, Goldson, Walker and of course Willis, and Bowman...

He's done a good job no doubt and he was on the staff for a while, but pure GM resume I don't see how it's close.
BTW i don't know how i missed this. But Baalke drafted Bowman. 3rd round 2010 (which is Baalke's first draft).
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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I <3 Jerry Reese.

I just trust everything he does. On draft day, I don't ever get nervous. I know Reese got it on lock. Never really question him.

And it's a complete embarrassment that Marc Ross is not a GM yet. Jokes like Phil Emery can become a GM but Marc Ross, Jerry Reese's right hand man during a time when we won 2 SBs, who is a great evaluator of talent can't get a chance? When we just saw like 5 GM openings in the past 2 years?

Absolute joke. I'm not complaining though.
He was to be interviewed by the Jets but he turned them down. His call.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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3) John Schneider (Seahawks)
As a 49ers fan, obviously I wish the Seahawks sucked like the Cardinals do but they dont. Except for the contract given to Flynn which turned into a few late round draft picks, Schneider has done an excellent job as well plus they'll have plenty of cap room to keep their core intact for years to come. The 49ers and Seahawks could become the best in division rivalry this year and for years to come. The talent on the Seahawks is insane. The only negative I see on the Seahawks is the right side of their OL and the second starting OLB opposite Wright. Otherwise, this is a young, stacked team with a lot of cap room and a pain in the ass stadium to play in. The Harvin trade looks great on paper and as long as he doesnt ever become a problem, it should turn out to be a great trade for the Seahawks.
You can thank the man who was responsible for the cap room flexibility for the Seahawks, Jets GM Jon Idzik. :)
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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I know he's new and doesn't really qualify, but what is everyone's impression of current Exec of the Year (and Bill Polian replacement) Ryan Grigson? Does he have a reputation yet?
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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I know he's new and doesn't really qualify, but what is everyone's impression of current Exec of the Year (and Bill Polian replacement) Ryan Grigson? Does he have a reputation yet?
The man who stumbled upon the 1st pick, aka Andrew Luck?

He's made some nice moves admittedly though but its a wait and see thing. Few of his signings in FA are kind of a head scratcher but its wait and see.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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I love what Reggie McKenzie is doing to the Raiders in completely cleaning house. Does that make him a candidate?
Like someone else said results are needed but i agree i love what he's doing. I get the feeling it wont matter though because he wont get enough time to build up the team to actually compete. The new Davis is looking for results now
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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not til we get some results in raiderland. As a raider fan, I like what hes doing. Thank god he got rid of carson. Love the matt flynn trade. For the most part, I like all the cuts hes making, although I think Michael Huff and DHB are both quality players that were worth keeping around, even if they were a little overpaid. If they were surrounded by so many bad players, I think they would both get more recognition for their abilities. I see them both having big years now that they have signed with legitimate teams (indy and baltimore). But yea hes off to a good start IMO but time will tell with McKenzie. Have to see what he does with his draft picks the next couple years.
Exactly, he made the tough moves to gut the roster. Now we have to see how he drafts. He has the next two drafts and then 70 mil in cap space to work with in 2014. That is a GMs wet dream.




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I know he's new and doesn't really qualify, but what is everyone's impression of current Exec of the Year (and Bill Polian replacement) Ryan Grigson? Does he have a reputation yet?
How much did Indy surge off of the Chuck Pagano story? He was handed Andrew Luck. TY Hilton was a great pick though. Had a ton of cap space and used it to fill the roster with solid players, no stars. I'm not sold yet.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:39 AM    (permalink
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I like Nix so much more now that I know he sounds like foghorn leghorn.
You're not the only one.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:44 AM    (permalink
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Jerry Reese ******** on analytics and pretending they don't matter ruins him for me.
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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I'd go my top 10:

1. Newsome
2. Ted Thompson
3. Trent Baalke
4. Jerry Reese
5. Thomas Demetrioff
6. Kevin Coulbert
7. John elway
8. Bill Bellickek
9. Mike Brown
10. Schneider (Carroll has more personell control, but Schneider has made some solid moves as well. He deserves some credit)

Some guys who I think are going to do wonders and have great potential:

-David Caldwell Jax
- John Idzik NYJ
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
ph90702
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Bill Polian knows what he's talking about.
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
Jerry Reese ******** on analytics and pretending they don't matter ruins him for me.
Who needs analytics when the man makes Power. Moves.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ravens1991 View Post
Were does Ozzie Newsome rank in all time GMs? He did build 2 completely different super bowl teams. Only Ray Lewis was on both those teams.
He didn't become GM until after the Ravens won their first Super Bowl.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Jerry Reese ******** on analytics and pretending they don't matter ruins him for me.
You saying Jerry Reese ruins him for you ruins you for me
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Who needs analytics when the man makes Power. Moves.
Can't argue with this.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I don't really see any argument that what Baalke has done has been more impressive. Just based on sheer numbers.

For arguments sake let's just assume each roster right now is equal talent-wise.

Schneider's built the 1a best roster in the league MINUS Unger, Bryant, Mebane, and Hill.

Baalke has built the 1b best roster in the league MINUS Justin Smith, Crabtree, Vernus, Staley, Gore, Goldson, Walker and of course Willis, and Bowman...

He's done a good job no doubt and he was on the staff for a while, but pure GM resume I don't see how it's close.
Your leaving out the most important factor.....he went out and got us Jim Harbaugh. That trumps everything. And for the record, he did draft Bowman.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Jerry Reese is really underrated. He's the only GM other than Newsome with two SB wins. I put those guys in their own class.

They just have a knack for finding guys who fit into THEIR team system, they just don't select guys rated highly on other team's draft boards.

Baalke inherited the major pieces on that 49ers roster. He still has a lot to prove as a GM.

I think the Skins Bruce Allen is a chucklehead, but he and Mike Shanahan have done an excellent job of flipping the roster since the decade long debacle of Vinny Cerrato, made the monster gamble to get their franchise QB and have the franchise looking up for the first time since Gibbs 2.0.
Prediction: the 2012 season is about as good as its gonna get for the Skins. Theyve got a few other nice pieces (Trent Williams, Alfred Morris, Ryan Kerrigan, Orakpo if he comes back strong), but this roster just has too many problems and they have too many cap issues and not enough draft picks. They are gonna finish dead last in the east this year, and probably next year too, prompting Shanahan to get fired. Maybe after that they will succesfully build a team around RG3, if Shanahan doesnt get him killed first. Or maybe RG3 will have to leave the Skins to really become a winner.


Baalke inherited a lot of pieces as a GM, his big move was bringing in Harbaugh, the guy who was able to harness all the talent on that roster. But he has made nothing but savvy moves the last couple years, and has done a great job in working with his coach. Curious to see how AJ Jenkins works out, he didnt see the field last year, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. If he becomes a vertical threat, he will be the missing piece to this offense.


And Ozzie Newsome amazes me. There is never a year where Im not amazed by how well the Ravens drafted. They are always the ones who sit pat and let the guys fall to them, and when they make a move up, its for the guy who was worh it, and at the right price. and when they move down, they get good value and still get good picks. THere isnt a draft that goes by where I dont see several steals made by the Ravens. He started off his GM career by snatching up Suggs, who fell to no. 10 b/c of a slow 40 time, Newsome didnt buy into that mess for a second, and he has continued in that fashion throughout his career with great picks like Haloti Ngata (12), Joe Flacco in the late first round, Ray Rice in the second round, Courtney Upshaw in the 2nd last year, mid-rounders like Bernard Pierce, Dennis Pitta, and Ed Dickson. Great pick-ups like Corey Graham, who filled in nicely for Ladarius Webb (who was a great 3rd round pick). He doesnt overpay players hes drafted that command big FA deals (ex: Paul Kruger)....Also, he was the first black GM, trailblazing the way for guys like Jerry Reese and Reggie McKenzie
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