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Old 04-28-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
Malaka
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so, where's Pugh gonna play? Is it like, in a perfect world, our future OL is:

Beatty-Pugh-Baas(center)- Herman- Brewer?

Wow, maybe I'm liking Pugh more because our OL looks to be a mess down the road
You mean in the future?

Pugh probably won't sniff the field this year, but I could see him either at LG or RT. I think the short arms stuff is definitely overplayed especially for a RT. The difference an inch makes is negligible.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Baas, Snee and David D will be soon the guys to go. So we need to get replacements AND then depth. That's what we had when we had a god like OL. From guys like Grey Reute something from GB. We had decent depth that came in. We had versatility too which helped.

Now we just have developmental guys and old people. Beatty I am still not sure about. 28 year old inexperienced guy in terms of starting full 16 game seasons. So that I am not too thrilled about. let's see if he can increase his play by so much that he fits in as a good player.

The OL is far from complete. The irony is this.. In a 43 defense there are 2 DE spots. We have:

Moore
Ojomo
Tuck
Kiwi
JPP

5 guys for 2 spots. We have 2 DTs in a 43 system and we have:

Hankins
LinJo
Jenkins
Patterson
Austin
Kuhn
Rodgers


That's ALOT of depth for 2 spots each.

We have 5 OL spots, and we have no where near the caliber starters or depth.

We have Mosley, Hosley, and Brewer, and god knows who else. Cordle? LOL. That's lovely depth there. Hopefully they don't go in a game.

china doll, hip surgery in Snee and had a messed up hand prior, and David D. who had a knee, like Coughlin would say.

With the depth we have at DL, I want us to go ALL out like that for OL. 3 guys need to get replaced next year: Baas, Snee and David D.

Then we need replacements that have a clue.

Think of it this way.. We could have inexperience, or old OL, with a rotating TE corps, with Wilson learning..

That's a recipe for getting Eli killed.

DE or Blitz comes in. OL messed up the assignment, TE messed up helping, and the RB gets run over due to bad pass protection technique, leaving Eli hurt and shaking his head on how ALL 3 guys don't have a clue.

That's worst case. When you think about it, it's not far fetched with our OL. Rotating spot at TE, and then young RB. It can happen. Or Eli doesn't get killed and throws the ball quickly resulting in an Int.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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see, my one "meh" thing with the Hankins pick is our depth there. Looks like Kuhn and Rogers get cut, leaving us still with 5 DTs
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Most of those guys are all temporary stop gaps though.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Well that depends on their play. Rodgers is a stop gap but if Patterson and Jenkins play well they can stick for a few years. Kuhn and Austin are developmental guys.

I think Austin stays. I never realized how young he was. He just turned 24 in Jan. So I think we can still coach him up.

The point is we went balls out to get guys to solidify and then add depth to the two different positions. That's not including what happens if we go "4 Aces" Nascar or whatever.

So I hope when it's time we go OL with the same tenacity.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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while we need to go after OL hard, our back 7 is looking pretty bad. Especially with Webster aging and Rolle off the books next year. We honestly need to start hitting on our low round draft picks. Yeah, we got Cruz as an undrafted FA. Hill's been nice, and this might be his time to shine. But really, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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while we need to go after OL hard, our back 7 is looking pretty bad. Especially with Webster aging and Rolle off the books next year. We honestly need to start hitting on our low round draft picks. Yeah, we got Cruz as an undrafted FA. Hill's been nice, and this might be his time to shine. But really, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Well it would help if we blitzed and got home more than a few times. If the DL got home too that would be great. If that means benching Tuck then so be it. He can't set the edge and was god awful last year. That would help.

Find ways to generate pressure so Qbs don't have all day to throw.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Also, I am curious to see how this staff, specifically Reese can pick and scout a good QB. There are two things Reese has been shielded from. Picking a HC and drafting a franchise QB. These two things were done for him.

He has done well for the team, but those 2 BIG factors he has yet to do. So if he sees value, good, let me work on it because when TC and Eli go, he is on the clock. He has to get the HC hire right AND draft the franchise QB.

BBD thinks we may be bad at evaluating QB. That may be right or may not, but we can't have Reese swing and miss on QBs. If that happens that's going to hurt.

So I will be watching how we evaluate and develop QBs. Woodson, and 5th rounder Bomar were dubs. Ok, well let's see how this 4th rounder does for us.
Let's see how Nassib does. Our developmental QBs in the past have all been duds. Granted, all of them were low investments, and it's not realistic to expect 5th and 6th round QBs to develop, thats just how it is. So I won't judge them too harshly on that. That's more like throwing darts and hoping you hit a bullseye.

But Nassib is a little different. I think Nassib has a legit chance to develop into a quality starter. So let's see if they got it right this time.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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so, where's Pugh gonna play? Is it like, in a perfect world, our future OL is:

Beatty-Pugh-Baas(center)- Herman- Brewer?

Wow, maybe I'm liking Pugh more because our OL looks to be a mess down the road
This offseason is gonna be critical in evaluating our developmental OL picks. We need Mosely and Brewer to pan out. If both are duds, then we're in trouble and will need to draft a minimum of 2 OLmen.

If they pan out, then we just need a future C (Baas will get cut). Right now I expect this season to be the last season we see Baas, Snee, and Diehl. All 3 will get cut after this season.

But if Mosely and Brewer don't show us anything, then both don't make the team this year, and we have no future prospects in those spots, which leaves us in a bad situation.

So we NEED them to pan out. I'm skeptical, so we'll see how it pans out.

The roster is gonna see a serious overhaul. Our OL will look very different in 2015. Our defense will as well. We need to overhaul the LB core (minus JWill who looks to be a starter), we need a FS bc this is Rolle's last year (I believe Will Hill will be our future SS), we need at the very least 1 CB (Web's getting cut), maybe 2 CBs if Hosely is a dud, Prince doesn't take the next step, and TT/Ross both are just stop gaps.

And we need another DE as well. And DT. Kiwi will come off the books, Tuck won't be re-signed, and Austin might not be on the roster. And the rest of our DT depth is stop gaps.

So we are in for a SERIOUS overhaul, and we're gonna see a ton of holes on this team. We need some young guys to really step up and pan out to fill out our depth in some positions to stop the bleeding.

The core of the 07-11 SB championship teams will be gone after this year. It's gonna be an entirely new team outside of Eli/JPP/Nicks/Cruz in 2015.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Let's see how Nassib does. Our developmental QBs in the past have all been duds. Granted, all of them were low investments, and it's not realistic to expect 5th and 6th round QBs to develop, thats just how it is. So I won't judge them too harshly on that. That's more like throwing darts and hoping you hit a bullseye.

But Nassib is a little different. I think Nassib has a legit chance to develop into a quality starter. So let's see if they got it right this time.
Yeah Andre Woodson and Rhett Bomar are not in the NFL anymore. Yeah, and then you factor in our specific system. Hence the high IQ, leader and so on which were the attributes that Reese and Ross mentioned in their presser. So let's see if this kid can grasp the system. If he can do that, perhaps other systems in his career are easier to learn because this one was so hard to grasp.

This is important thought for Reese specifically. I would venture a guess that when Eli's heir is drafted Ross probably is a GM. So Reese has to be able to get a franchise Qb. You evaluate Lb and say this group may not be good at evaluating them. Well, this group better be able to identify a franchise Qb when time comes. That puts Reese on the clock. Two things: HC and franchise QB.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Andre Woodson and Rhett Bomar are not in the NFL anymore. Yeah, and then you factor in our specific system. Hence the high IQ, leader and so on which were the attributes that Reese and Ross mentioned in their presser. So let's see if this kid can grasp the system. If he can do that, perhaps other systems in his career are easier to learn because this one was so hard to grasp.

This is important thought for Reese specifically. I would venture a guess that when Eli's heir is drafted Ross probably is a GM. So Reese has to be able to get a franchise Qb. You evaluate Lb and say this group may not be good at evaluating them. Well, this group better be able to identify a franchise Qb when time comes. That puts Reese on the clock. Two things: HC and franchise QB.
This isn't important for Reese. It's nice if he pans out, but it's a footnote. When we need a true replacement for Eli in 6 maybe 7 years, THEN you put the spotlight on Reese.

But not now. Not even close.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Well that depends on their play. Rodgers is a stop gap but if Patterson and Jenkins play well they can stick for a few years. Kuhn and Austin are developmental guys.

I think Austin stays. I never realized how young he was. He just turned 24 in Jan. So I think we can still coach him up.

The point is we went balls out to get guys to solidify and then add depth to the two different positions. That's not including what happens if we go "4 Aces" Nascar or whatever.

So I hope when it's time we go OL with the same tenacity.
Difference is you don't rotate OL the way you do on the DL, so you don't need as much depth.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, we still have a lot to do next year. I loved this draft because it potentially frees us up to address some big needs in the back 7 like scotty said. Hopefully one of Brewer and Mosley work out, or Pugh steps up big his rookie year. That can leave us to take OL later in the draft or address it with a stop gap in FA.

The WR situation is also very in flux. If Randle doesn't take it to the next level then we need a WR early. If not, we need to address the DB situation. We might need two safeties, and at least one CB. I need to get well-acquainted with the safety class next year. Again, I don't really care about LBs. If we can address it and there's a BPA, that's cool, if not I'm not worried about. Clearly neither is Reese.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Difference is you don't rotate OL the way you do on the DL, so you don't need as much depth.
Well for other teams you do, for us we get away with it, because of versatility. We like our players to be able to play everywhere which is great. This is why the team liked Pugh. The downside is we need to find these players with this versatility.

This is why I liked Barrett Jones. If we got him, and Pugh, I'd be very, very happy because both guys can play everywhere. So now you can get away with less depth, because all the players can fill in.

Where we are now is we need to find and add these players. We are in the adding stage and waiting to see if the other guys can do anything at this point.

It's not like we run a zone system, where small OL, fit the system as does the RB. You plug, and play and every thing works. We need specific players that are versatile and we like athletic guards that have the ability to pull effectively. That's what the next add on guys should be able to do. That, to me, is the next step if we want to get back to the same blue print that made us # 1 in the league in rushing.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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This isn't important for Reese. It's nice if he pans out, but it's a footnote. When we need a true replacement for Eli in 6 maybe 7 years, THEN you put the spotlight on Reese.

But not now. Not even close.
True, I still want to see how he does though with this pick. But once Eli and Coughlin go, that's when all the spot light is on him. Guys like Tomas D. found Mike Smith and Ryan. That's a big time move on his part.

I have confidence in Reese. I just would be shocked if we swung and missed.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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We signed the following UDFAs:
- LSU TE Chase Clement

- Charleston Southern CB Charles James

- Virginia Tech OLB Alonzo Tweedy

- Ohio State LB Etienne Sabino

- Mount Union LB Charles Dieuseul

I'd say James & Tweedy got the best shot of making the roster and maybe Sabino
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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I've been watching a few of Pugh's games and I really like him. He's got great feet and is pretty agile. I really think he could play RT for us. The biggest thing I think with him is just building up his strength. He will easily be able to do that with the Giants and I think he will be a stud.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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RT from Day 1 or 2014?
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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What's up with Shane's site? I try to post on there but I keep getting an error. I am using a dated IE from work though.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
RT from Day 1 or 2014?
I mean, with Coughlin you just never know. Coughlin did give him some high praise and said he could make an impact immediately but we know he hates rookies so it's impossible to say. However, I think if Brewer sucks it up then he is probably your starting RT.

To me, for a position like offensive line, you just need to get a guy out there so he can learn. You can only teach so much in terms of blitz pick up and so on in the classroom and practice. You just need to let them go out their and learn. I think that's why as Beatty has played more he's continued to improve. He was always hurt or not starting and as a result didn't get a chance to improve his blitz pick up and pass pro, which I think is MUCH better than when we first drafted him.

I say let Pugh start. Put him at guard if you have to. Boothe would not give you better quality at guard than Pugh would, and Pugh has clearly a much higher upside.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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What's up with Shane's site? I try to post on there but I keep getting an error. I am using a dated IE from work though.
I had that problem with my first post but then it didn't happen again...
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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I can't even get to Shane's site from work right now because it's blocked. Major problem.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
What's up with Shane's site? I try to post on there but I keep getting an error. I am using a dated IE from work though.
Also, I'm not sure. I haven't had this issue so I can't really say. Could be IE. I really like the site so far. He's made a couple of changes to the forums already, which is an improvement (no more Comic Sans!).

I think this site will be successful. One of the nice things is Shane has brought over a lot of NEW people, not related to this site because he puts himself out there a ton and has gained quite a following, unlike a certain person we know who's success basically comes from being so high on search engine searches.

Strange GF can't either. I know he's made some site changes recently, so maybe that's it? Its working for me though.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
I mean, with Coughlin you just never know. Coughlin did give him some high praise and said he could make an impact immediately but we know he hates rookies so it's impossible to say. However, I think if Brewer sucks it up then he is probably your starting RT.

To me, for a position like offensive line, you just need to get a guy out there so he can learn. You can only teach so much in terms of blitz pick up and so on in the classroom and practice. You just need to let them go out their and learn. I think that's why as Beatty has played more he's continued to improve. He was always hurt or not starting and as a result didn't get a chance to improve his blitz pick up and pass pro, which I think is MUCH better than when we first drafted him.

I say let Pugh start. Put him at guard if you have to. Boothe would not give you better quality at guard than Pugh would, and Pugh has clearly a much higher upside.
I'd like to see Beatty-Pugh-Baas-Snee-Boothe from Day 1.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Also, I'm not sure. I haven't had this issue so I can't really say. Could be IE. I really like the site so far. He's made a couple of changes to the forums already, which is an improvement (no more Comic Sans!).

I think this site will be successful. One of the nice things is Shane has brought over a lot of NEW people, not related to this site because he puts himself out there a ton and has gained quite a following, unlike a certain person we know who's success basically comes from being so high on search engine searches.

Strange GF can't either. I know he's made some site changes recently, so maybe that's it? Its working for me though.
Mine is blocked because it's a new website. My company think it may create a security risk because the site isnt verified yet. I can actually advance through that unlike other sites that are hard blocked. I don't want to actually do that because I don't want an alert popping up anywhere.
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