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Old 04-24-2013, 10:15 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Why do I feel the Chiefs are going to draft an OT #1 overall because it's cheaper than signing Brandon Albert to a long term deal??

Suppose Albert and the Chiefs were on the same page and he was signed long term, would the Chiefs still be projected to draft Joeckel with the first pick??
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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yes....that is what is projected for the chiefs every yr.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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yes....that is what is projected for the chiefs every yr.
This. The Chiefs are projected to draft an OL every. single. year. without fail. It makes absolutely no sense, but every year it's someone. Joeckel or Fisher this year. DeCastro last year. Carimi the year before. And who can forget Bryan Bulaga 5th overall?

It's neverending.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Why do I feel the Chiefs are going to draft an OT #1 overall because it's cheaper than signing Brandon Albert to a long term deal??
Because they are. I thought that was pretty clear from the get-go. They are spending the 1st pick on a discounted side-grade. Let's hope the Jags don't make the same mistake at 2 with Monroe heading into his contract year.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Because they are. I thought that was pretty clear from the get-go. They are spending the 1st pick on a discounted side-grade. Let's hope the Jags don't make the same mistake at 2 with Monroe heading into his contract year.
This is exactly how I feel. If the past few months are any indication, I'm so glad that KC hired Dorsey before the Packers could promote the guy to be Thompson's successor.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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This is exactly how I feel. If the past few months are any indication, I'm so glad that KC hired Dorsey before the Packers could promote the guy to be Thompson's successor.
You're going way overboard with this now I think.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Chiefs trade down or take Joeckel.
Refer to page eleven of this thread from nearly four months ago and I can say "I told you so!"
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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Refer to page eleven of this thread from nearly four months ago and I can say "I told you so!"
Unless, of course, they don't take Joeckel or trade down. I don't believe taking Fisher will qualify for an "I told you so!"

I'm still interested to see what happens. I'm wondering if the Chiefs don't just stiff the Fins and have Albert and Fisher as the bookends and see if they can work out a more reasonable long-term deal. After last year's disaster with OL injuries in Philly, I could totally see Andy pushing for having both guys on the roster.

I know this will cue the "RTs aren't worth a #1 pick!" crowd, but after thinking about it for a while, I can't say why you should take another position that you don't need if you truly feel like the RT is the best player in the entire draft.

I just hope they stand firm with the Fins, because if we trade Albert for less than a 2nd, I'll be pissed (not that anyone at 1 Arrowhead Drive will care).
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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I'm glad PFF is starting to show us data that backs up what I've been saying for the past 2 years: LT is the most overrated position in football.

When you look at qb pressures, there is no correlation that having a stud LT will have any impact on the amount of pressures on a qb. Pressure comes from everywhere, bc defenses move their pass rushers around.

It's more important to have a strong interior OL than it is to have a stud LT. He's way overpriced and can be rendered useless by simply moving your pass rushers to the middle and right side of the LOS.

So have fun with a mediocre qb and stud LT KC. That blueprint has worked wonders lately.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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It's more important to have a strong interior OL than it is to have a stud LT. He's way overpriced and can be rendered useless by simply moving your pass rushers to the middle and right side of the LOS.
This is the approach the Saints have taken while having Drew Brees and it has paid off big time. The biggest thing is avoiding pressure in the face, rather than off the edge.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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This is the approach the Saints have taken while having Drew Brees and it has paid off big time. The biggest thing is avoiding pressure in the face, rather than off the edge.
Absolutely. Think about it, when you talk about edge pressure, you have means of stopping it externally outside the OTs. You have TEs who can stay and block, or chip, same with RBs. You can slide the OGs.

When we talk about interior pressure, it's entirely up to the OGs and C to protect the gut. They're on an island of sorts as a collective unit.

And here's the thing that many people are missing. The way defenses stretch OLs out horizontally now, your OG has to be just as quick in space as your OTs. If I go wide 9 and stretch the OT wide enough that I have basically turned the OG into another OT with a lot of space btw his outside shoulder and the OT, I've essentially created another lane for my interior pass rusher to use outside speed to beat his man with.

Which is why teams use DEs inside on 3rd and long.

So your OGs better have quick feet too.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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So have fun with a mediocre qb and stud LT KC. That blueprint has worked wonders lately.
Way to be a jerk. :\
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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Way to be a jerk. :\
I'm here for you bro. I'm here for you.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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I'm here for you bro. I'm here for you.
It sure as hell doesn't sound like it!
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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It sure as hell doesn't sound like it!
I'm a big believer in tough love.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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I'm a big believer in tough love.
For the record, I completely agree about LT being extremely overrated. Give me a pass rusher or a QB with the first pick.. but it isn't up to me.

I saw a really awful stat last night, something like: the 6 years before Joe Thomas was drafted, the Browns were 33-60.. the 6 years after? 30-63.

But since my team is making a mistake, I need to try to feel as upbeat and positive about it as possible. Or something. Ugh.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I completely agree about LT being extremely overrated. Give me a pass rusher or a QB with the first pick.. but it isn't up to me.

I saw a really awful stat last night, something like: the 6 years before Joe Thomas was drafted, the Browns were 33-60.. the 6 years after? 30-63.

But since my team is making a mistake, I need to try to feel as upbeat and positive about it as possible. Or something. Ugh.
Yup yup yup.

There's light at the end of the tunnel though. Andy has done well with quarterbacks. And you can always enjoy rounds 2-7! The Chiefs have talent, this isn't a typical bad record team.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Yup yup yup.

There's light at the end of the tunnel though. Andy has done well with quarterbacks. And you can always enjoy rounds 2-7! The Chiefs have talent, this isn't a typical bad record team.
My team is starting Alex Smith as their QB. And he's the best QB they've had in a very long time. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, just a cliff you can't see because it's too dark.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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GENO SMITH pls
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I completely agree about LT being extremely overrated. Give me a pass rusher or a QB with the first pick.. but it isn't up to me.

I saw a really awful stat last night, something like: the 6 years before Joe Thomas was drafted, the Browns were 33-60.. the 6 years after? 30-63.

But since my team is making a mistake, I need to try to feel as upbeat and positive about it as possible. Or something. Ugh.
I wouldn't say left tackles are overrated per se. But, if you don't have a good QB, they are worthless. It's like paying a former Navy Seal to protect your garage that contains a 1997 Chevy Cavalier.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say left tackles are overrated per se. But, if you don't have a good QB, they are worthless. It's like paying a former Navy Seal to protect your garage that contains a 1997 Chevy Cavalier.
If you don't have a QB your entire franchise is useless. You're a non factor in this league when you don't have a QB.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
If you don't have a QB your entire franchise is useless. You're a non factor in this league when you don't have a QB.
This.

With a good-great QB, you can compete. No matter what. Same with basketball and point guards. If you have that guy, you'll be able to compete day in and day out.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:58 AM    (permalink
tjjohnson98
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You guys are totally killing my effort to find the bright side of our OTs costing us $15M+ this year.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
P-L
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It's easy to point at the Browns record and say Joe Thomas hasn't had an impact on their record. However, the Browns would be much worse off had they passed on Joe Thomas at #3 for the best available quarterback (Brady Quinn), pass rusher (Gaines Adams), defensive tackle (Adam Carriker), or offensive guard (Ben Grubbs). Sometimes, you just have to take the best player. The Browns didn't go 30-63 in the last six years because they drafted Joe Thomas. They went 30-63 because they don't have a quarterback and wasted numerous other 1st and 2nd round picks.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
vidae
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It's easy to point at the Browns record and say Joe Thomas hasn't had an impact on their record. However, the Browns would be much worse off had they passed on Joe Thomas at #3 for the best available quarterback (Brady Quinn), pass rusher (Gaines Adams), defensive tackle (Adam Carriker), or offensive guard (Ben Grubbs). Sometimes, you just have to take the best player. The Browns didn't go 30-63 in the last six years because they drafted Joe Thomas. They went 30-63 because they don't have a quarterback and wasted numerous other 1st and 2nd round picks.
I don't disagree with you, but that wasn't the point. The point was that OTs just don't have a HUGE impact on wins or losses.. at least not enough to warrant them being considered a "premium" position in the NFL today. Do they help you win? Yes. Are they as important as people make them out to be? Absolutely not.
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