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Old 05-02-2013, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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Clowney is a monster but does anyone else get the feeling he'll be one of those players thats really full of themselves kind of what Lebron was early in his career? I think he's going to take a few bumps early before he becomes the NFL's best DL.
I have a buddy who goes to the University of South Carolina and says he's pretty full of himself. He just sits in class with his head phones on and does nothing.

But hey, if that's the worst of it, I don't mind. He tries hard and has a relentless motor. That's what matters at the end of the day.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Athletes are full of themselves. That's just how it is. When every woman on campus is throwing their panties at you, you can do whatever you want, you get paid under the table, every person you contact is slobbing your knob, and you're about to make millions of dollars you're gonna be full of yourself.

As long as you produce and keep your nose clean off the field the rest doesn't matter.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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It can still have a negative affect. I'm not saying it's going to hold him back but it's something to keep an eye on for sure.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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True. He can wind up being Justin Tuck.

ZING!

Sorry GF.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Yeah who would want a 2 time SB champion who was a monster against the run AND a very good pass rusher who is a consummate teammate and professional. He also took way under market on his one big contract.

I can't believe I hate ND and I'm the one who constantly defends Tuck.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Haha, I think Tuck gets railed too hard. He's been a great player (until recently) for us. It's hard to defend him now though. He sucked for two-thirds of the season the year before, and sucked the entire year this year. And he just seemed to not care.

Again, I do not care about the whole leadership crap people like to complain about. It's about his on the field play. The fact you have to references things that have happened in the past to justify him now is a little silly.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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That's the problem. Tuck's just not a good player anymore. I love him for what he did, but he really shouldn't be on the team anymore.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Haha, I think Tuck gets railed too hard. He's been a great player (until recently) for us. It's hard to defend him now though. He sucked for two-thirds of the season the year before, and sucked the entire year this year. And he just seemed to not care.

Again, I do not care about the whole leadership crap people like to complain about. It's about his on the field play. The fact you have to references things that have happened in the past to justify him now is a little silly.
Huhhhh? I haven't defended his play. I'm defending him as a Giant because everyone bashes him for his off the field comments. That stuff is ridiculous. I've never said he was playing well when he hasn't been. I hope he can regain some form but I'm not hopeful on it.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Huhhhh? I haven't defended his play. I'm defending him as a Giant because everyone bashes him for his off the field comments. That stuff is ridiculous. I've never said he was playing well when he hasn't been. I hope he can regain some form but I'm not hopeful on it.
I mean, I only talk about talk as a player on the Giants. And right now, he sucks. That's what he's proven the past couple years (for the most part). Tuck's comments do bother me sometimes. The whole, "We can just turn it on whenever" philosophy is idiotic.

I love him for his contributions, but it's not like he's been nearly one of the best Giants in recent history. Dude's been with us 8 years and has only had three good season. Granted, some of that was marred by injury and being stuck behind Osi/Strahan, but nonetheless.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I respect Tuck and appreciate all he's done for us, but I don't think he's ever done enough to earn the accolades he's received. And he definitely shouldn't be the spokesman of our defense with his we'll turn it on whenever nonsense.

I know you guys don't like hearing about his lack of leadership skills, but it really does bother me. If you don't want the scrutiny that comes with the leadership role, then take the C off your chest.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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If the players voted him captain which they did they obviously respect him and that's all that matters. I'm done with this.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I respect Tuck and appreciate all he's done for us, but I don't think he's ever done enough to earn the accolades he's received. And he definitely shouldn't be the spokesman of our defense with his we'll turn it on whenever nonsense.

I know you guys don't like hearing about his lack of leadership skills, but it really does bother me. If you don't want the scrutiny that comes with the leadership role, then take the C off your chest.
WHy because of his moopy attitude especially if he is injured? I think he is an emotional player, who if he is not playing up to par because he is hurt or in general, he puts himself on the couch, and checks out. I think that heart to heart with TC in 2011 was important for him to check back in and go all in.

I think he can be a vocal leader and shown it. But if he is hurt and not playing well, I think he probably feels like, he should be the last person to talk because he is not playing well as per the Americas game. I still think a leader still has to be vocal no matter what. Even if you are playing not well, you have to be consistent and keep being a leader.

Also, he seemed to be a quiet guy thrust into the role. Osi was never a leader, and after Strahan retired, I remember the media going up to him asking him if he will be a vocal leader now that Strahan retired. Maybe he was never the right guy, but did it because no one else would. Strahan and AP retired. So who would be the leader? I think Tuck, by default, good or bad took the mantle.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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After looking at our offseason and draft, I think we have a fairly clear idea of what our defense is likely to do.

Firstly we have brought in a lot of talent. We have some young guys with ability who need to step up and we have experienced veterans who can provide leadership, mentor the young guys and in some cases bring experiences from other teams.

We have effective pass rushing packages with our four DEs and 3 safety sets. We should have the staff for that. It looks like we will have heavy run stuffing packages with a pair of big 2 gap DTs to stop the run. I would expect to see Kiwanuka at SLB in these sets.

All of this means that we will need fewer traditional LBs on the field. Guys like Conner, Williams, Rivers, Paysinger, Herzlich and Muasa really all fit the mold.

I do hope we bring in an experienced vet at MLB such as Urlacher, Dansby, Daryl Smith or trade for a guy like Desmond Bishop. He played well stepping in when Nick Barnett got hurt and shouldn't be expensive (picks or salary) as he missed last year with a hamstring injury (which required surgery). If Bishop is healthy he would be an ideal fit.

I just checked and Bishop signed a a four-year, $19.05 million contract in 2010. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed and $2 million in roster and workout bonuses. His base salaries are 2013: $3.464 million, 2014: $3.522 million.

I also think Cullen Jenkins may be the most important addition this offseason.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Has anyone heard anymore about the idea of flipping Tuck and Pierre-Paul, basically using Tuck at RDE and Pierre-Paul at LDE?
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I haven't heard anything about it other than that one article we all read. It makes absolutely no sense to me though.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I haven't heard anything about it other than that one article we all read. It makes absolutely no sense to me though.
I guess the issue is that the front office believes that JPP while physical enough isn't beating left tackles with his speed and quickness and that Tuck isn't beating RT with his power.

So by flipping them it creates bigger mis-mmatches where Tuck beats LTs with power and JPP beats RT with speed and quickness. The end result is more ability to actually get to the QB rather than just pressure.

Both JPP and Tuck have the tools to play either side.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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I guess the issue is that the front office believes that JPP while physical enough isn't beating left tackles with his speed and quickness and that Tuck isn't beating RT with his power.

So by flipping them it creates bigger mis-mmatches where Tuck beats LTs with power and JPP beats RT with speed and quickness. The end result is more ability to actually get to the QB rather than just pressure.

Both JPP and Tuck have the tools to play either side.
Maybe it is also a plan to reduce the effectiveness of double teams
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:19 AM    (permalink
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I don't see it. JPP is 10x more effective at his natural RE position, that's where most of his hurries and sacks are generated.

And to be an effective RE you need speed to stretch the LT. This is important bc you want to give your 3 tech more space btw him and the LG to operate so he can shoot the gap and bring pressure inside.

Tuck is neither strong or fast at this point in his career. Tuck is simply not a good player anymore.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to see JPP and Kiwi start with Tuck coming off the bench in certain situations. I think Tuck can perform better with limited snaps and less wear and tear. He might have a better burst off the line if we can limit him.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:33 AM    (permalink
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I think at this point, if we want to maximize Tuck we need to bring him in on 3rd down as a pass rushing 3 tech. Let Kiwi and JPP play the Ends with Moore and Tracy backing them up. Tracy as RE and Moore as LE.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:46 AM    (permalink
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I'm fine with that. I think the biggest think I'm excited about for preseason games is to see the development of the young DE's like Tracy and Ojomo. We need them to step up their game.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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I like Tracy more than Ojomo. A lot more actually. I think Tracy has the tools to become a productive pass rusher.

Ojomo is too slow off the line. All his sacks in PS were effort sacks vs inferior competition. Those sacks won't translate to the regular season. Tracy can beat you with speed and has underrated power. And he can play Joker too. Tracy is a good player that needs to stick on our roster, I'm a big Tracy fan.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:55 AM    (permalink
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I'm not going to sit here and tell you I remember every sack Ojomo had in the preseason last year but I do remember 1 or 2 that weren't what you described. I don't know if he's going to be a player or JAG but it'll be fun to watch. I don't have a favorite between the 2 but I do expect Tracy to be better all around.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
I'm not going to sit here and tell you I remember every sack Ojomo had in the preseason last year but I do remember 1 or 2 that weren't what you described. I don't know if he's going to be a player or JAG but it'll be fun to watch. I don't have a favorite between the 2 but I do expect Tracy to be better all around.
Look him up on youtube. Someone had (hope it's still there) a cut up of every snap he played in the PS.

He got better as he got more reps, but the speed off the line was a recurring theme.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:10 AM    (permalink
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Here's a thought I had yesterday and didnt get around to post and something I'll try to expand on later when I'm not on my phone but if the giants have a top two pick or something, I think I'd rather us go with Lewan over Clowney
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