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Old 04-28-2013, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
Bryan Broaddus ‏@BryanBroaddus 2m
@oledustytrail: @BryanBroaddus any truth to the rumors that cowboys wanted Patterson at 31 until the Vikings got him? Truth.

Seems Fredrick wasnt even our target. Panic move?
If he wasn't our first choice why does that translate to panic? Why can't that mean he was simply the next man up?
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:22 AM    (permalink
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If he wasn't our first choice why does that translate to panic? Why can't that mean he was simply the next man up?
Cuz it was a REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEACH
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:38 AM    (permalink
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Not Patterson, I would have went through the roof with anger. Thank You Minnesota for trading up and taking the Vols WR!
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:43 AM    (permalink
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If he wasn't our first choice why does that translate to panic? Why can't that mean he was simply the next man up?
You trade back with players in mind that will be there when you pick. I'm sure they had a handful of names when they made the trade down. You just hope you get one..........
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:40 AM    (permalink
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From Peter King MMQB:

14. Stop killing the Cowboys. Just stop. Dallas got the No. 1 center on many boards at 31 (Travis Frederick), filling a gaping hole; an offensive tight end to someday replace Jason Witten (Gavin Escobar) at 47; and a 51-game starter at wideout from Baylor, Terrance Williams (who averaged 19 yards a catch last year) at 74. As one GM told me Sunday: "Frederick might be a reach, but if you get a starter for your team for six or eight years -- at any position -- isn't that worth the 31st pick overall in a lousy draft?"
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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I kind of like the Cowboys draft. I don't think you can go wrong with a Badgers offensive lineman, and Frederick may be a reach but at the back end of round 1 if you can come up with a starter to shore up that line it's a good pick. Terrence Williams and Joseph Randle will be steals. Love their games. Wilcox and Escobar are intriguing, maybe a bit early for Escobar but their is no telling when he would have gone.

B.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:44 AM    (permalink
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Where did I argue he would be there at 47? I believe he would have been but thats irrevelent. My arguement is that we passed on better prospects IMO (if Im allowed to have one) and could have gotten a similar player to Fredrick at 47 if not him.
Never said that there weren't "better prospects" available. I greatly disagree with your justification that "similar" players would be available at 47 if not him though. Consensus #1 Center with the next one being taken much later in the draft. If that gap means "similar" than you shouldn't be mad as we got a similar safety in Wilcox compared to Cyprien or Elam. *shrugs*

I 100% agree with you if you are arguing that from a PURELY BPA standpoint we shouldn't of selected Frederick at 31. Problem is Dallas was in absolutely no position to draft purely based on BPA thanks to mis-management on the offensive line. If Dallas didn't select a Day 1 starter on the interior of the line our offense had a significant risk of being worse than last year.

By selecting somewhat of a project in JJ Wilcox is speaks volumes on how Kiffin feels about our safety situation. He felt safe taking a safety later in the draft that he would need to mold as opposed to feeling the need to draft someone who needed to start immediately.

The entire hindsight deal about the draft is terrible though. We know nothing about any of these prospects for about three years. Until then the gnashing of teeth is simply using the opinions of those NOT PAID by NFL teams for their services. No one gets it 100% right but to trust in the talking heads in absolutes is a bad idea. Frederick was a mid-1st round pick based on tape who dropped due to having a bad 40 time. Silliness.


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Originally Posted by SugarSean View Post
From Peter King MMQB:

14. Stop killing the Cowboys. Just stop. Dallas got the No. 1 center on many boards at 31 (Travis Frederick), filling a gaping hole; an offensive tight end to someday replace Jason Witten (Gavin Escobar) at 47; and a 51-game starter at wideout from Baylor, Terrance Williams (who averaged 19 yards a catch last year) at 74. As one GM told me Sunday: "Frederick might be a reach, but if you get a starter for your team for six or eight years -- at any position -- isn't that worth the 31st pick overall in a lousy draft?"
Ding. Ding. Ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. The most impossible fan-base in the league is Dallas fans. Even harder still that most teams hate the 'Boys so Jerry will be getting kicked for this draft for a while. If it pans out you can bet your ass the accolades will not follow.

Last edited by Trogdor : 04-29-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Cuz it was a REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEACH
It seems like there is mixed emotions on this from the talking heads, which leads me to believe that we didn't reach as bad as we thought. For instance, Scott felt we got exactly what we should have in the move down per the chart and the only team who got shafted in any move downs was Oakland in the 1st round. He also said Frederick was projected to go in the 1st for awhile now, as that blog posted a few pages ago mentioned the same thing.


There really isn't anyway to tell where he would have gone, and I fully admit that I am no draft guru but I've read from a few guys who are deep into the draft that it wasn't a reach at all so I find it hard to believe with certainty that it was a big of a reach as it seemed initially.


I've seen a ton of places label him as a 2nd round prospect and a guy to not be surprised to see him go in the 1st, and the last 3-4 picks of the 1st round traditionally end up taking 2nd round value players every year. I would much rather have Frederick at 31 + that 3rd then Eifert at 18, or a flashy WR at 18 that wouldn't help much. The pick is growing on me, I didn't think Jerry would ever take a boring pick like a Center but it's a huge need for us and so is protecting our QB. I'm willing to give him a chance and see if he can earn his 1st round grade before trasing him too hard, but I'll still always compare him to the 2 other Safeties, Floyd, and the mid round Centers.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SugarSean View Post
From Peter King MMQB:

14. Stop killing the Cowboys. Just stop. Dallas got the No. 1 center on many boards at 31 (Travis Frederick), filling a gaping hole; an offensive tight end to someday replace Jason Witten (Gavin Escobar) at 47; and a 51-game starter at wideout from Baylor, Terrance Williams (who averaged 19 yards a catch last year) at 74. As one GM told me Sunday: "Frederick might be a reach, but if you get a starter for your team for six or eight years -- at any position -- isn't that worth the 31st pick overall in a lousy draft?"
Can you provide a link to this?
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Okay so I've had a few days to digest our draft and ready to comment on it.

My initial reaction to the Frederick pick was pretty much HUH! First off I felt that JJ didn't get good value for trading back 13 picks. To only get a 3rd rounder, I was disappointed. I do feel Frederick was a reach @ 31 in the 1st and that we could've picked him up in the 2nd round or maybe in the 3rd with our 1st pick. However, after watching the tape on him I have grown to really like the pick. We've all been very down on our Center play and we finally did something about it. So I won't be down on that pick. He's a very smart and fundamentally sound player. He should step in day 1 and be the starter. Can also play guard as well.

Day 2 picks. When Escobar's name was called I gave myself a self high five. Ever since the combine I had my eye on him. We caught a lot of grief over this pick, with many saying Witten is still in his prime, yadda yadda. A lot of teams are moving towards more 2 TE sets and one of those TE's being a very athletic player that can get down the field. We may indeed have this now with Escobar. While I was curious to see how Hannah would play this year, he just didn't give us enough last year that made you feel 100% confident he'd make huge strides. I liked this pick a lot.

I was VERY surprised to hear Terrance Williams name called in the 3rd. Again not a huge need, but a very talented player that early on was predicted to go in the 1st in some mocks. Highly productive in college and has great size and good speed. I like the pick a lot. We feel Harris might be that guy, but you never know.

JJ Wilcox- very solid pick. He'll come in and from day 1 will compete for a starting job. You always have to worry about small school guys, but he sure looks the part though.

Round 4- BW Webb, I had been very concerned about our depth at CB and was hoping we wouldn't wait until the end of the draft to address CB. I feel we got great value in this pick. BW could've gone in the 2nd round.

Round 5- Joseph Randle- outside of Escobar, I have to say this was my favorite pick of our draft. I honestly jumped up in the air in excitement over this pick. I saw someone mocking him to us a week agao and started watching some Youtube video's and I got excited. There's a play against Texas where he broke a 60+yd TD and in the process juked the hell out of Kenny Vaccaro. Since then I was hoping we'd get him. I believe he's going to be a very capable back up and can help spell Murray.

Round 6- Holloman- I know absolutely nothing about this guy, but apparently Kiffin likes him and feels he'll be able to play SLB.

I haven't looked much at our UDFA's yes. Overall, I'm very pleased with our draft. I don't believe in grading drafts this early so I won't grade it.

I'd say I wish we would've drafted a DT and a Guard. But with Frederick having the ability to play G, I'm okay with not getting one.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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We're getting killed because of our reputation and the national media tends to ride Jerrah harder.

Some of the criticism is valid, but I think addressing interior OL and safety with premium picks is something I've been begging them to do for years.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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The people defending this pick are acting as if we got Nick Mangold.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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People are going to think w/e they want to think. At the end of the day we drafted a 2nd round graded player with our late 1st round pick. Reach...maybe...but reaching for a day 1 starter with position flexibility and smarts seems passable by me. Everyone of us in this room hated Costa...we all were on Cook once he started thinking he might be the future...we are talking about a guy who couldn't make it in MN or MIA as a ol....and he is the guy we were getting excited about last year. Needless to say reach or not I can't be upset about the pick at all. People slam Jerry for taking the skill positions earlier...but he moved down and picked up an interior starter. Hell I'd been asking for this for months. Our biggest need was our top pick...and people are still upset?

Say what you want about the value..but there is no way of knowing that he'd have been there at 47. After the fact we can all bicker....but if he goes and the Cowboys really see that much of a difference between him and the other C's....I'd read multiple reports that we weren't high on Barrett Jones. I know alot of people in here liked him..but if reports are accurate it really boiled down to Fredrick vs. schwenke ....and Fredrick is a much better player in my eyes. Some teams probably had schwenke higher if they value'd mobility for their center...but clearly dallas was looking for someone to control the front of the pocket. I have to agree with Romo...thanks for the extra half second. Heaven forbid Free gets beat around the edge and Romo can actually step up this year. This pick isn't a A+ by any means but it is a solid B.

Every pick after the 1st imo held good value. Escobar was a bit of a surprise...but for all the people bitching about value at 31....look at the rest of the draft...you see the value.

Read today that 7 of the first 17 picks were OL. That is absolutely ludicrous to think that many OL went top 10. Sure dallas got scared...did you guys really want a repeat of 2009...where we wait till the 2nd to get our guy and then have a team like Seattle move up and steal Unger...then the draft class went to **** for OL. We had a big need and addressed it.

BTW I'd have to say good job on the removal of Drew...because coming into this thread over the draft actually pushed me away from posting. It's ok to get your thoughts and feelings out...but after soo long it becomes beating a dead horse.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I know I have already committed on the Draft, but wanted to make one more point.

In every business people in charge tend to pick people who they feel they can work with. It is not always the most talented or the most qualified, but the person who u believe we have the best impact on ur organization. While some people will complain about our picks....lets give them time to be part of the team before we put them down.

Every player drafted had to produce and like other players they will be judged on how they play.

It's fun to play the what if game and that player is better than that player.....but in reality we don't know how players will react to the NFL.

Yes we have a old DL, but when u look at it who would u cut....at the most u can only draft 1 or 2 but who would u cut or release. The game is not just about cuting and putting who u draft...their are other implications that have to be considered also.

Am I happy with the draft..........yes. Could we have done better? Who knows.

Did the y draft who I wanted? NO.........but they never do and I am still a fan.

I support the team.......That's why I am a fan!

My pet cat this year is the LB Magee......
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Magee is essentially our 7th rounder. We have him more guaranteed money as a UDFA than every 7th rounder. We went after him hard. Sounds a lot like what we did with Leary last year.

If you run through all of our UDFA's they are all EXCELLENT athletes especially those on the defensive side of the ball. If the reports of Kiffin are true, in that his system is simple and reliant on speed and maintaining responsibilities, we could have some very high upside players both from the draft and post-draft UDFAs.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Can you provide a link to this?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-nf...r_a2&eref=sihp


It was a good read, really long edition. I've also seen other people not tied to the organization say the same thing in regards to Frederick. It's a mixed bag, but it seems to me that he was going in the 2nd round regardless, taking him at the very end of the 1st isn't a big deal to me seeing as how we have needed this area to get fixed for years now.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I missed it, what happened with Drewy?
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
chrlopez1
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For those of you who live in the Dallas Area.......How hard is it to get Cowboys Tix? Either on GameDay or on Stub Hub.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
pocketaces
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Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post
Never said that there weren't "better prospects" available. I greatly disagree with your justification that "similar" players would be available at 47 if not him though. Consensus #1 Center with the next one being taken much later in the draft. If that gap means "similar" than you shouldn't be mad as we got a similar safety in Wilcox compared to Cyprien or Elam. *shrugs*

I 100% agree with you if you are arguing that from a PURELY BPA standpoint we shouldn't of selected Frederick at 31. Problem is Dallas was in absolutely no position to draft purely based on BPA thanks to mis-management on the offensive line. If Dallas didn't select a Day 1 starter on the interior of the line our offense had a significant risk of being worse than last year.

By selecting somewhat of a project in JJ Wilcox is speaks volumes on how Kiffin feels about our safety situation. He felt safe taking a safety later in the draft that he would need to mold as opposed to feeling the need to draft someone who needed to start immediately.

The entire hindsight deal about the draft is terrible though. We know nothing about any of these prospects for about three years. Until then the gnashing of teeth is simply using the opinions of those NOT PAID by NFL teams for their services. No one gets it 100% right but to trust in the talking heads in absolutes is a bad idea. Frederick was a mid-1st round pick based on tape who dropped due to having a bad 40 time. Silliness.




Ding. Ding. Ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. The most impossible fan-base in the league is Dallas fans. Even harder still that most teams hate the 'Boys so Jerry will be getting kicked for this draft for a while. If it pans out you can bet your ass the accolades will not follow.
Ok so we both agree that we got shafted in the trade. We both agree there were better prospects on the board. We both agree we drafted for need over value. The question I guess is what we could have gotten at 47. To say that the #2 Center was taken much later than Federick proves that Fredrick is the superior prospect is a joke IMO. It just proves what a reach it really was. Let me just ask EVERYBODY on this board, play along with me. Jerry Jones comes to this board and says Im going to let you guys pick our first 2 draft picks but you have to pick it from this grouping, the most votes wins.

Group (A) Eifert and Warford. (B) Floyd and Warford (C) With a trade down Cyprien and Warford and Williams (D) Elam and Warford and Williams or (E) Fredrick and Escobar and Williams

Now if you guys are honest, there is NOT ONE person on this board that would have taken group (E). Not only that but even if we didnt trade down we still probably would have gotten Williams in the 3rd if we wanted him over Wilcox. Anybody going to argue against that?
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by chrlopez1 View Post
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For those of you who live in the Dallas Area.......How hard is it to get Cowboys Tix? Either on GameDay or on Stub Hub.
I dont live in Dallas but I go to the games. Its not hard if you have the cash. The only game I couldnt find tix for last year was against the Steelers
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by leroyisgod View Post
I missed it, what happened with Drewy?
He was acting all high and mighty and that his opinion mattered while every other Cowboys fan was just on their knees for Jerry
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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The people defending this pick are acting as if we got Nick Mangold.
Hyperbole much?
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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It seems like there is mixed emotions on this from the talking heads, which leads me to believe that we didn't reach as bad as we thought. For instance, Scott felt we got exactly what we should have in the move down per the chart and the only team who got shafted in any move downs was Oakland in the 1st round. He also said Frederick was projected to go in the 1st for awhile now, as that blog posted a few pages ago mentioned the same thing.


There really isn't anyway to tell where he would have gone, and I fully admit that I am no draft guru but I've read from a few guys who are deep into the draft that it wasn't a reach at all so I find it hard to believe with certainty that it was a big of a reach as it seemed initially.


I've seen a ton of places label him as a 2nd round prospect and a guy to not be surprised to see him go in the 1st, and the last 3-4 picks of the 1st round traditionally end up taking 2nd round value players every year. I would much rather have Frederick at 31 + that 3rd then Eifert at 18, or a flashy WR at 18 that wouldn't help much. The pick is growing on me, I didn't think Jerry would ever take a boring pick like a Center but it's a huge need for us and so is protecting our QB. I'm willing to give him a chance and see if he can earn his 1st round grade before trasing him too hard, but I'll still always compare him to the 2 other Safeties, Floyd, and the mid round Centers.
Scott had him ranked 55 which would mean he should/would be there at our 47 pick right? Also we were screwed according to the chart value. 18th pick = 900 31st = 600 we got back 220. An even trade would have been the 60th pick(2nd round) and we got back the 74th pick. iDK how that is exactly what we should have gotten back.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Can you provide a link to this?



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-nf...&eref=sihp#all
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Scott had him ranked 55 which would mean he should/would be there at our 47 pick right? Also we were screwed according to the chart value. 18th pick = 900 31st = 600 we got back 220. An even trade would have been the 60th pick(2nd round) and we got back the 74th pick. iDK how that is exactly what we should have gotten back.
Actually, that's not how it works for Scott. His ranking on players doesn't equate to where they will be drafted. That's more about how good he thinks they are. Doesn't mean Frederick ranked 55 would have been available at 47. That's a misinterpretation.

If you want to know what Scott thought about what the Cowboys should do, BTB had an interview with him and Tony Pauline. This is what Scott said himself.

BTB: I'd like to begin by talking about prospects at each of the Cowboys offensive "need" positions. Lets start with the spot of greatest need: the "big uglies" on the O-line. Lets start at Center. The team has a backlog of guys at center, but the players they have are all journeymen. So, they don't need another one of those; if they choose to address this position via the draft, Dallas will need him to provide an upgrade. Can you give us a list of names of guys who, in your estimation, are plug-and-play types who are ready to start as rookies?

Scott Wright: The cream of the crop is Travis Frederick of Wisconsin, who could also project to guard at the next level. Frederick just happens to be a great fit for Dallas too, although it's probably 50/50 as to whether he makes it to their pick in round two. The other early to mid round talents in the pivot (Barrett Jones of Alabama, Brian Schwenke of Cal and Khaled Holmes of USC) wouldn't be as good of fits for Dallas

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/...itions-of-need

So how can you really harp on the idea that we reached so badly? We already traded down rather than take him at 18. Scott admits that Frederick would've been doubtful to reach Dallas in Round 2. It was reported that Frederick's agent said he had a promise in Round 2. Many think that was Detroit. When you factor in the the information that is out there, you should recognize that it wasn't a big reach. You don't think he could've still been there in the 3rd anymore... right?
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