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Old 04-08-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Arthur Brown is a good prospect and when you re-think the 2013 class it could definitely end up looking like he was worth the 19th pick in retrospect.

But 4-3 teams generally have a hard time taking linebackers in the first round and Reese hasn't invested high picks in LBs in the past.

It's just not a premium position in today's NFL.
I totally agree with you for NYG, you only have to look at where we positionally spend our cap money.

You can't say the same for other 4-3 teams, just look at the Panthers.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Wishful thinking bro. Warmack is going top 10 and Teo will go off the board shortly after we pick 1st round (plus, to play MLB you need to be smart and athletic, and Teo is neither). Logan Ryan is good but is 5'11 and i'm worried he is too small.

First round, i truly think we should trade down and get an extra 3rd round pick or something. Teams behind us all want WRs and we can trade back 5 picks and secure a much needed extra pick. There is no one at 19 that stands out truthfully. If Warmack is there, sure, great- grab him and don't look back. I'm not high on Olgetree, Fluker @ 19 seems like a bad value pick and Desmond Trufant would be the only guy I would consider and I think we can get him even if we trade down.
I think guys will slip and frankly I think some guys have been over analysed. We do view players a little differently than most. This draft is deep, some guys will slip.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Just a few thoughts on Teo

I think he has been over analysed. Lets remember it is all about how he projects as a NFL football player, not who he dates or other crap. Jerry Reese has said as much.

The second factor I'll mention is the teams mentioned to be interested in Teo, the Ravens and Vikings. We all know the Ravens know LBs and the Vikings have Singletary as LB. so if these teams are legitimately interested (and from all reports they are) then perhaps he has genuine ability.

As far as his off-field stuff, we have had success with much more serious issues. I am not on the Teo bandwagon, but I don't get all the hate. If the giants did draft Teo it wouldn't be the end if the world, lets see how he can play.

I do have the feeling that Teo is going to do well in the NFL and all this will be history.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Just a few thoughts on Teo

I think he has been over analysed. Lets remember it is all about how he projects as a NFL football player, not who he dates or other crap. Jerry Reese has said as much.

The second factor I'll mention is the teams mentioned to be interested in Teo, the Ravens and Vikings. We all know the Ravens know LBs and the Vikings have Singletary as LB. so if these teams are legitimately interested (and from all reports they are) then perhaps he has genuine ability.

As far as his off-field stuff, we have had success with much more serious issues. I am not on the Teo bandwagon, but I don't get all the hate. If the giants did draft Teo it wouldn't be the end if the world, lets see how he can play.

I do have the feeling that Teo is going to do well in the NFL and all this will be history.
You mean the same Singletary who wanted Taylor Mays but didn't want Navarro Bowman? lol

While I agree that Teo is being over analyzed i just don't want his personality on this team. He is simple-minded and naive... not what I want from a player expected to lead my defense. I think he is a solid 2nd rounder, but maybe a team with strong leadership on defense to begin with... which we really don't have... Tuck is an awful leader... Rolle is the unofficial captain but he is just a loudmouth sometimes and is not really all-world caliber player either.

I really don't think we need to take an LB till round 3, unless Brown is available. Teo in round 2 wouldn't be a remote thrower but I would be pretty disappointed.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Kenny Vaccaro! That is all...
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Keep being skeptical! Everything you're skeptical about always turns out great. Like the Knicks.

#KnicksIn2013

I'm gonna be wiping my ass on Southbeach with a Knicks towell in the ECF baby!
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He might as well be, being such a negative nancy all the time. He's the Buzz Killington of Knick fans.
Hahaha. We've won a SINGLE PLAY OFF GAME since bringing in Carmelo. Melo is on a hot streak and we're playing well right now. Sadly, Melo is very streaky which is why I do not trust him in the playoffs.

So yes, clearly you're right. We're having great regular season. However, it does not really mean much though.

There's a difference from being negative and objective/realistic. There's also a difference in that I'm not a giant tool as a Knicks fan, which you are. I love you BBD, but there's no denying that you're a massive troll when it comes to the Knicks. You really remind me of some of the worse Cowboys fans I've seen when it comes to this. I've learned not to care or buy into your trolling but do not try to call me out on my Knick fanhood. Even if I do dislike a lot of the players on on our team I will never stop rooting for them.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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BBD's a raging homer, but this year he's justified. The Knicks are going to finals, were we can get retribution on the Spurs for 99!
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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There you go again being Buzz Killington.

Just enjoy the ride man! We're gonna win it all! I'm telling you. I'm so excited. I grew up on the Knicks, they've always been my favorite team, and I think we can do it this year.

I've seen the Giants win 3 SBs in my lifetime (86 doesn't count, I was too young to remember), but I never saw a Knicks championship. This is our year!

Let's bring it home!

#KnicksIn2013
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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I'm souring on Fluker btw. I don't see OT feet. In fact, I question, if he has OL feet period. He's heavy footed. Even Guards need to have quick feet, especially in our offense when we pull so much. He's a road grader, but that's not our style on offense. We need athletic OLmen. The guys who just plow forward doesn't fit our scheme.

Maybe he can be a RT. I don't know yet. I have to look at him more. But he's not a must have to me at 19. He doesn't seem dominant enough for me to be a must have.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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i love this draft. opinion for our guys changes every other day. Even the guys we've soured on, I'd still be fine with at pick 19. We could go OT, OG, DE, LB, DB hell, even DT, and it'd be fine. Because of Reese but also because of this draft and our needs.

Question: When do we begin looking for Eli's successor at QB?
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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I think when he retires. Ride Eli as long as we can. Nowadays qbs start right away, so I'm perfectly fine with riding Eli till he hangs them up, then trading the farm for another franchise qb when the time is right.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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In another 3 or 4 years we can think about drafting a QB to replace Eli.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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I think Eli can play til he's 37 at least. That gives us 6 years. Peyton is 37 and looks like he has 2 more years left in him. I don't see why Eli can't play at least 6 more years.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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I think Eli can play til he's 37 at least. That gives us 6 years. Peyton is 37 and looks like he has 2 more years left in him. I don't see why Eli can't play at least 6 more years.
Yeah I'm just saying we can maybe start to think about it. In reality it would be nice to maybe draft someone in 5 years and sit behind Eli for a year or two even though that never happens. It's really not even on my radar of things to think about with this team.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm just saying we can maybe start to think about it. In reality it would be nice to maybe draft someone in 5 years and sit behind Eli for a year or two even though that never happens. It's really not even on my radar of things to think about with this team.
You think Eli would go for it though?

Even Peyton seemed kind of awkward about the whole Luck thing when people were proposing Luck just sits a year or two.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Would go for it? If we still have Eli playing at Eli level, we're not talking about a top 10 QB pick here. Eli'd be fine having a young guy behind him.

Not like it's his choice either.

Peyton's situation was extremely different
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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What Scotty said. I'm talking about maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a fan of getting 2nd tier qbs and developing them. When we need a qb, I want us to go balls to the walls and go all out and get the best guy available. You don't mess around when it comes to quarterback.

So ride Eli out until he hangs them up, and then get our guy the way we did with Eli, or how Washington did with RGIII. There's no such thing as overpaying for a franchise qb.

I don't like the whole develop a 2nd round qb thing bc that **** never works. It's a shot in the dark, and I rather not do that when it comes to the qb position. For qbs, I like identifying a guy as your guy, then doing whatever you have to do to go get em. If it means giving up a bunch of picks, so be it. It's necessary.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Hard to say without seeing the prospects and such. Plus, you factor in coaching situation. If a new coach wants his system, and that QB doesn't fit it, then you're looking for another QB. So it's hard to forecast these things. I would rather just go with the flow, and play it by ear.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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That's true, but my general philosophy on qbs is this:

If you need a qb, why wouldn't you get the best available qb? Why would you wait until the 2nd round and get a guy who's not as good? This is the qb position we're talking about. You don't go for "value" at qb. You get the best one you can get, period.

In a league that's pretty much decided by quarterbacks, I'm not looking for value at that position. I'm gonna go after a guy who's the best available, and hope he's my guy for the next 15 years. There's no price that's too steep for a guy like that.

When you need a qb, you go out and get the best one you can get. And you shouldn't be afraid to pay the price for it, bc the rewards far outweigh the risk.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
Forenci
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There you go again being Buzz Killington.

Just enjoy the ride man! We're gonna win it all! I'm telling you. I'm so excited. I grew up on the Knicks, they've always been my favorite team, and I think we can do it this year.

I've seen the Giants win 3 SBs in my lifetime (86 doesn't count, I was too young to remember), but I never saw a Knicks championship. This is our year!

Let's bring it home!

#KnicksIn2013
Haha, I am happy with our success, but again I do not see us doing anything. And, even if we do having marginal success, we are SO incredibly old that it's unlikely we'll be able to repeat it. I just cannot take you seriously when it comes to basketball, BBD. Sorry.

As for replacing Eli, I wouldn't mind doing what GF suggested. Down the road, grab a developmental guy in the second or third round and let him sit for a few years. Why not? Worse case the guy sucks and we just do what BBD said and sell the farm for an elite guy anyway.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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I don't like the idea of a young guy sitting behind Eli bc I hate qb competitions. And you know the NY media will have a field day with that as Eli gets older.

I just rather let Eli be Eli, and when he rides off into the sunset let's draft his replacement.

A 2nd round pick is a high investment. I rather spend it on a guy who can help Eli win another ring than his replacement 4 years from the time he retires.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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Haha, I am happy with our success, but again I do not see us doing anything. And, even if we do having marginal success, we are SO incredibly old that it's unlikely we'll be able to repeat it. I just cannot take you seriously when it comes to basketball, BBD. Sorry.

As for replacing Eli, I wouldn't mind doing what GF suggested. Down the road, grab a developmental guy in the second or third round and let him sit for a few years. Why not? Worse case the guy sucks and we just do what BBD said and sell the farm for an elite guy anyway.
We have to nail our draft with some young bodies for depth. Get a big guy and a perimeter guy and we'll be fine. Martin has another year or 2 in the tank, if we get a big to replace Camby (Dieng?) and a quick perimeter PG to replace Kidd/Pergioni/Fatboy, we'll be fine.

You'll believe when we win the championship! They're gonna have to ban me from the NBA thread after we win, bc I'm gonna take the biggest dump in there you've ever seen.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a fan of getting 2nd tier qbs and developing them. When we need a qb, I want us to go balls to the walls and go all out and get the best guy available. You don't mess around when it comes to quarterback.

So ride Eli out until he hangs them up, and then get our guy the way we did with Eli, or how Washington did with RGIII. There's no such thing as overpaying for a franchise qb.

I don't like the whole develop a 2nd round qb thing bc that **** never works. It's a shot in the dark, and I rather not do that when it comes to the qb position. For qbs, I like identifying a guy as your guy, then doing whatever you have to do to go get em. If it means giving up a bunch of picks, so be it. It's necessary.
Well it's workin so far for Seattle and SanFran. I actually agree with you, we should just ride Eli until he's done and trade the farm for the next guy. But I think that maybe with the way the league is tilted in favor of the passing game, it is more possible to get an inexperienced guy with the raw upside and groom him up a bit like Kaep was. And if he's sitting behind Eli instead of Alex Smith he's learning a lot more.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 04-09-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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I'm souring on Fluker btw. I don't see OT feet. In fact, I question, if he has OL feet period. He's heavy footed. Even Guards need to have quick feet, especially in our offense when we pull so much. He's a road grader, but that's not our style on offense. We need athletic OLmen. The guys who just plow forward doesn't fit our scheme.

Maybe he can be a RT. I don't know yet. I have to look at him more. But he's not a must have to me at 19. He doesn't seem dominant enough for me to be a must have.
Fluker is very similar to Kareem McKenzie in my opinion, so I don't see the argument that he doesn't fit our system.

I don't think Fluker will be there when we pick.

Having said that I don't think Fluker is the best option for us at 19
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