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Old 04-28-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Ummmmmmm.....well......maybe becuase.....you know....he's has NEVER played a down of football...like EVER. You might not have noticed but playing football at the professional level is extremely difficult. Especially if you've never played the game before...at all. And then we have a very deep, talented roster already and we drafted 11 very talented players on top of that. I loved that we got him but I honestly have no idea how were going to keep him. If he is one of the final cuts, I doubt he'll clear waivers. Someone will take a flyer. He's too young and too much of a athlete not to. And it be ashamed to keep him and have to cut someone who could have helped you right now. Stay tuned.....
Regardless I would be surprised if he didn't find a role somehow on the team. Even though he has never played a down of football in his life, Okoye seems like the kind of guy that won't be denied. I'd be shocked if he didn't make the team. I just have a good feeling about this dude.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Damn VAfy-ya way to stay postive man. Just wait until training camp. Okoy guy seems like a great add on to our defense for the future! If he shows light of actually talent for tackling and on the DE side of the ball then by all means sign this guy! He may look sluggish now but with our coaching I do believe he will become a starter if not a second string type of fill on the D line. Just give it time man.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Damn VAfy-ya way to stay postive man. Just wait until training camp. Okoy guy seems like a great add on to our defense for the future! If he shows light of actually talent for tackling and on the DE side of the ball then by all means sign this guy! He may look sluggish now but with our coaching I do believe he will become a starter if not a second string type of fill on the D line. Just give it time man.
You really need to pump the breaks. He's NEVER played football. I like many of you are impressed with his athleticism, but that doesn't mean it will automatically translate into him being a great football player or even a decent one they are two completely different animals. Historically track guys also have the worst conversion percentage when coming to football.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Here's my very early final 53 roster -

QB/3 - Kaepernick, McCoy, Tolzien
RB/6 - Gore, Hunter, James
FB/8 - Miller, Dixon
WR/13 - Crabtree, Boldin, Williams, Jenkins, Patton (R)
TE/16 - Davis, McDonald (R), Celek
C/18 - Goodwin, Kilgore
OG/21 - Iupati, Boone, Looney
OT/23 - Staley, Davis

DT/25 - Dorsey, Williams
DE/30 - Smith, McDonald, Carradine (R), Dial (R), Okoye (R)
OLB/34 - Smith, Brooks, Haralson, Lemonier (R)
ILB/38 - Willis, Bowman, Skuta, Moody (R)
CB/45 - Rogers, Asomugha, Brown, Culliver, Cox, Brock, Cooper (R)
FS/47 - Reid (R), Spillman
SS/49 - Whitner, McBath

K/50 - Dawson
P/51 - Lee
LS/52 - Jennings

The 53rd roster spot would go to an OT...either Bykowski or Marqueldt.

Daniels, Bykowski or Marqueldt, Trenton Robinson (if eligible), Netter, Hampton, Lockette, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite and Thomas make the eight player practice squad.

Could see Daniels making the final 53 over Tolzien as the third string QB. After all, Daniels will be under a cheap four year rookie deal while Tolzien is going into the last year of his year contract which makes me think that Daniels was drafted to replace Tolzien.

Lattimore goes straight to IR.....As much as I want to see him play, I dont want him to be rushed and have any setbacks...would prefer to wait to 2014 so he can truly be 100%.

Manningham starts the season on the PUP list and wouldnt be surprised if he goes to IR after week 7 or 8...which ever week is the last week a player can be on the PUP list before having to be moved to IR or the active 53 player roster.

Only have five receivers on the final roster because with McDonald and Davis at TE, I only see the depth kicking in if injuries occur like last season.

Dobbs is coming off a torn ACL or some kind of major injury and both he and Tukuafu are heading into the final year of their three year deals so I can definitely see both being gone. Dobbs could start on the PUP list. Okoye makes the final 53 because too much potential to take a chance that another team claims him off waivers.

Both Cam Johnson and Darius Fleming will be final cuts. Dont see either beating out Haralson and highly unlikely that Lemonier doesnt make the final 53.

Kept seven CB's because if Cooper impresses in TC and pre-season, I wouldnt take the chance of losing him to waivers when we have four CB's who'll be UFA's next year.

The backup SS spot comes down to McBath and Robinson. Dont know how Robinson did last season on special teams but McBath was resigned because he was good on special teams so I give him the edge.

Quite honestly, when you look at it...the players that wont be back will mainly be third and fourth stringers for us in 2013 so honestly, we're not losing anything. If anything, our third and fourth stringers will be better and stronger.

Last edited by dan77733 : 04-28-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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NO WAY Okoye makes the 53 man roster over Tukuafu, or Jerod-Eddie. or Dobbs.

Also Wilhote was the teams best cover man on special teams down the stretch of the season, and I really doubt Moody beats him out.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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Old 04-28-2013, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Looks like we're giving Nate Montana a invite to camp and work outs etc. Report by Marc Sessler at NFL . com
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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NO WAY Okoye makes the 53 man roster over Tukuafu, or Jerod-Eddie.
I think he does. I think that he'll impress the coaching staff enough that they wont take the chance on losing him off waivers. Tukuafu is decent but thats it. Plus, he'll be 30 in January and a RFA next year. With Dorsey, Carradine, Dial, Haralson and even Lemonier, we can afford to use one or two roster spots on guys who are developmental players but at the same time, may be worth a roster from another team that doesnt have the depth and talent that we do.

Jerrod-Eddie has the best chance out of him, Dobbs and Tukuafu but he was on the practice squad last year and no one claimed him. Okoye is a freak and almost a guarantee to be gone if he hits waivers. He'll have to completely suck to not warrant at least consideration for making the final 53.

I do believe that he'll show flashes during TC and pre-season to where he has to make the final 53 because if he doesnt, a team that doesnt have the talent and depth that we do will most likely claim him. At only 21 years old and with who we currently have on the roster, unless he sucks, he'll be worth the 52nd or 53rd roster spot.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Also Wilhote was the teams best cover man on special teams down the stretch of the season, and I really doubt Moody beats him out.
True but dont forget thats without Haralson. And Wilhoite wasnt on the active roster the entire season. I'm going with Moody because we have to have another ILB and a 23 year old rookie under a four year deal is better than a 26 year old who'll be a UFA in March anyway.

Plus, unlike last year when we lost Costanzo, this year, we signed Skuta who's basically the replacement for Costanzo.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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NO WAY Okoye makes the 53 man roster over Tukuafu, or Jerod-Eddie. or Dobbs.

Also Wilhote was the teams best cover man on special teams down the stretch of the season, and I really doubt Moody beats him out.
I get what your saying but TJE still has PS eligibility. IF Okoye shows enough that they don't want to risk him to the wavier wire, I could defintely see him making it over TJE, who I really like btw. Moody is a former safety and was a standout on ST player at FSU. He was brought in for competition directly for Wilhoite, who like Dan stated, will be a RFA at the end of the year. May the best man win. If anything, I think Dobbs makes over Dial. He's presence on STs as well as him playing some back-up TE would prove more valuable over Dial, who I like long-term but is still raw and should pass through wire without much hassle.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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I get what your saying but TJE still has PS eligibility. IF Okoye shows enough that they don't want to risk him to the wavier wire, I could defintely see him making it over TJE, who I really like btw. Moody is a former safety and was a standout on ST player at FSU. He was brought in for competition directly for Wilhoite, who like Dan stated, will be a RFA at the end of the year. May the best man win. If anything, I think Dobbs makes over Dial. He's presence on STs as well as him playing some back-up TE would prove more valuable over Dial, who I like long-term but is still raw and should pass through wire without much hassle.
Plus dont forget, we signed Skuta to be the ST replacement for Costanzo who we lost last year and it showed. Wilhoite did good when he had the chance on ST but I dont see him beating out Skuta or Moody.

I would go with Eddie over Dobbs because Dobbs is coming off a season ending injury which I think was a torn ACL, is more of a backup TE than DL and quite simply, just dont see him beating out younger, healthier and hungrier guys. Dont think either will beat out Dial though.

No matter what happens, it should be a lot of fun to watch.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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I think he does. I think that he'll impress the coaching staff enough that they wont take the chance on losing him off waivers. Tukuafu is decent but thats it. Plus, he'll be 30 in January and a RFA next year. With Dorsey, Carradine, Dial, Haralson and even Lemonier, we can afford to use one or two roster spots on guys who are developmental players but at the same time, may be worth a roster from another team that doesnt have the depth and talent that we do.

Jerrod-Eddie has the best chance out of him, Dobbs and Tukuafu but he was on the practice squad last year and no one claimed him. Okoye is a freak and almost a guarantee to be gone if he hits waivers. He'll have to completely suck to not warrant at least consideration for making the final 53.

I do believe that he'll show flashes during TC and pre-season to where he has to make the final 53 because if he doesnt, a team that doesnt have the talent and depth that we do will most likely claim him. At only 21 years old and with who we currently have on the roster, unless he sucks, he'll be worth the 52nd or 53rd roster spot.
You're also forgetting one of my other main points is that there is a very good chance Okoye doesn't get the game of football. Like I said I haven't seen a statistical study, but off of memory track guys have the worst conversion percentage of all other sports to football. Granted that is more with runners than guys that do field events. Since Dobbs is a core special teams player I doubt that if he's healthy he doesn't make the team. Tukuafu is also a Tomsula favorite and I don't think he gets away.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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I am extremely intrigued by Okoye as well. I just think the expectations for him and the predictions are a little premature that is all.

I am very excited to see how the training camp battles shake out though.

The battles I am looking forward to -

RB- Hampton vs. Anthony Dixon

WR - Patton vs. Kyle Williams, Ricardo Lockette, A.J. Jenkins

OL - Looney vs. Kenny Wiggens, Luke Marquadart, Carter Bykowski

DL - Dobbs, Tukuafu, Jerod- Eddie vs, Quinton Dial, Lawerence Okoye

OLB - Cam Johnson, Darius Fleming vs, Corey Lemonier,

ILB - Michael Wilhote, Nate Stupar vs, Nick Moody

All of the CBs

S C.J. Spillmen, Craig Dhal, Darcel McBath, Trent Robinson vs. Eric Reid.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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You're also forgetting one of my other main points is that there is a very good chance Okoye doesn't get the game of football. Like I said I haven't seen a statistical study, but off of memory track guys have the worst conversion percentage of all other sports to football. Granted that is more with runners than guys that do field events. Since Dobbs is a core special teams player I doubt that if he's healthy he doesn't make the team. Tukuafu is also a Tomsula favorite and I don't think he gets away.
I'm not forgetting about the fact that Okoye has NO football experience whatsoever. He does have the skill, talent and athletic ability plus he's a freak. Baalke/Harbaugh wouldnt have signed him if they didnt think that he at the very least could make an impression in TC and pre-season.

Also, not having football experience doesnt mean much either because look at all the players, especially top tier first rounders who had the experience yet sucked and were busts.

It could go either way but im going to bet on Okoye making the final 53 over Wilhoite, Dobbs, Tukuafu and Jerrod-Eddie.

If Costanzo was a 49er last season, Wilhoite wouldnt even be in this discussion and possibly, not even on the team. Skuta replaces Wilhoite on special teams and if anything, is an upgrade over Wilhoite.

Dobbs is coming off a season ending injury, was moved to TE and while im not sure, I think he played more snaps on offense than he did on defense last season (im sure you guys can check that to see if im right or wrong). He's also going to be an RFA in March that unless he impresses in TC and pre-season more than others, dont see him making the roster to even have the chance at being tendered.

Tukuafu is already 29 years old which I didnt even know until a few weeks ago. Always thought he was early to mid 20's. He's entering the final season of his three year deal and dont see him making the final 53 over Dial, Okoye and even Jerrod Eddie because of those two factors.

Add in Carradine who's a lock to make the final 53 (unless he's placed on PUP) and no way does Dobbs and Tukuafu make the final 53.

Eddie would be the best bet out of him, Dobbs and Tukuafu but since he can still be placed on the practice squad, I think that barring injuries, he wont make the final 53 either.

Another tidbit is this -

Once we find out if there were any other teams interested in signing Okoye, we can get a good idea if he'll make our 53 or not because if teams that dont have our talent and depth get the chance to claim him off waivers, he's as good as gone unless he sucks in TC and pre-season.

If Okoye impresses the coaching staff enough to warrant a spot, I would much rather keep him over Wilhoite, Dobbs, Tukuafu and Eddie for various reasons.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Also, not having football experience doesnt mean much either because look at all the players, especially top tier first rounders who had the experience yet sucked and were busts.
Um really? This is top 5 one of the biggest crocks of **** you have ever put out here. Football experience means A TON. Players bust for numerous reasons not just because they "suck"
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Also, not having football experience doesnt mean much either because look at all the players, especially top tier first rounders who had the experience yet sucked and were busts.
I see what you're saying - but I think the flip side to this is: With all of the players who bust who have loads of experience, what makes you think someone without that experience fairs any better?

I'm just as intrigued as the next guy with Okoye. Hell, I would have been ok with him being drafted in the 7th. In a perfect world I see him developing to the point where he's in our fatty package at fullback or tight end, he's a rotational guy on the d-line and maybe some roles on the special teams.

Menardo brings up a good point though about track guys - he's right, more specifically it's with runners - but the general point is the same: freaks don't always translate.

How long will it take him to be as valuable as a kid like Quinton Dial - big kid who has played 5 tech at Alabama, one of if not the best program out there.

The "freak" aspect about him is a non discussion. Absolute specimen. But I think the Dial comparison is fair. How quickly can you grasp a game that you've never played? I hope and pray it's ridiculously fast, I really do. But we should temper our expectations.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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I am extremely intrigued by Okoye as well. I just think the expectations for him and the predictions are a little premature that is all.

I am very excited to see how the training camp battles shake out though.

The battles I am looking forward to -

RB- Hampton vs. Anthony Dixon

WR - Patton vs. Kyle Williams, Ricardo Lockette, A.J. Jenkins

OL - Looney vs. Kenny Wiggens, Luke Marquadart, Carter Bykowski

DL - Dobbs, Tukuafu, Jerod- Eddie vs, Quinton Dial, Lawerence Okoye

OLB - Cam Johnson, Darius Fleming vs, Corey Lemonier,

ILB - Michael Wilhote, Nate Stupar vs, Nick Moody

All of the CBs

S C.J. Spillmen, Craig Dhal, Darcel McBath, Trent Robinson vs. Eric Reid.
PREDICTIONS -

Im going to go with Dixon over Hampton because he is entering the final year of his rookie contract, is good on special teams and a decent backup at RB if injuries hit. Also, while Hampton is younger, he can be placed on the PS yet again and be signed in 2014 to replace Dixon.

WR is easy to me....Jenkins and Patton are locks. Williams should make the roster if he's healthy because of his return ability as well as being able to play in the slot. Lockette goes on the practice squad again.

OL is the only position that I think can go any way. Forgot to include Netter in there as well. The only backup I see as a lock right now is Kilgore. Rest will compete but I do expect one backup guard and one backup tackle to make the final 53.

Going with Dial and Okoye over the other three, especially Dial because you guys have to remember....cheap four year rookie deal compared to a guy who was injured last year, another who's 29 and another who's been mainly just a practice squad guy.

Lemonier over Johnson and Fleming. Honestly, I dont even think that this will even be close. Moody over the other two for the 4th ILB spot behind Skuta who's a lock to make the final 53.

I think that ALL SEVEN CB's will make the final 53 because of the uncertainty next off-season. If I had to pick one that wont make the final 53...im going with Culliver...but not to be released but to be traded. Dont want it to happen but I wouldnt be shocked or surprised at all if it does.

Reid is a lock to make the roster and without getting into any kind of argument, im expecting him to be our week one starting FS. Give the edge to Spillman and McBath over the rest at safety. Dahl would be the wildcard but im going with McBath over Dahl because he's cheaper and can play special teams just like Dahl.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Um really? This is top 5 one of the biggest crocks of **** you have ever put out here. Football experience means A TON. Players bust for numerous reasons not just because they "suck"
Go through the list especially the last few years. Come on. Football experience does mean a ton but not as much as work ethic, desire, will, determination, etc....all of that means more than experience because you can have all the experience in the world but if you dont have those other traits, you're not going to get very far unless your play on the field is top tier and those who have that usually have those other traits too.

Players bust because they dont care once they get paid. To me, thats the number one reason because you see it all the damn time. Not that theres a rookie wage scale, I think that will happen less than pre-2011.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Go through the list especially the last few years. Come on. Football experience does mean a ton but not as much as work ethic, desire, will, determination, etc....all of that means more than experience because you can have all the experience in the world but if you dont have those other traits, you're not going to get very far unless your play on the field is top tier and those who have that usually have those other traits too.

Players bust because they dont care once they get paid. To me, thats the number one reason because you see it all the damn time. Not that theres a rookie wage scale, I think that will happen less than pre-2011.
You can have all the work ethic and desire you want, but if you don't understand how to play the game it's not going to mean **** (Vernon Gholston) a name off the top of my head. Experience is HUGE. I hope he magically all of the sudden learns how to play and grasps the game and can convert all of his athletic talent to use on the field. If he does it's not going to happen over night and probably not this season unless he does at all.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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PREDICTIONS -

Im going to go with Dixon over Hampton because he is entering the final year of his rookie contract, is good on special teams and a decent backup at RB if injuries hit. Also, while Hampton is younger, he can be placed on the PS yet again and be signed in 2014 to replace Dixon.

WR is easy to me....Jenkins and Patton are locks. Williams should make the roster if he's healthy because of his return ability as well as being able to play in the slot. Lockette goes on the practice squad again.

OL is the only position that I think can go any way. Forgot to include Netter in there as well. The only backup I see as a lock right now is Kilgore. Rest will compete but I do expect one backup guard and one backup tackle to make the final 53.

Going with Dial and Okoye over the other three, especially Dial because you guys have to remember....cheap four year rookie deal compared to a guy who was injured last year, another who's 29 and another who's been mainly just a practice squad guy.

Lemonier over Johnson and Fleming. Honestly, I dont even think that this will even be close. Moody over the other two for the 4th ILB spot behind Skuta who's a lock to make the final 53.

I think that ALL SEVEN CB's will make the final 53 because of the uncertainty next off-season. If I had to pick one that wont make the final 53...im going with Culliver...but not to be released but to be traded. Dont want it to happen but I wouldnt be shocked or surprised at all if it does.

Reid is a lock to make the roster and without getting into any kind of argument, im expecting him to be our week one starting FS. Give the edge to Spillman and McBath over the rest at safety. Dahl would be the wildcard but im going with McBath over Dahl because he's cheaper and can play special teams just like Dahl.
I wasn't very specific but I wasn't only looking at who would make the roster most of my focus was on the depth chart and who would win what jobs. One of the interesting ones is o-line because it would be great if one of the young guys can show he could be a swing tackle this year, and Looney is the guy they would have to beat out.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Go through the list especially the last few years. Come on. Football experience does mean a ton but not as much as work ethic, desire, will, determination, etc....all of that means more than experience because you can have all the experience in the world but if you dont have those other traits, you're not going to get very far unless your play on the field is top tier and those who have that usually have those other traits too.

Players bust because they dont care once they get paid. To me, thats the number one reason because you see it all the damn time. Not that theres a rookie wage scale, I think that will happen less than pre-2011.
Offensively, maybe its doesn't. You can argue a guy like Antonio Gates made the conversion but basketball and playing TE is a lot more similar than ppl think. But at such a physical demaning as the interior line is, where the technical things are the difference between a TFL and a 20 yard gain for the offense, it isn't so cut and dry.

One thing Okoye has going for him is he isn't JUST a track guy. He was a heralded rugby player as a teen. He wanted to be a Olympian and decided to try the discus and excelled at it. That rugby background is key. If its one sport that's physical MORE demanding than football, its rugby. That should help him make the translation more smoothly. But its still a uphill battle to go from novice to competing against the best talent in the world, as a professional.

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Old 04-28-2013, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't very specific but I wasn't only looking at who would make the roster most of my focus was on the depth chart and who would win what jobs. One of the interesting ones is o-line because it would be great if one of the young guys can show he could be a swing tackle this year, and Looney is the guy they would have to beat out.
Looney and Kilgore are locks, IMO. We'll keep 8 O-Lineman so Wiggins will have to step up and battle the undrafted guys for the swing tackle spot.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Offensively, maybe its doesn't. You can argue a guy like Antonio Gates made the conversion but basketball and playing TE is a lot more similar than ppl think. But at such a physical demaning as the interior line is, where technical things are the differnece betwenn a TFL and a 20 yard gain for the offense, it isn't so cut and dry.

One thing Okoye has going for him is he isn't JUST a track guy. He was a heralded rugby player as a teen. He wanted to be a Olympian and decided to try the discus and excelled at it. That rugby background is key. If its one sport that's physical MORE demanding than football, is rugby. That should help him make the translation more smoothly. But its still a uphill battle to go from novice to competing against the best talent in the world, as a professional.
Thank you this is another point I wanted to make. Offensive and defensive line are 90% more about technique than raw physical ability. Your steps and body position make or break you. Steps are more important. The steps themselves you can learn, but being able to understand and translate them based on alignment, situation, reaction, is the hardest thing to do. Then you have to try and be consistent with it.

For example I played against man Sheldon Richardson my sophmore year at the JUCO level. I was only able to beat him on a high percentage of the game, because even though he was bigger faster stronger than me my technique was worlds away better than his. His get off off the LOS was awesome but then he froze and wasn't sure what to do next. He made his plays don't get me wrong because he's a good football player, but that is the difference. That's the part about Okoye translating to football that you don't understand.

They can teach him attack the outside shoulder and set the edge or dip and rip, but will he be able to naturally react and understand when to use those techniques. That takes practice to figure out, and I can't imagine trying to learn it for the first time at the professional level.
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Where do you play JUCO ball Menardo? You currently playing college ball?
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Where do you play JUCO ball Menardo? You currently playing college ball?
I played at City College of San Francisco for the 09-10 season. I was at the University of Idaho before that. I finished up at Lindenwood University after the 2012 season. I would be a senior going into this year but got pretty banged up and didn't fit in with the new regime at Lindenwood.

I didn't know this until yesterday but I played against Will Davis too my sophmore year small world sometimes haha.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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For example I played against man Sheldon Richardson my sophmore year at the JUCO level. I was only able to beat him on a high percentage of the game, because even though he was bigger faster stronger than me my technique was worlds away better than his. His get off off the LOS was awesome but then he froze and wasn't sure what to do next. He made his plays don't get me wrong because he's a good football player, but that is the difference. That's the part about Okoye translating to football that you don't understand.
Wait a minute.....you actually played football in college? What happened? Are you still playing football?

Regarding Okoye...I never said that he's going to be Justin Smith or something. All I said is that I think he'll beat out Dobbs, Tukuafu and Jerrod Eddie for a roster spot on the final 53. Let's be honest, while they have the experience and whatnot, its not like they're Justin Smith part 2. Come on. I can easily see Okoye winning a roster spot over those three but we'll just have to wait and see.

And vafy-ya said that Okoye was actually a rugby player which people say is tougher to play than football, more violent and more physical. While I dont know how true that is, I do know that experience cant hurt him and will only help him make the transition.
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