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Old 04-19-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I really don't think Ansah is going top 10, I don't think any GM is going to risk his career by taking him that high.

1) he was horrible during the Senior Bowl practices and manhandled by every OT there.
2) during the game he totally dominated but people forget that the playing rules of the Senior Bowl are very restrictive for both the offense and defense and really suit athletic ability over technique, he's never going to see that type of offense at the next level where his athletic ability won't be enough in complicated offenses.
3) he could develop but has a very high bust factor, and if he develops, it will be at least 2 years before he is anywhere near effective. So which NFL team is willing toi wait another 2 years before they can get anything out of this guy.

I think possibly, some team in the 11-17 group will draft him but he could have a really long day at the draft and may not get drafted till late round 1 or even early round 2.
smh. You do realize the rules at Senior Bowl do NOTHING to hold back O-Lineman and nothing to benefit D-Lineman. In fact, if anything, it's the opposite because there's no blitzing, it makes protections that much easier. 1-on-1's is a skill development drill. The fact that you're dismissing what someone did in an actual football game because of how he performed in a specific drill is ******* ridiculous.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Actually, he had 60+ tackles, 14 TFL and 4.5 sacks last year as an interior lineman. That's doing nothing?
He was not just an interior lineman. Ansah was used in several different ways, many times playing outside and even as a rush LB. And he will work as an edge rusher in the NFL. Ansah has one year (actually 9 games) of production and his production is lacking compared to a guy like Damontre Moore, for example, who has two consistent years of good work against better competition. But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

Damontre Moore was a consensus a top 5 pick before the combine anNFd now he's trash because of a 40-yard dash. Just look at the hype Darius Slay is getting and how much Johnthan Banks is being disrespected because of the 40-yard dash. Warmack was the next big thing, best player in the draft and then the crazy hype started to fade after mediocre numbers at the combine. Now people are even saying the faster, more athletic Cooper is the best guard.

All these projections and sudden stock changes I'm talking about come from the media, draftniks and fans. It does not mean NFL teams work this way. Maybe general managers already had Ansah at the top before the media; maybe Ansah is overrated and won't be drafted as high as expected.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
He was not just an interior lineman. Ansah was used in several different ways, many times playing outside and even as a rush LB. And he will work as an edge rusher in the NFL. Ansah has one year (actually 9 games) of production and his production is lacking compared to a guy like Damontre Moore, for example, who has two consistent years of good work against better competition. But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

Damontre Moore was a consensus a top 5 pick before the combine anNFd now he's trash because of a 40-yard dash. Just look at the hype Darius Slay is getting and how much Johnthan Banks is being disrespected because of the 40-yard dash. Warmack was the next big thing, best player in the draft and then the crazy hype started to fade after mediocre numbers at the combine. Now people are even saying the faster, more athletic Cooper is the best guard.

All these projections and sudden stock changes I'm talking about come from the media, draftniks and fans. It does not mean NFL teams work this way. Maybe general managers already had Ansah at the top before the media; maybe Ansah is overrated and won't be drafted as high as expected.
Did Moore spend most of his time on the interior? Also, Moore fell for other reasons than just his 40 time, he had a pathetic bench press and also some bad press about his character. Ansah didn't. I don't discount you point that draft rankings can be very fluid, but again, something simple does not pass my smell test with Floyd. Again, why break him out BEFORE that combine? Why tell us what general managers are thinking at that time? Why keep mocking him to one team that has not shown a great deal of (public) interest? IMO, the Raiders are being used as a placeholder for Jeremiah's boy and he will not go to them.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
smh. You do realize the rules at Senior Bowl do NOTHING to hold back O-Lineman and nothing to benefit D-Lineman. In fact, if anything, it's the opposite because there's no blitzing, it makes protections that much easier. 1-on-1's is a skill development drill. The fact that you're dismissing what someone did in an actual football game because of how he performed in a specific drill is ******* ridiculous.
You do know that the scouts, coaches and GM's all leave before the game is played, and that the game is designed to match up players one on one to test their athletic ability. The OT's get no help from TE's, and the RB's rarely have a clue how to pass block, something they learn with the pros.
Technique at the next level is everything for a successful player, without it, your athletic ability alone, will get you a seat on the bench and on special teams, but will never make you a starter.

Ansah isn't asked to read and react, just attack and blow up what you can no matter what the consequences are. The offense is kept as simple as possible since this guys have only been together for a week and most of the week is spent on drills not actual practice for the game.

Ansah started a whole 4 games in his college career and you expecting him to be a top 5/10 pick off of one exhibition game with simplified rules.

I think you are in for a shock on draft day, Ansah has a huge bust factor given his limited exposure to football and GM's get fired especially for screwing up top 10 picks.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.
It's not all about the workout. Ansah's "wow" plays blow Moore's wow plays away imo. And then the workout #'s just reaffirm that. There are legit excuses for the lack of prodution, but I do totally understand why everyone would want to see more production from Ansah. But it is what it is at this point. The teams go to projecting how they think guys will play at the next level.

I think the current vibe is correct that Ansah will go high, Moore will go lower, and the production #'s won't be the sole deciding factor, as it shouldn't be. Workout #'s shouldn't be the sole deciding factor either, and they are not, there is more to go by with the film.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
He was not just an interior lineman. Ansah was used in several different ways, many times playing outside and even as a rush LB. And he will work as an edge rusher in the NFL. Ansah has one year (actually 9 games) of production and his production is lacking compared to a guy like Damontre Moore, for example, who has two consistent years of good work against better competition. But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

Damontre Moore was a consensus a top 5 pick before the combine anNFd now he's trash because of a 40-yard dash. Just look at the hype Darius Slay is getting and how much Johnthan Banks is being disrespected because of the 40-yard dash. Warmack was the next big thing, best player in the draft and then the crazy hype started to fade after mediocre numbers at the combine. Now people are even saying the faster, more athletic Cooper is the best guard.

All these projections and sudden stock changes I'm talking about come from the media, draftniks and fans. It does not mean NFL teams work this way. Maybe general managers already had Ansah at the top before the media; maybe Ansah is overrated and won't be drafted as high as expected.
You also need to take into consideration that Ansah has been playing football for a couple of years while Moore has probably been playing since he was 8 or 9. Fundamentals and concepts that are well ingrained in the one player are still new to the other.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
You do know that the scouts, coaches and GM's all leave before the game is played, and that the game is designed to match up players one on one to test their athletic ability. The OT's get no help from TE's, and the RB's rarely have a clue how to pass block, something they learn with the pros.
Technique at the next level is everything for a successful player, without it, your athletic ability alone, will get you a seat on the bench and on special teams, but will never make you a starter.

Ansah isn't asked to read and react, just attack and blow up what you can no matter what the consequences are. The offense is kept as simple as possible since this guys have only been together for a week and most of the week is spent on drills not actual practice for the game.

Ansah started a whole 4 games in his college career and you expecting him to be a top 5/10 pick off of one exhibition game with simplified rules.

I think you are in for a shock on draft day, Ansah has a huge bust factor given his limited exposure to football and GM's get fired especially for screwing up top 10 picks.
So explain why every other D-lineman didn't come close to looking like Ansah under the same conditions.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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You also need to take into consideration that Ansah has been playing football for a couple of years while Moore has probably been playing since he was 8 or 9. Fundamentals and concepts that are well ingrained in the one player are still new to the other.
Exactly. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. It's a unique situation, but it's not hard to understand.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
I don't think he'll ever be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL.
For a team to expect that is unrealistic.
I see him bulking up as a run stuffing end, more of a 3-4 type, versatile enough to move around schematically.
- That said, I wouldn't touch him in the first 20 picks.
I'm interested in your reasoning why.

ESPN also did a Sports Science segment on him: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9186590

He had the fastest 10-yard burst of all the d-ends tested this year, even though he was the heaviest - faster even than 2nd-fastest Dion Jordan by almost 2 tenths of a second - that's over just 10 yards. His physical tools are better than any other d-lineman this year, and very consistent with current elite NFL linemen, particularly when you combine his skills with his size.

The on-field improvement he showed over the course of this season was impressive, as well. He's really smart and has picked up the game surprisingly well, considering he'd never played football prior to 2010.

Do you believe Dion Jordan can be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL? Then why not Ziggy, who has very comparable skills and quickness, plus is stronger and 30 lbs heavier?

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Old 04-19-2013, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Simply put, if I'm investing a high, premium draft pick, and premium money into a player that is being drafted solely for the ability to rush the passer, then I want him to have a baseline level of production rushing the passer in college.
So I suppose you're applauding the Eagles for selecting Brandon Graham over Jason Pierre-Paul in 2010.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Read today that he didn't work out for the combine. 0.0
He did. He just didn't go to one of the training centers. He trained at BYU while finishing up classes.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why some of these misconceptions about Ziggy continue to be made.

In 2010 and 2011, Ziggy played almost exclusively at special teams. In 2010 (the first year in his entire life he ever played football - not even touch football) he was trained at outside linebacker. But his 3 tackles that year were, I believe, exclusively on special teams. Remember that during spring practice that year, he had to be taught how to put his pads on. Most players at this level had already played many years of tackle football.

In 2011, the coaches moved him to defensive line, which he had to learn that year, based on personnel and where they thought he could best help the team, if he were to get into a game, other than on special teams. By this year he was a special teams standout, but still learning a new position.

In fall 2012, because BYU was returning four 4-year starters on the d-line (due to missions and injuries). So the coaches moved Ziggy back to outside linebacker - even though they already had emerging star Kyle Van Noy and experienced and capable Spencer Hadley - the thought was to try to work Ziggy into the rotation, particularly on passing downs. He started really catching the coaches' eyes during fall camp, and it looked like he was going to get some significant time in the OLB rotation.

However, BYU's top DE, Eathyn Manumaleuna, went down with an injury in the third game, against Utah. Ziggy started the fourth game, against Boise State. In the first start of his career, Ziggy tied for the team lead with 8 tackles, had a team-leading 6 solo tackles, the team's only sack, and tied for the team lead with 2.5 TFL.

To me, his most impressive play in this game, his first start, a Thursday night game on ESPN, actually came on what turned out to be a fake punt. At the snap, he threw the 240-lb. defender about 5 yards to the side like a rag doll, recognized the fake, and swallowed up the ballcarrier for a loss. Really an impressive play for someone still just learning the game. I think this was when he first started being noticed on a national level, because he seemed to be everywhere in that game, including an instrumental part of a goal-line stand (he had two stops on the goal line).

Two games later, while fighting the flu (he had to sit out a series every once in a while due to nausea) he still managed two sacks, and better stats than BYU's star linebacker, Kyle Van Noy. This game is where he showed another impressive indicator of his grasp of the game - in only the third start of his career. One play, he started his rush, sensed a screen quickly enough to spin out of the, locate the intended receiver, the RB, before the ball was thrown to him, and run him down for a 4-5 yard loss.

Two games after that, he had a nice game in a close loss against a Notre Dame team that would be the #1 ranked team the next day.

The next game, at Georgia Tech, he had another dominant game.

In the bowl game against San Diego State, his teammate, Kyle Van Noy, had one of the best games any defensive player has had in recent memory in a bowl game, which overshadowed another really good game by Ziggy.

I think way too much is being made about Ziggy's struggles in practices leading up to the Senior Bowl. He actually started off the week strong. But then they got into technique-heavy drills, and he did struggle a bit - perhaps it's more accurate to say he didn't dominate as he was expected to.

After getting some advice from his DL coach to stop thinking so much when he gets into the game, while playing alongside Margus Hunt, Ziggy dominated in a game with really good college talent, most of whom are NFL-bound, while Hunt disappeared.

There was a really good feature on ESPN about him yesterday. The comment was made that the progress he made from the third game of the year against Utah, until later in the season against Notre Dame, was remarkable, with regard to playing against double teams. Against Utah, he had some trouble when double teamed. But by the Notre Dame game, he had learned how to use his hands much better and avoid the double teams. Ziggy's learning curve this past year was far steeper than most seniors. You expect seniors to know these sorts of things. But this was really Ziggy's first year playing the position, much less starting. If you're looking at film from earlier in the year, you're seeing a very inexperienced player who has trouble with things like double teams and pass coverage. But the remarkable thing about Ziggy is how quickly he picked it up during the season. He essentially fit four years' worth of experience into a single season.

So, no, there's no guarantee he's going to be a star in the NFL. But his athleticism, particularly for a guy his size, but amazingly even for a guy 30 lbs. lighter than he is, is elite. He's extremely smart, both in baseline intelligence (academic scholarship, major in actuarial science, minor in math - do most NFL draftees even know what a minor is? Or math, for that matter?) and in football IQ (examples are the Boise State fake punt and Utah State screen recognition). He's the most explosive defensive lineman in this year's draft, and you don't even have to say "for his size," as he's comparable to the best of the small defensive ends, even though he's 30 lbs. heavier. And to top it off, he's a relentless, violent, high motor player.

Where are the red flags on him? He's dominated in actual games, he showed elite athleticism in the combine and subsquent workouts, he's really smart, he's had ZERO legal or behavioral issues, and he's shown himself to be extremely teachable and a high character guy. All of the reasonable criticisms I've seen of him involve technique, which can be taught. And you need to consider, that he doesn't have years of bad habits he's developed that need to be overcome. I suppose the only other real criticism of him is that he can get winded later in the game. Okay, so he'll need to work himself into a little better shape.

A lot of guys who are project players are considered projects because they have talent, but perhaps they need a little more size or strength. Or perhaps they have size and strength, but their talent level is not that high, and with experience and technique, they can learn to maximize the talent they have and become a contributor. Ziggy has elite athleticism and speed. What makes anyone think he can't be successful rushing the passer in the NFL? I'd have thought his run defense would be the biggest question. With how much he improved during his only year with significant playing time in organized football, why is it reasonable to assume he's not going to continue to improve? You can look at a guy who's played at a consistent level for 3 years and reasonably assume he's reached his peak. Ziggy's not that guy. Ziggy's improvement was meteoric last season. What makes anyone with half a brain think he's hit his ceiling?

Ziggy's freaking 270 lbs and runs a 4.63 in the 40. His combine 4.63 would have ranked him at # 18 among the running backs at the combine - Oklahoma State RB Joseph Randle (projected to go in round 2 or 3) also ran a 4.63 - at 207 lbs., almost 65 lbs. lighter than Ziggy.

Does this answer the guys who wonder how Ziggy can be a top 10 draft pick without having better "production" in college?

Yeah, I'm sniffing Ziggy's jock. He's the kind of talent that BYU rarely gets, and his story and his talent are amazing. In one year, he's become probably the most beloved BYU player ever. How can I not be optimistic for him? We haven't had a lot of BYU guys to follow in the NFL lately. We're definitely ready for one.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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By the way, yesterday on Sports Center, when asked if Ziggy compares to Jason Pierre-Paul in raw ability, Bill Polian said no - Ziggy's more physical. Polian (who would know) said the better comparison is Bruce Smith, especially in how he converts speed to power.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlueFunk96 View Post
By the way, yesterday on Sports Center, when asked if Ziggy compares to Jason Pierre-Paul in raw ability, Bill Polian said no - Ziggy's more physical. Polian (who would know) said the better comparison is Bruce Smith, especially in how he converts speed to power.
Wow. Hopefully he goes #3.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why some of these misconceptions about Ziggy continue to be made.

In 2010 and 2011, Ziggy played almost exclusively at special teams. In 2010 (the first year in his entire life he ever played football - not even touch football) he was trained at outside linebacker. But his 3 tackles that year were, I believe, exclusively on special teams. Remember that during spring practice that year, he had to be taught how to put his pads on. Most players at this level had already played many years of tackle football.

In 2011, the coaches moved him to defensive line, which he had to learn that year, based on personnel and where they thought he could best help the team, if he were to get into a game, other than on special teams. By this year he was a special teams standout, but still learning a new position.

In fall 2012, because BYU was returning four 4-year starters on the d-line (due to missions and injuries). So the coaches moved Ziggy back to outside linebacker - even though they already had emerging star Kyle Van Noy and experienced and capable Spencer Hadley - the thought was to try to work Ziggy into the rotation, particularly on passing downs. He started really catching the coaches' eyes during fall camp, and it looked like he was going to get some significant time in the OLB rotation.

However, BYU's top DE, Eathyn Manumaleuna, went down with an injury in the third game, against Utah. Ziggy started the fourth game, against Boise State. In the first start of his career, Ziggy tied for the team lead with 8 tackles, had a team-leading 6 solo tackles, the team's only sack, and tied for the team lead with 2.5 TFL.

To me, his most impressive play in this game, his first start, a Thursday night game on ESPN, actually came on what turned out to be a fake punt. At the snap, he threw the 240-lb. defender about 5 yards to the side like a rag doll, recognized the fake, and swallowed up the ballcarrier for a loss. Really an impressive play for someone still just learning the game. I think this was when he first started being noticed on a national level, because he seemed to be everywhere in that game, including an instrumental part of a goal-line stand (he had two stops on the goal line).

Two games later, while fighting the flu (he had to sit out a series every once in a while due to nausea) he still managed two sacks, and better stats than BYU's star linebacker, Kyle Van Noy. This game is where he showed another impressive indicator of his grasp of the game - in only the third start of his career. One play, he started his rush, sensed a screen quickly enough to spin out of the, locate the intended receiver, the RB, before the ball was thrown to him, and run him down for a 4-5 yard loss.

Two games after that, he had a nice game in a close loss against a Notre Dame team that would be the #1 ranked team the next day.

The next game, at Georgia Tech, he had another dominant game.

In the bowl game against San Diego State, his teammate, Kyle Van Noy, had one of the best games any defensive player has had in recent memory in a bowl game, which overshadowed another really good game by Ziggy.

I think way too much is being made about Ziggy's struggles in practices leading up to the Senior Bowl. He actually started off the week strong. But then they got into technique-heavy drills, and he did struggle a bit - perhaps it's more accurate to say he didn't dominate as he was expected to.

After getting some advice from his DL coach to stop thinking so much when he gets into the game, while playing alongside Margus Hunt, Ziggy dominated in a game with really good college talent, most of whom are NFL-bound, while Hunt disappeared.

There was a really good feature on ESPN about him yesterday. The comment was made that the progress he made from the third game of the year against Utah, until later in the season against Notre Dame, was remarkable, with regard to playing against double teams. Against Utah, he had some trouble when double teamed. But by the Notre Dame game, he had learned how to use his hands much better and avoid the double teams. Ziggy's learning curve this past year was far steeper than most seniors. You expect seniors to know these sorts of things. But this was really Ziggy's first year playing the position, much less starting. If you're looking at film from earlier in the year, you're seeing a very inexperienced player who has trouble with things like double teams and pass coverage. But the remarkable thing about Ziggy is how quickly he picked it up during the season. He essentially fit four years' worth of experience into a single season.

So, no, there's no guarantee he's going to be a star in the NFL. But his athleticism, particularly for a guy his size, but amazingly even for a guy 30 lbs. lighter than he is, is elite. He's extremely smart, both in baseline intelligence (academic scholarship, major in actuarial science, minor in math - do most NFL draftees even know what a minor is? Or math, for that matter?) and in football IQ (examples are the Boise State fake punt and Utah State screen recognition). He's the most explosive defensive lineman in this year's draft, and you don't even have to say "for his size," as he's comparable to the best of the small defensive ends, even though he's 30 lbs. heavier. And to top it off, he's a relentless, violent, high motor player.

Where are the red flags on him? He's dominated in actual games, he showed elite athleticism in the combine and subsquent workouts, he's really smart, he's had ZERO legal or behavioral issues, and he's shown himself to be extremely teachable and a high character guy. All of the reasonable criticisms I've seen of him involve technique, which can be taught. And you need to consider, that he doesn't have years of bad habits he's developed that need to be overcome. I suppose the only other real criticism of him is that he can get winded later in the game. Okay, so he'll need to work himself into a little better shape.

A lot of guys who are project players are considered projects because they have talent, but perhaps they need a little more size or strength. Or perhaps they have size and strength, but their talent level is not that high, and with experience and technique, they can learn to maximize the talent they have and become a contributor. Ziggy has elite athleticism and speed. What makes anyone think he can't be successful rushing the passer in the NFL? I'd have thought his run defense would be the biggest question. With how much he improved during his only year with significant playing time in organized football, why is it reasonable to assume he's not going to continue to improve? You can look at a guy who's played at a consistent level for 3 years and reasonably assume he's reached his peak. Ziggy's not that guy. Ziggy's improvement was meteoric last season. What makes anyone with half a brain think he's hit his ceiling?

Ziggy's freaking 270 lbs and runs a 4.63 in the 40. His combine 4.63 would have ranked him at # 18 among the running backs at the combine - Oklahoma State RB Joseph Randle (projected to go in round 2 or 3) also ran a 4.63 - at 207 lbs., almost 65 lbs. lighter than Ziggy.

Does this answer the guys who wonder how Ziggy can be a top 10 draft pick without having better "production" in college?

Yeah, I'm sniffing Ziggy's jock. He's the kind of talent that BYU rarely gets, and his story and his talent are amazing. In one year, he's become probably the most beloved BYU player ever. How can I not be optimistic for him? We haven't had a lot of BYU guys to follow in the NFL lately. We're definitely ready for one.
Surely there will be a slew of responses. Any second now...
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Two games after that, he had a nice game in a close loss against a Notre Dame team that would be the #1 ranked team the next day.

The next game, at Georgia Tech, he had another dominant game.

LOL. wrote about every game, picking out each detail and these 2, they were really dominant games for him.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Nice post BlueFunk.

I didn't like JPP near as much from college tape compared to Ziggy. I think his ceiling is likely higher, and that's scary.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Wow. Hopefully he goes #3.
So you dislike Daniel Jeremiah, a former scout, because he mocks a certain player to your team that you don't like. But a few paragraphs from poster, on an internet draft site, is the type of information you can really rally behind?? Sounds about right...
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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So I suppose you're applauding the Eagles for selecting Brandon Graham over Jason Pierre-Paul in 2010.
Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".

I'm really tired of people constantly bringing up Jason Pierre Paul as the answer to all questions about "raw" prospects. Guess what? It's only been THREE years in the league for Pierre Paul as a player. He sucked in his rookie season, and he was average last year. 2011 was his only "good" year so far. He could still be a disappointing player in the long run. Players have one good year and never do anything else noteworthy all the time in the NFL. The history of the NFL is littered with "one year wonders". Pierre Paul could easily become one of these.

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Old 04-19-2013, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Here's an interesting article about Ansah's bust potential written by Predictionmachine.com's resident draft expert:

Quote:
Ezekiel Ansah (BYU): A young, developmental-type player who has only been playing football a few seasons, Ansah ran the 40-yard dash in 4.56 seconds. At 6’5” and 270 lbs., he is the perfect blend of strength, speed, power and agility. There is just one very small issue: He doesn’t know how to play football. He was a one-year “starter.” I am using starter very loosely, because in watching his tape, I saw he was mostly used as a situational pass rusher, and he only started nine games last season.

BYU had one of the best defenses in the country last year. The Cougars finished third overall in total defense, tenth in pass defense and second in rush defense. They had a fundamentally sound defense with a true leader, a player who, if he had come out this season, would have been a first-round draft selection. His name is Kyle Van Noy. Below is a quick breakdown of Ansah and Van Noy. See which one you think is a legitimate first-round talent.
Player Games Total Tkls Total TFL Career Sacks PB FF INT Blocked Kicks Impact Plays Impact Plays Per Game Avg
Ezekiel Ansah 31 55.5 13 4.5 10 1 1 0 29.5 0.95
Kyle Van Noy 39 133.5 44.5 22 10 11 5 3 101.5 2.60

BYU opponents weren’t afraid of Ansah. They were afraid of Van Noy. He is the reason why offenses left a tight end on the line to block Ansah, and more often than not, they were moving their protection to Van Noy’s areas.

In 31 career games, Ansah averaged .95 impact plays a game, whereas Van Noy averaged roughly 2.60 impact plays a game.

There has been a lot of talk of Ansah being compared to Jason Pierre-Paul, but remember Pierre-Paul actually played. He saw the field at a junior college for a couple of seasons before playing a year at South Florida University. The NFL isn’t a venue where first-round draft picks have the luxury of sitting and watching.

If we fast forward four years and take a look back, and Ansah has failed to produce in the NFL, are you really going to be shocked about a player who only had nine career starts in college, never played the game before college and has a limited pass technique and skill set? I don’t think so.
(from http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-dra...ree-ansah-bust)
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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So you dislike Daniel Jeremiah, a former scout, because he mocks a certain player to your team that you don't like. But a few paragraphs from poster, on an internet draft site, is the type of information you can really rally behind?? Sounds about right...
No, I dislike Jeremiah's seemingly bias promotion of one player. The detailed information the "poster" provided on Ansah has nothing to due with my perception of Jeremiah. Nice try.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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Here's an interesting article about Ansah's bust potential written by Predictionmachine.com's resident draft expert:



(from http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-dra...ree-ansah-bust)
This is a pretty stupid article. Van Noy was by far the more accomplished, experienced player. Of course teams were game planning around him. I guess you didn't get the point about Ansah learning the game and improving on the field during the season. He was an undrafted free agent coming into his year.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-20-2013, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".

I'm really tired of people constantly bringing up Jason Pierre Paul as the answer to all questions about "raw" prospects. Guess what? It's only been THREE years in the league for Pierre Paul as a player. He sucked in his rookie season, and he was average last year. 2011 was his only "good" year so far. He could still be a disappointing player in the long run. Players have one good year and never do anything else noteworthy all the time in the NFL. The history of the NFL is littered with "one year wonders". Pierre Paul could easily become one of these.

Wait, are you saying Brandon Graham is a better player than JPP??
Please THINK before you type.

JPP didn't start as a rookie. His 2nd year in the league he had 16.5 sacks in 12(!!) games started. Last year JPP faced constant double teams and his production dipped.

Brandon Graham has been garbage thus far in his NFL career. Injuries unfortunately are a part of the game, but don't come here with this BS that Graham is better than JPP on a per play basis.

Graham did NOT have a better year than JPP last season. I saw both those guys twice last season. One of them the Skins were able to stone with a TE.
The other guy gave Trent Williams all he could handle and sacked RGIII.

Graham is an afterthought in the NFL. If the Eagles tried to trade him, they'd be lucky to get a 6th round pick.

What I hate is when people hide behind stat crunchers like PFF to defend a crap argument.

JPP is up here.
Brandon Graham is waaaaaay down there. Until further notice, Graham is on bust-watch.

No one from the 2010 draft has more sacks than JPP.

What a crazy comparison for Pierre-Paul.
At least pick a player whom most NFL fans consider to be GOOD.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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I pulled these quotes from another board:

Kyle Van Noy, BYU linebacker:

"Ziggy's first practices as a walk-on in 2010 have kind of become legend, but it's all true. He tried to cram the wrong pads into the wrong slots on his pants. He put his shoulder pads on backward. The first times he lined up, he either just stood there straight up or he'd get down like a frog on all fours. But nobody laughed at him because he was so big we were afraid of what he might do to everyone if he got mad."



Bronco Mendenhall, BYU coach:

"He had no concept of how to tackle, no idea about leverage or getting low on someone to bring them down. He just ran around hitting stuff, straight up. But he was so fast and so naturally strong that technique didn't matter. The first time we ran him in some kickoff drills at practice, he took off and knocked down about nine guys, all arms, and never broke stride. The play ended and he was just standing there, bodies all over the ground around him, looking like, 'What? Did I do something wrong?' One of the first times we put him into a game was on kick coverage halfway through the 2010 season [against Wyoming on Oct. 23]. The same thing happened. We basically just said, 'Go hit the guy with the ball.' He ran 10 yards ahead of everyone else and brought the player down by himself."



Romney Fuga, BYU nose tackle:

"We got him in the weight room and realized he had no idea what he was doing. He'd never lifted a weight in his life. But we'd all seen him with his shirt off and we thought, Wait, all of this is just DNA?"



Chris Petersen, Boise State coach:

"We played BYU in our third game of the 2012 season. Thursday night, national TV. It was a super-tight game when we recovered a fumble on their 1-yard line in the second half. Well, BYU has been strong along the defensive front for decades, but their best defensive end [Eathyn Manumaleuna] was out with an injury, so we were thinking we might have an advantage. We were going right at that position. But suddenly this No. 47 blasted in and dropped [running back] D.J. Harper for a loss. Next play, he did it again. They ended up stopping us on downs. We had zero information on No. 47, so our staff was scrambling for a roster, asking, 'Who is this guy?' He was so big, we wondered if maybe BYU had a jersey mix-up and one of its starters had switched numbers for a couple of plays or something. It turned out that Ansah had just never really played before. I don't know how many tackles he had, but it was a lot. And he also blew up a fake punt attempt. On one hand, we felt like, Man, how could we let some unknown guy beat us like that? Then when we saw what he did the rest of the year, it was like, Oh, he did that to everybody. Unfortunately, he had his arrival moment against us."



Steve Kaufusi, BYU defensive line coach:

"After the Boise game, I ran up to Ziggy with the stats. I told him he had eight tackles, two and a half for a loss, broke up a pass and had the first sack Boise had given up all year. This is a guy who had seven tackles in all of 2011. I was going crazy; he just smiled and said, 'Thanks, Coach, I think I did good too.' I don't think he understood what he'd done. And he did it on national TV, with everybody in the NFL watching."



Omoregie Uzzi, Georgia Tech right guard:

"As complicated as people think our offense option is, the goal is really simple: All of us on the offensive line just look across to see who we're facing and say, 'Okay, that's the guy I have to beat on this play.' We're constantly sizing players up, and it takes a lot to surprise me. I'm 6'3", 300 pounds -- not a giant, but not small either. Well, we lined up against BYU [on Oct. 27, 2012] and I saw this 6'5" guy standing in. I thought, Whoa! I looked over at [left guard] Shaquille Mason and was like, 'Good luck, dude.' Ansah killed us. He was all over the place all day. But the crazy thing was, the whole time he was smiling and very polite, like, 'This is fun; thank you for playing with us today.' You don't want to like a guy who is beating up on you, but you couldn't help it with him."



Todd McShay, ESPN NFL Draft analyst:

"I'm watching Ansah film and I get to that Georgia Tech game in which he had eight tackles and a sack. I was so impressed that I started tweeting while I watched. His explosiveness is what separates him from other defensive ends, which is where he'll play in the NFL. He just killed the guard and fullback in the Georgia Tech game. If that fullback quit football forever after that game, I would totally understand."



Mendenhall:

"Remember that first time on special teams? Fast-forward to our last game of 2012, the Poinsettia Bowl against San Diego State. We were calling a defense that had Ziggy as the screen defender. He popped off the line and drew the block from the tackle. When the tackle released, Ziggy turned, got in his hip pocket and made the play. This was a guy who understood the nuances of the game. He was basically fake rushing, inviting the screen so he could make a play on it. That's where we are now, just a couple dozen games removed from 'Go hit the guy with the ball.' "
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-20-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".

I'm really tired of people constantly bringing up Jason Pierre Paul as the answer to all questions about "raw" prospects. Guess what? It's only been THREE years in the league for Pierre Paul as a player. He sucked in his rookie season, and he was average last year. 2011 was his only "good" year so far. He could still be a disappointing player in the long run. Players have one good year and never do anything else noteworthy all the time in the NFL. The history of the NFL is littered with "one year wonders". Pierre Paul could easily become one of these.
Comparing 2 players solely on the basis of a per snap performance pass rushing basis is so fundamentally idiotic, especially when one player is a situational player while the other is a full time player. I like Brandon Graham a lot, and think that he is a solid rusher who has caught some bad breaks in his career, but he's no JPP.

The truth is not all pass rushing snaps are created equal. Somebody is going to rush very differently on 2nd and 2 than 3rd and 16. Also, blocking assignments, quality of opposing tackles, rush assignments, and technique varies widely from team to team. Simply saying player x got 20 rushes in 200 snaps doesn't mean he would have had 40 rushes in 400 snaps.

There is a lot more to being a quality passing situation DE than simply getting high pressure statistics, especially since the definition of a pressure is so nebulous and dependent on the person to begin with.
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