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Old 04-17-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Jarvis Jones would be such a waste here.

Jones does not fit what the Buccaneers do on defense at all. He's a 3-4 rushbacker. That's it. Why? Because he lives and dies by the speed rush. He doesn't have enough moves in his arsenal to play defensive end. That's exactly the same reason why Gaines Adams (RIP) was a colossal bust. He can get away with that when he's playing out wide as a 3-4 rushbacker, but NFL caliber tackles with absolutely destroy him if he's playing as a 4-3 end.

Additionally, the Bucs play so much Nickel defense that drafting a SLB in the first round is just a complete waste of a pick... And saying that his coverage skills "aren't there" is a colossal understatement. He sucks out loud in coverage, so there's not a chance in hell that he'll bump Lavonte David or Mason Foster out of that formation (even though the latter isn't anything to write home about in coverage himself).

If we draft Jones and play him at DE, he'll be Gaines Adams 2.0. If we draft him and play him at SLB, we'll be using the 13th pick on a guy who would be lucky to see the field 50% of the time and might get us the occasional sack while doing so, but is going to get burned every single time he drops into coverage... And that's not the type of player you want in a division where he's going to be asked to cover guys like Jimmy Graham and Tony Gonzalez.

I would be absolutely furious if the Bucs drafted him.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Jarvis Jones would be such a waste here.

Jones does not fit what the Buccaneers do on defense at all. He's a 3-4 rushbacker. That's it. Why? Because he lives and dies by the speed rush. He doesn't have enough moves in his arsenal to play defensive end. That's exactly the same reason why Gaines Adams (RIP) was a colossal bust. He can get away with that when he's playing out wide as a 3-4 rushbacker, but NFL caliber tackles with absolutely destroy him if he's playing as a 4-3 end.

Additionally, the Bucs play so much Nickel defense that drafting a SLB in the first round is just a complete waste of a pick... And saying that his coverage skills "aren't there" is a colossal understatement. He sucks out loud in coverage, so there's not a chance in hell that he'll bump Lavonte David or Mason Foster out of that formation (even though the latter isn't anything to write home about in coverage himself).

If we draft Jones and play him at DE, he'll be Gaines Adams 2.0. If we draft him and play him at SLB, we'll be using the 13th pick on a guy who would be lucky to see the field 50% of the time and might get us the occasional sack while doing so, but is going to get burned every single time he drops into coverage... And that's not the type of player you want in a division where he's going to be asked to cover guys like Jimmy Graham and Tony Gonzalez.

I would be absolutely furious if the Bucs drafted him.
If we did draft him to play Sam I am pretty sure he would be on the field close to 100% of the time. Playing Sam on run downs, DE and rush LB in passing situations. I don't think he will be Gaines Adams 2.0. I'm not saying he is a great fit, either, but Adams was a complete dummy that took 6 years out of high school (1 year in prep school, 1 redshirt year, and not until his senior season) to be a productive collegiate DE. He lacked dedication to his craft, was too weak and didn't make the necessary effort to train harder to get stronger, nor did he EVER develop any pass rush moves other than SPEED RUSH TO THE OUTSIDE. I think Jones comes into the NFL already with better pass rush moves than Adams... he does lack Adams' initial burst and size, however. To say he will be a colossal bust... not sure... if he's used right, he could play a Terrell Suggs/Paul Kruger role and eventually come on if he can stay healthy.

He is far down the line of my most coveted players at #13, however...

DT Sheldon Richardson
DT Shariff Floyd
DT Star Lotulelei
DE Ezekial Ansah
CB Dee Milner
CB Xavier Rhodes
CB Desmond Trufant
WR Tavon Austin
TE Tyler Eifert

and then somewhere after these guys... comes Jones.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Am I the ONLY Buccaneers fan on PLANET EARTH that dreams about Jarvis Jones taking over for Quincy Black at SLB? I just can't get over his pass rushing ability and how much of a force he would be on 3rd downs.

While I understand the measurables aren't there this guy DOMINATED the SEC and he LED THE CONFERENCE in sacks. He is STOUT against the run and would give us such a sick trio of linebackers with Mason and Lavonte. I think almost every Buc fan thinks we need to address the pass rush at SOME point this off season and a lot of folks think going with a DE is a poor investment with Adrian & Bowers set to start. Why not plug in a starting linebacker who is a pass rushing specialist but also is a flat out PLAY-M-A-K-E-R.

......with that being said, I don't think it'll happen. But PLEASE, SOMEBODY, hell, ANYBODY tell me they're also going to be a little sad if he's on the board at 13 and we pass? haha

PS - 13 is TOOOO HHIIIGGGHHH for Rhodes. If Dee is gone (which I expect obv.) we shouldn't reach for a corner.....I think that's too high for him. I'd MUCH rather go with Star Louteleli, or Tavon Austin there.
Lots of guys have dominated the SEC in recent memory: Glenn Dorsey, Ahmad Black, most Florida QBs, Mark Ingram, etc... and most of those guys haven't done squat in the NFL. Dominating the nation's best conference is great, but many of these dominant players lack the measurables to dominate, or even compete at a high level in the NFL... Jones could very well be like the others. A lot of how he does in the pros depends entirely on the team selecting him... The Ravens, Steelers, maybe the Patriots could get good use out of him. I don't think he would be a great fit or get the most out of his ability in Tampa.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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If we did draft him to play Sam I am pretty sure he would be on the field close to 100% of the time. Playing Sam on run downs, DE and rush LB in passing situations. I don't think he will be Gaines Adams 2.0. I'm not saying he is a great fit, either, but Adams was a complete dummy that took 6 years out of high school (1 year in prep school, 1 redshirt year, and not until his senior season) to be a productive collegiate DE. He lacked dedication to his craft, was too weak and didn't make the necessary effort to train harder to get stronger, nor did he EVER develop any pass rush moves other than SPEED RUSH TO THE OUTSIDE. I think Jones comes into the NFL already with better pass rush moves than Adams... he does lack Adams' initial burst and size, however. To say he will be a colossal bust... not sure... if he's used right, he could play a Terrell Suggs/Paul Kruger role and eventually come on if he can stay healthy.

He is far down the line of my most coveted players at #13, however...

DT Sheldon Richardson
DT Shariff Floyd
DT Star Lotulelei
DE Ezekial Ansah
CB Dee Milner
CB Xavier Rhodes
CB Desmond Trufant
WR Tavon Austin
TE Tyler Eifert

and then somewhere after these guys... comes Jones.
To be clear, I think he'll be "Gaines Adams 2.0" if he's drafted by a team that intends to use him as a 4-3 DE.

I think that Jones will be an above average NFL player if he lands with a team like the Steelers or Ravens, who can use him as a 3-4 rushbacker, as I believe that is he natural position.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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To be clear, I think he'll be "Gaines Adams 2.0" if he's drafted by a team that intends to use him as a 4-3 DE.

I think that Jones will be an above average NFL player if he lands with a team like the Steelers or Ravens, who can use him as a 3-4 rushbacker, as I believe that is he natural position.
I agree. I think jones is a good player but scheme wise is a poor fit with us.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Looks like were doing a physical today on Revis, I really hope we don't give up our #13 pick for him if we do make a trade with the Jets.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Looks like were doing a physical today on Revis, I really hope we don't give up our #13 pick for him if we do make a trade with the Jets.
According to Ian Rappaport one of the trade specs includes this years #13 pick.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I'm not too upset about the compensation. If it was a 1 and 2, yeah. But its our 1st round pick this year, and 3rd and 5th next year or 3rd and 6th in 2014.

This draft lacks "star/elite talent" up front, so I don't think we would have gotten a top notch talent at 13.

I do think this draft is deep, especially at DLINE, WR/TE, and DB, so in the 2nd and 3rd, we can get a good player at CB and DT/DE in either round.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm not too upset about the compensation. If it was a 1 and 2, yeah. But its our 1st round pick this year, and 3rd and 5th next year or 3rd and 6th in 2014.

This draft lacks "star/elite talent" up front, so I don't think we would have gotten a top notch talent at 13.

I do think this draft is deep, especially at DLINE, WR/TE, and DB, so in the 2nd and 3rd, we can get a good player at CB and DT/DE in either round.
Thank goodness, I thought I read on nfl.com somewhere they were giving up a 1 and a 2.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Schefter just reported it's our 2013 1st rounder and a conditional 2014 4th rounder for Revis.

I don't think he's going to help the defense as much as a lot of Bucs fans think, but I'm not that upset with the trade. Just means the first day of the draft is gonna be boring unless we make a move to trade up like we did for Doug Martin last season.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Congrats TB, you have one hell of a player in Revis !!! He WILL change your defense, you will see. He will be missed in NY.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Bucs fans... Love talking shop with you guys. About the Revis trade... I think a lot of us are upset about the trade in giving up the 13th pick and stepping out of the first round. Because of all the time we've spent in looking at collage guys. So theirs not a lot of excitement on Thursday, but with all that said we as Bucs fans should be doing back flips about who we just traded for. We have by far the best CB in the NFL and a top 5 defensive player in all of football. And then Revis signs a play for pay deal with us which to me speaks. He said to the Bucs... Pay me as the best and the second I'm not you don't have to pay me anymore. Our team just got a lot better.

Also Dom hasn't been perfect, but in the last two off seasons he's signed Vjax, Nicks, Goldson and Wright. Traded for Revis and drafted Martin, David and Barron. That's 7 players that any year could be pro bowlers and Wright who's now 1. not over paid and 2. a #2 Cb which is what he always was.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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I'm excited because a while back I stated if we made a trade for him I would be skeptical because of the guaranteed money involved and his contract while it may be the highest for a DB in NFL history protects us if he gets injured again. Even if we were going to draft a DB in the 1st round nothing is guaranteed when it comes to transition when they do step into the league at least now we have a known commodity. I still think that we need to address our pass rush at some point in the draft but what a difference a year makes!
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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So now that the trade is done and the 13th pick is Revis. DT is by far our biggest need in the draft. Two players that I like for NT are Jesse Williams or Brandon Williams. If he fell in the second round Damontre Moore is someone I would take. If we're looking at getting Free someone Gavin Escobar fits the bill. People are down on his speed but the guy has great hands and body control for the ball. Just seems like one of those guys who knows how to get open. Arthur Brown would look great at SLB. And a long shot but if he fell I would take him in a second would be DJ Hayden.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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So now that the trade is done and the 13th pick is Revis. DT is by far our biggest need in the draft. Two players that I like for NT are Jesse Williams or Brandon Williams. If he fell in the second round Damontre Moore is someone I would take. If we're looking at getting Free someone Gavin Escobar fits the bill. People are down on his speed but the guy has great hands and body control for the ball. Just seems like one of those guys who knows how to get open. Arthur Brown would look great at SLB. And a long shot but if he fell I would take him in a second would be DJ Hayden.
I was thinking the same thing with Jesse Williams and Brandon Williams. You can also put Kawann Short in that group as well,

My Buc only mock:

2) DT Short or one of the Williamses. Datone Jones is a possibility if he falls.
3) TE/DE/CB are our biggest needs... I think we kill two birds with one stone and go for OLB Travardo Williiams of UConn. He'll play Sam on run downs and rush the passer on 3rd down.... maybe Lemonier if he's still there, or Jamie Collins.
4) TE Vance McDonald-Big TE that is a good receiving threat.
4) QB Landry Jones-developmental QB
5) CB Terry Hawthorne-developmental CB with tons of upside
6) WR Denard Robinson/Conner Vernon/TJ Moe/Sam McGuffie-somebody to work the middle of the field. Possibly Mark Harrison.
6) OT Luke Marquardt-developmental OT with big upside.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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I like that Trevardo Williams pick. Would love it better in the 4th not the 3rd.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Forum Mock So far for the Bucs:
1st: Rhodes
2nd: Short
3rd: Lemoneir

Got ourselves a physical lock down CB that can match up with any WR on the field.

Short is disruptive in both the run defense and pass defense.

Lemonier gives us that outside speed rush with a good blend of strength as well. I think he can be a steal and can rush the passer in our 3 man line and stand him up on the outside.
How did the rest of this mock go?

Swith out Rhodes for Revis...Short would be great in round 2. Lemonier...what else? TE? Slot WR? Another CB? Do tell.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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How did the rest of this mock go?

Swith out Rhodes for Revis...Short would be great in round 2. Lemonier...what else? TE? Slot WR? Another CB? Do tell.
Well, bc I wasn't up in time at 11:30 pm ET, they picked Tyler Bray in round 4. Then the rest of them pissed me off.

4th: Bray
4th: Gerald Hodges OLB
5th: Denard Robinson WR /KR Michigan
6th: Levine Tolio TE Stanford
6th: Jawan Jamison RB Rutgers.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:37 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
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Guy I'm starting to look at is Margus Hunt. What do you guys think of him playing inside on the Dline? Him and McCoy would be living in the backfield.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:47 AM    (permalink
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Guy I'm starting to look at is Margus Hunt. What do you guys think of him playing inside on the Dline? Him and McCoy would be living in the backfield.
I think I'm the only one around here that likes Hunt in the second. He's got a lot of upside and the guy has rare size. We need a DE and this draft is not particularly deep at that position so I can see us taking one early.

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Old 04-24-2013, 05:53 AM    (permalink
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Well, bc I wasn't up in time at 11:30 pm ET, they picked Tyler Bray in round 4. Then the rest of them pissed me off.

4th: Bray
4th: Gerald Hodges OLB
5th: Denard Robinson WR /KR Michigan
6th: Levine Tolio TE Stanford
6th: Jawan Jamison RB Rutgers.
I wouldn't mind this, I think all those guys could go a round later with the exception of Bray though.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind this, I think all those guys could go a round later with the exception of Bray though.
I didn't pick bray. I was ticked at that situation.

Anyone see his Gruden qb camp? Wow. That would ten me off on him.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Guy I'm starting to look at is Margus Hunt. What do you guys think of him playing inside on the Dline? Him and McCoy would be living in the backfield.
He plays to high out of his stance, with the right coaching maybe he can learn to get low but at 6'8 it is extremely difficult for him to get that much lower on the inside if he has difficulty doing it on the outside edge. In running situations he will more than likely get eaten alive but on passing downs he would probably be a monster from the DT position but would you draft someone that high to be on the field like a 3rd of the time?
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I didn't pick bray. I was ticked at that situation.

Anyone see his Gruden qb camp? Wow. That would ten me off on him.
I know you didn't, why would you be ticked though? You got us taking a 4th/5th round guy in the second round in your mock and we end up with a top 5 QB in the 4th round in the board mock and you're ticked? You got it backwards man.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I know you didn't, why would you be ticked though? You got us taking a 4th/5th round guy in the second round in your mock and we end up with a top 5 QB in the 4th round in the board mock and you're ticked? You got it backwards man.
Since when is Kawan short a 4th/5th rd guy?
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