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Old 04-26-2013, 08:21 AM    (permalink
thebow305
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Originally Posted by Robcards View Post
Is this a joke? The move was awful. To trade up to 3 and not take Lane Johnson is just absurd. If they wanted a pass rusher they should've stood at 12 or even moved back (or drafted Ansah). Don't see Jordan beating any NFL starting LTs one on one as a 4-3 DE. Horrible value and horrible fit. They're almost as big of a loser today as the Cowboys and Bears.
Coming from THE biggest losers on Draft Day. Haha damn Jets fans are delusional! At least we took a need and someone that fits our defense. I laughed my ass off when you guys took Sheldon. I think everybody did, except the Jets fans in attendance who wanted to kill themselves.

Glass house dude...
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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AcheTen,

IMO, Travis Frederick was a solid pick at the bottom of round one. He's better than last year's Wisconsin guard Kevin Zeitler who also went at the bottom of the first round last year and played very well last year.
I personally haven't studied Frederick much, so he may be a great player, but from all the draft reports, he could have been sitting there in the 2nd or even 3rd round.

And I like Barrett Jones alot more than any other C in the class. AND C is basically a low-value position that probably shouldn't be picked in the first round anyway.

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Tavon Austin is a freak of nature. Not sizewise like you prefer, but a player with his combination of speed and quickness is extremely rare.
Tedd Ginn Jr was just as fast and quick. He was also a midget like Austin. Small players can ball in the NFL, but when you're paying a first round premium, a top-10 pick, you don't just want a fast quick guy. You want a fast, quick, BIG guy. The list of little guys who are quick and fast is very long. The list of big guys who are fast and quick is much shorter.



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And while Ogletree may have played ILB at Georgia, he's a FAR better fit as a 4-3 WLB like he will be playing with the Rams.
I would never pick a non-pass-rushing linebacker in the first round. It's just not a value position. Add onto that the fact that Ogletree is a very high bust-likely prospect in the first place, even outside of the fact that his position is low-value, and it's a bad pick for the Rams who could have done a lot better picking an OL or DL that dropped.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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I think Manuel is a huge risk.

But I did like getting a 2nd round pick to move down, while screwing the Jets and mitigating some of the Manuel risk.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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While I think the Bills made a huge reach on Manuel, I am so envious of them for at least trying. That is more than the Chiefs have done in the last three decades.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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I'll probably get bashed for this but I really felt like the Vikings came out as one of my bigger losers of day one. First, I never bought into the hype for Sharrif Floyd as a top 10 guy. I've always had him as a fringe first round guy. I think where the Vikings got him was about the right value and probably the best of the three first round picks although I still don't consider him an elite prospect.

The next two picks were the ones that really didnt do it for me. I've always considered Rhodes more of a FS prospect then a starting CB. He has the size that is the current flavor of the month for NFL corners thanks to the Seattle duo but he otherwise lacks alot of what makes them so good and I think he was overrated mostly due to his size. He is fast yes but I am not sure he is fluid enough to succeed as a starting corner and I question his instincts. Obviously stronger in man coverage than in zone and has had continuous issues with inconsistencies. Shot up the draft boards after his combine workout but doesnt pass the eye test as a first rounder for me watching game tape.

The trade up for Patterson though was imo one of the worst moves in the first round. I know some people are high on Pattersons potential but underclassman with high potential and limited production are not players I value highly. For me, he is a much bigger risk than his "potential" is worth. Even moreso considering the trade made. When you consider the depth of equivalent if not better talent available at WR in the 2nd and even 3rd round this year, I can't comprehend giving up the quantity of picks that the Vikings did to move up for Patterson. I know they will receive a lot of "A" grades from pundits and that alone should tell you a lot...
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Coming from THE biggest losers on Draft Day. Haha damn Jets fans are delusional! At least we took a need and someone that fits our defense. I laughed my ass off when you guys took Sheldon. I think everybody did, except the Jets fans in attendance who wanted to kill themselves.

Glass house dude...
Umm, explain to me how the Jets are even remotely close to the biggest losers? We didn't fill needs or get to trade back, but who did you want them to pick at those spots? We took BPA or close to it, how is that 'losing'? And how does dion Jordan fit as a 4-3 de at all? Your post makes zero sense.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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I'm surprised so many people think the Bills are losers. Normally this forum is littered with the idea of going out and getting your own QB. People here often say that reaching on a QB is better than not having one at all.

If there was ever a draft class to under value your first round pick and try to reach for a QB you think could be the future, this is it I think. It's not like they gave up the 1st overall pick for him. They did the smart thing, stayed calm and traded back.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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Coming from THE biggest losers on Draft Day. Haha damn Jets fans are delusional! At least we took a need and someone that fits our defense. I laughed my ass off when you guys took Sheldon. I think everybody did, except the Jets fans in attendance who wanted to kill themselves.

Glass house dude...
I didn't know Milliner or Richardson busted to make us losers. LOL

Milliner would start for the Phins and maybe even be your No.1 CB if all goes right since Grimes is coming off a season ender and is on a 1 year deal.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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The trade up for Patterson though was imo one of the worst moves in the first round. I know some people are high on Pattersons potential but underclassman with high potential and limited production are not players I value highly. For me, he is a much bigger risk than his "potential" is worth. Even moreso considering the trade made. When you consider the depth of equivalent if not better talent available at WR in the 2nd and even 3rd round this year, I can't comprehend giving up the quantity of picks that the Vikings did to move up for Patterson. I know they will receive a lot of "A" grades from pundits and that alone should tell you a lot...
I think the Vikes taking Patterson is a clear sign they don't trust Ponder to run a traditional offense. Greg Jennings is a guy who can win outside and Rudolph is a match up nightmare in the middle of the field, and obviously you have Peterson to be the main offensive weapon. Common sense to me dictates they should have taken a guy who can line up wide and win outside to widen the field and open things up for Peterson. However I don't think they trust Ponder to make those stick throws to the outside, so they bring in a guy who they will manufacture ways to get the ball. It's a good move from that perspective, but if you don't trust the guy to make the necessary throws when he will be throwing against single coverage then you have to cut your losses and move on IMO.

They could have taken a guy like Keenan Allen at 52 and run 12 personnel all day.

Allen and Jennings lining up on opposite sides are generally going to see single high, man coverage with 8 in the box against Peterson. But do you trust Ponder to make the digs, comebacks, back shoulder throws needed to run that successfully? I don't and this pick shows me that the Vikings brass don't either.

Best way to help a struggling QB is to get guys who can do damage with the ball in space. I expect a heavy dosage of Peterson obviously, Patterson on sweeps, bubble screens etc and a very conservative pass game centered around Rudolph off play action
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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I'm surprised so many people think the Bills are losers. Normally this forum is littered with the idea of going out and getting your own QB. People here often say that reaching on a QB is better than not having one at all.

If there was ever a draft class to under value your first round pick and try to reach for a QB you think could be the future, this is it I think. It's not like they gave up the 1st overall pick for him. They did the smart thing, stayed calm and traded back.
I kind of agree. Like I said earlier in this thread, I know it was viewed as a reach, but I'm jealous of Bills fans. At least their franchise tries to draft and develop the most important position in pro sports. The Chiefs just don't get it.

Was EJ Manuel worth the 16th pick? No. But they needed someone, they targeted who they wanted, and they got him. Good for them.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Just want to point out that the Texans aren't getting enough love in this thread. They just drafted Roddy White to play across from Andre Johnson. Hopkins was the best WR prospect in the draft.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, Hopkins was a great pick.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Just want to point out that the Texans aren't getting enough love in this thread. They just drafted Roddy White to play across from Andre Johnson. Hopkins was the best WR prospect in the draft.
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Yeah, Hopkins was a great pick.
Agreed. Slam dunk pick by them. I love Nuke as a prospect
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, Hopkins was a great pick.
I will echo this.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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I kind of agree. Like I said earlier in this thread, I know it was viewed as a reach, but I'm jealous of Bills fans. At least their franchise tries to draft and develop the most important position in pro sports. The Chiefs just don't get it.

Was EJ Manuel worth the 16th pick? No. But they needed someone, they targeted who they wanted, and they got him. Good for them.
you make a good point. ej manuel is better than nothing. but what made it so bad for me was that they picked ej manuel over geno smith. they could've had a good qb and they picked a terrible qb. but still, better than nothing. at least they have hope. sorry vid.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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CAR getting a top 5 player in Lotulelei at 14 was a steal.Also fills a huge need.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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CAR getting a top 5 player in Lotulelei at 14 was a steal.Also fills a huge need.
I loved that pick for Carolina. When Floyd and Star were there at 14 I have to think off of the Panthers brass were ******** themselves in excitement. Really like Star, I think he will tear it up in the NFL.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Just want to point out that the Texans aren't getting enough love in this thread. They just drafted Roddy White to play across from Andre Johnson. Hopkins was the best WR prospect in the draft.
this for sure. I had him going 16 to the Rams :(
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I kind of agree. Like I said earlier in this thread, I know it was viewed as a reach, but I'm jealous of Bills fans. At least their franchise tries to draft and develop the most important position in pro sports. The Chiefs just don't get it.

Was EJ Manuel worth the 16th pick? No. But they needed someone, they targeted who they wanted, and they got him. Good for them.
Chiefs are taking Tyler Wilson in the 3rd and he's going to be the best QB in this draft though, isn't he?
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Chiefs are taking Tyler Wilson in the 3rd and he's going to be the best QB in this draft though, isn't he?
Yes he will be.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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They were projected high because some teams do stupid things. (and some fans fail to understand positional value)
No they were projected high because they are two of the safest picks in the draft, and you're not paying them elite money anymore which, which increases there value that much more.

I wasn't a huge fan of taking a guard at 10, but with how the board fell, taking Warmack or trading down were really about our only options.

In a draft that was a down class, the Titans walked away with a top 5 player in it at the 10th spot. To me, that's always a win
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:40 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
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I'm surprised so many people think the Bills are losers. Normally this forum is littered with the idea of going out and getting your own QB. People here often say that reaching on a QB is better than not having one at all.

If there was ever a draft class to under value your first round pick and try to reach for a QB you think could be the future, this is it I think. It's not like they gave up the 1st overall pick for him. They did the smart thing, stayed calm and traded back.
Yeah, I actually like it for the Bills even though I don't like Manuel. They took their shot and did a good job not risking too much to do it, the second round pick in this deep draft does a lot to mitigate the risk of taking Manuel in round 1.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I will also echo the Nuke love. So upset when Houston nabbed two picks before us.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I think the winners were St.Louis,Minnesota and Carolina(huge steal in Star).

However, the Jets and Cowboys are getting shredded and I consider both of them to be closer to the winners than the losers. The Jets needed interior DL and CB pretty badly and they needed to replenish that D. They have lost or are going to lose soon a ton of guys from that unit. Rex has never been a guy who needed pure speed rushers to get a pass rush. He believes in dominating the line of scrimmage, disrupting you from all over and having strong corners. They built to his strengths on D. Yah, they needed offense, but Austin was gone and there wasn't great value after him for skill guys. They weren't going to fill every hole in one draft either. They got 2 great foundation pieces though.

As for Dallas, they got great value. Reid is ranked pretty identically to guys like Cyprien,Elam(who they could have had) and Swearinger. Trading him away to get an extra 3rd and the next best G after the 2 top 10 guys was genius. Frederick became very underrated towards the end of the draft process, but he's a stud at G, maybe C. Dallas is weak at all 3 interior OL positions, so adding a guy with his ability and versatility makes a lot of sense.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I actually like it for the Bills even though I don't like Manuel. They took their shot and did a good job not risking too much to do it, the second round pick in this deep draft does a lot to mitigate the risk of taking Manuel in round 1.
Good call here. All the QBs were risks, whether Nassib,Geno,Manuel,Barkley or whoever else. They moved down, got better value and took a gamble on the one they liked best. Smart move for a team that 1, needed depth and 2, has a huge hole at QB both short and long term.

For Marrone to have passed on a guy he coached and a guy he coached against regularly says a lot to me.
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