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Old 05-07-2013, 08:51 PM    (permalink
Big Bird
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I was at the Cornell Pro Day and scouts came up to me specifically asking who in the weight room Mathews was. They were very excited and intrigued by him. They wanted to see him in person to size him up. They can't talk to him yet since he is still in school.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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I was at the Cornell Pro Day and scouts came up to me specifically asking who in the weight room Mathews was. They were very excited and intrigued by him. They wanted to see him in person to size him up. They can't talk to him yet since he is still in school.
I know I read that. That's a pretty cool nugget of info.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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I know I read that. That's a pretty cool nugget of info.
Didn't realize I already posted that here. Oops... lol
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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I don't care how good that kid from Cornell is. No Ivy League QB is ever going to be drafted earlier than the 4th/5th round which is generous.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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The kid looks good throwing the football. Prototypical pocket style passer that makes all the throws, and makes 'em look easy. Athleticism or lack thereof isn't really a big deal. I'll take unathletic pocket style passers anyday over athletic beasts that can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Then you look at the fact that he's been sacked 105 times in 3 years. Seriously? There's something wrong there.
So he's got Andre Woodson-itis? I don't care how bad your OL is, you shouldn't get sacked that much in the Ivy League. Jake Locker fans wouldnt even make that excuse.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:26 AM    (permalink
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I don't care how good that kid from Cornell is. No Ivy League QB is ever going to be drafted earlier than the 4th/5th round which is generous.
That makes perfect sense... I'm surprised you don't have NFL GM jobs waiting for you by the handful.

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So he's got Andre Woodson-itis? I don't care how bad your OL is, you shouldn't get sacked that much in the Ivy League. Jake Locker fans wouldnt even make that excuse.
Most of that is skewed by his freshman season.

Flacco was sacked 51 times over his last two seasons. Mathews has been sacked 57 times over his sophomore and junior seasons, improving each year. I'm not going to act like it isn't a bad number, but he has improved steadily in that department each of the past two years, displays solid pocket presence on film, and still has another year to go.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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That makes perfect sense... I'm surprised you don't have NFL GM jobs waiting for you by the handful.


Most of that is skewed by his freshman season.

Flacco was sacked 51 times over his last two seasons. Mathews has been sacked 57 times over his sophomore and junior seasons, improving each year. I'm not going to act like it isn't a bad number, but he has improved steadily in that department each of the past two years, displays solid pocket presence on film, and still has another year to go.

If you know of any example of an Ivy League QB graded as a 1st/2nd round prospect and taken in those rounds, please inform me.

It's not just questions about their individual talent, it's also a question about their level of competition. ALso the Ivy league doesn't play in the 1AA playoffs, so they're rarely tested by top tier programs outside of their conference.

I just don't see how a GM justifies taking an Ivy League QB that high in the modern era.

This thread is about QB prospects who potentially are going to end up ranked the #1 prospect in the 2014 class. Mentioning Mathews in this thread is silly.

Mathews may be an NFL prospect, but there's no way he's ever going to be the top QB in this class.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he'll be the #1 QB, although there have been Ivy League QB's that have somehow held on to starting jobs in the NFL despite having a fraction of the talent that Mathews has.

I suppose if a GM is able to justify any draft pick from the Ivy Leagues, it's probably going to be it's quarterbacks.

There's little doubt that Mathews is significantly more physically gifted than Ryan Fitzpatrick or Jay Fiedler.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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If you know of any example of an Ivy League QB graded as a 1st/2nd round prospect and taken in those rounds, please inform me.

It's not just questions about their individual talent, it's also a question about their level of competition. ALso the Ivy league doesn't play in the 1AA playoffs, so they're rarely tested by top tier programs outside of their conference.

I just don't see how a GM justifies taking an Ivy League QB that high in the modern era.

This thread is about QB prospects who potentially are going to end up ranked the #1 prospect in the 2014 class. Mentioning Mathews in this thread is silly.

Mathews may be an NFL prospect, but there's no way he's ever going to be the top QB in this class.
So just because his conference hasn't produced a top level talent means it's never going to happen? I guess the Giants were pretty stupid for taking Phil Simms 7th overall when Morehead State had only had one player drafted before that and that the Pioneer League hasn't produced anybody else since then except journeyman Josh Johnson.

Watch Mathews, actually watch him, and you will understand why he deserves to be mentioned. Talent can be found anywhere. The blanket statement you're laying out of "if he is a small-schooler, he automatically doesn't have talent" is so ignorant, it baffles me. All those small schools should probably just roll over and stop trying because they obviously don't have talent...
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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So just because his conference hasn't produced a top level talent means it's never going to happen? I guess the Giants were pretty stupid for taking Phil Simms 7th overall when Morehead State had only had one player drafted before that and that the Pioneer League hasn't produced anybody else since then except journeyman Josh Johnson.

Watch Mathews, actually watch him, and you will understand why he deserves to be mentioned. Talent can be found anywhere. The blanket statement you're laying out of "if he is a small-schooler, he automatically doesn't have talent" is so ignorant, it baffles me. All those small schools should probably just roll over and stop trying because they obviously don't have talent...
He's not saying that he doesn't have talent but the reality of the game now is that there is a lot of stock put into level on competition when evaluating prospects. He may have talent and dominate but he won't be able to show that against the highest competition until the Senior Bowl and all star games because of the limitations of his conference. No fault of his own, really. He could become the best QB in the class, but he won't be rated first on any team big boards.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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If a guy is talent the NFL will find him. He may not be the #1, but with a good senior bowl and post season testing he could be a first rounder. Teams need QBs.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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If a guy is talent the NFL will find him. He may not be the #1, but with a good senior bowl and post season testing he could be a first rounder. Teams need QBs.
Mike Catapano stand up.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Mike Catapano stand up.
He never went to the Senior Bowl and if you actually watch the film on him, he isn't anything special.

Mathews actually has a very good skillset. Great size and arm strength. Intelligent player on the field who displays incredible accuracy and ball placement.

I'm really hoping Mathews ends up in the Senior Bowl. That's what made Flacco a 1st round lock. I do agree he needs to face top level competition and the only way to do that will be in an all-star game.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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That makes perfect sense... I'm surprised you don't have NFL GM jobs waiting for you by the handful.


Most of that is skewed by his freshman season.

Flacco was sacked 51 times over his last two seasons. Mathews has been sacked 57 times over his sophomore and junior seasons, improving each year. I'm not going to act like it isn't a bad number, but he has improved steadily in that department each of the past two years, displays solid pocket presence on film, and still has another year to go.
I'll make a chance to watch him but we'll see.

IIRC Flacco was one of those guys who would run out of bounds two yards behind in the line of scrimmage a lot. Maybe that's part of what Mathews does to inflate that number...
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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He's kind of a poor man's Sam Bradford. Since Bradford hasnt done much of note in the league, I don't know what that means for Renner's stock.

I hope all the people who like Boyd actually watch him this year.
Renner is doing alot more with less offensive talent around him then Bradford had at OU. Renner is being criminally underrated - he is a very good QB and athlete. He was a WR before transitioning to QB Junior year of HS. I saw him play as a sophmore in HS as a WR - pretty impressive. Everyone is overrating the two other ACC QBs - Boyd and Logan Thomas (why he is even considered a legit QB prospect at this point is beyoned me).

If Renner comes out and has a good game against Carolina that should really help put him on everyone's radar.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Renner is doing alot more with less offensive talent around him then Bradford had at OU. Renner is being criminally underrated - he is a very good QB and athlete. He was a WR before transitioning to QB Junior year of HS. I saw him play as a sophmore in HS as a WR - pretty impressive. Everyone is overrating the two other ACC QBs - Boyd and Logan Thomas (why he is even considered a legit QB prospect at this point is beyoned me).

If Renner comes out and has a good game against Carolina that should really help put him on everyone's radar.
Yeah but he's not Logan Thomas.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but he's not Logan Thomas.
Ha yea. Sad but true.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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I would probably put Renner above Boyd and Thomas (Thomas is no question and I don't like Boyd) but he's not as good as his numbers. His arm is just ok and when he gets knocked around it bothers him. I think he's already had a couple concussions too...
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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So I've seen some things like "I hope the people who like Tajh Boyd actually watch him this year..." and "He's just too inconsistent."

As someone who's watched several of his games from start to finish, I see a quarterback who has a good build, who doesn't get many balls knocked down at the line due to his relative lack of height because he has good mobility and pocket awareness, has good arm strength and accuracy, can improvise and make a play when things break down because he can buy time and evade the rush while keeping his eyes downfield, has the athleticism to evade the rush and pick up free yards, trusts his receivers and his knowledge of the playbook to throw to spots before his receivers make their breaks, and has great poise and composure under pressure. I kind of think the "inconsistent" label sometimes gets pretty lazily applied to quarterbacks who don't strike someone's fancy for some reason or another. I think Boyd would've been the first QB off the board this year. He'd certainly have been first on my board.

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Old 05-09-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Renner has a weak arm and folds under pressure. He played behind an outstanding OL last year (Jonathan Cooper, two other 2013 draft picks and another tackle who will be a top pick in 2014). He plays in the gimmicky offense where he is throwing screens more than throwing the ball downfield.

Boyd and Logan have there issues but I'll take either any day over Renner.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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So I've seen some things like "I hope the people who like Tajh Boyd actually watch him this year..." and "He's just too inconsistent."

As someone who's watched several of his games from start to finish, I see a quarterback who has a good build, who doesn't get many balls knocked down at the line due to his relative lack of height because he has good mobility and pocket awareness, has good arm strength and accuracy, can improvise and make a play when things break down because he can buy time and evade the rush while keeping his eyes downfield, has the athleticism to evade the rush and pick up free yards, trusts his receivers and his knowledge of the playbook to throw to spots before his receivers make their breaks, and has great poise and composure under pressure. I kind of think the "inconsistent" label sometimes gets pretty lazily applied to quarterbacks who don't strike someone's fancy for some reason or another. I think Boyd would've been the first QB off the board this year. He'd certainly have been first on my board.
As the guy who made one of those statements, I would rather have Manuel. And that's not because I like Manuel. Had him as a 3rd-4th rounder.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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It appears that QB guru's Steve Clarkson and George Whitfield have each chosen one of their students as the QB that they feel is the best in next years NFL Draft. Clarkson told Fox Sports that he feels Brett Hundley could have been the top pick in this years draft. Whitfield on the other hand told Bucky Brooks of NFL Network that he feels Tajh Boyd is the most complete QB in next years draft. Whitfield also talked about two of his other students, Logan Thomas and Johnny Manziel, but he gave the highest praise to Boyd.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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As the guy who made one of those statements, I would rather have Manuel. And that's not because I like Manuel. Had him as a 3rd-4th rounder.
What do you look for in a quarterback that Boyd is lacking?
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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To be perfectly honest I like a number of the seniors, and plenty of the '14 eligible guys. Plenty of guys who could elevate their way into the first round.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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To be perfectly honest I like a number of the seniors, and plenty of the '14 eligible guys. Plenty of guys who could elevate their way into the first round.
I completely agree. There are a hand full of guys that could emerge to be the top QB. It is going to come down to who has a good year and how well they perform at combines and pro days. I think Bridewater is the front runner at this point with Boyd behind him. There are a few guys that could be in that top 5 range if they decide to come out. I think David Fales could be the one surprise guy. The only big weakness I see with him is he doesnt have the arm for the deep ball. I hear people knock him for his arm strength but he makes all the intermediate throws with zip on them. I also like Aaron Murray a lot. He reminds me of drew brees. I actually think he will emerge as the top QB when its all said and done.
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