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Old 05-22-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Default How Good is Johnny Manziel?

I expect he'll be a little differant in style this year, a little more bulked up and better with his footwork. Size wise there are plenty of success stories of guys his size or smaller so not sure that is an issue. Arm seems a little underrated but not great.

I see Manziel as the wildcard as far as QBs go and having the potential to be taken right at the top of the draft.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm sticking with the unpopular thing I said at the end of the season: "It's going to take some serious conditioning and deep accuracy work to make him an NFL player in ANY round."

If he declares for the draft looking like he did last season, he's going to be the latest footnote in the enormous book of college-only QBs.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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I'm sticking with the unpopular thing I said at the end of the season: "It's going to take some serious conditioning and deep accuracy work to make him an NFL player in ANY round."

If he declares for the draft looking like he did last season, he's going to be the latest footnote in the enormous book of college-only QBs.
I agree with pretty much all of this. But from listening to him, it sounds like he is very seriously considering declaring.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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I agree with pretty much all of this. But from listening to him, it sounds like he is very seriously considering declaring.
Agreed with the last 2 assessments, he is a good college QB with no real NFL future. He plays in a system offense that puts up gawdy numbers that distract people from the fact he doesn't have close to the discipline needed to be a good NFL QB (or even average). He has never come across as being very bright either, so leaving early isn't shocking.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I think people want to compare him with Russell Wilson. A short athletic QB had success so we should stop looking at size as a negative. But that isn't how it works. Anquan Boldin being an extremely successful receiver despite running a 4.7 doesn't mean we shouldn't care if future receivers run slowly.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Boldin ran on a bad knee.

Wilson was a pocket passer, who had good accuracy but way always knocked for his height. His work ethic was like non other, and knew how to find the throwing lane between his line.

Johnny, well let me watch some on him. All I know he scrambles and throws.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Manziel is a terrific college quarterback, but his pro future will not be quite as promising. I see him translating to a Jeff Garcia type QB in the NFL.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, someone brought up Russell Wilson in the old Manziel thread. Confused me because they're not so similar. Wilson was a better passer, is more intelligent as far as avoiding contact, and has arms that are practically the size of Manziel's legs. Seriously, they're not in the same ballpark when it comes to dat hit-absorbing lean mass.



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Old 05-22-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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I think if you look at his size, arm and impact on a football game I think he compares to someone like a Joe Montana. As to what that means as far as where you get drafted it's hard to say. Obviously in hindsight it translates to the top of the draft.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I think if you look at his size, arm and impact on a football game I think he compares to someone like a Joe Montana. As to what that means as far as where you get drafted it's hard to say. Obviously in hindsight it translates to the top of the draft.
Ehhh, Montana was 6'2. While Manziel is listed as 6'1, I doubt he actually ends up that tall.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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This is a very scary photo. Chris Paul is 5'11 in socks. Standing next to Manziel, who's taller??


Next to Teo who measured 6'1 at the combine, Manziel looks under 6 foot to me.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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This is a very scary photo. Chris Paul is 5'11 in socks. Standing next to Manziel, who's taller??


Next to Teo who measured 6'1 at the combine, Manziel looks under 6 foot to me.
I think Paul was 5-11 3/4 Pre draft.

My Guess is Johnny will measure 6-0 210 at the combine. SEC defenses would probably be the first to say he's big enough.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Ehhh, Montana was 6'2. While Manziel is listed as 6'1, I doubt he actually ends up that tall.
By and large at the time most NFL players were smaller though, so 6'2 back then would be like 6'4 today.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I think Paul was 5-11 3/4 Pre draft.

My Guess is Johnny will measure 6-0 210 at the combine. SEC defenses would probably be the first to say he's big enough.
This does not compute. Paul was 5'11 3/4. Manziel is pictured being shorter than Paul. Thus Manziel will measure taller than Paul.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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That 5'11 3/4 for Paul was measured in shoes BTW.
I think Manziel is just a hair taller than 5'11.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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As of today, I don't think he is a NFL starting QB. The size and lack of arm strength are very concerning. When you watch him play, he is definitely fun to watch because he seems to make a play 95% of the time whether it's buying more time to throw or actually taking off with the ball. That being said, I'm not a big fan of his pro potential.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Russell Wilson also had five years in college to develop his QB skills and his body. Manziel has had two thus far.

That said, would not draft.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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As of today, I don't think he is a NFL starting QB. The size and lack of arm strength are very concerning. When you watch him play, he is definitely fun to watch because he seems to make a play 95% of the time whether it's buying more time to throw or actually taking off with the ball. That being said, I'm not a big fan of his pro potential.
The Ty Detmer comparison Gary Danielson made is spot on.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Isn't Doug Flutie the obvious comparison? What makes Manziel different from him?
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen any of bad QB comparisons being made that can do what Manziel did vs the likes of Alabama, Florida, LSU, Oklahoma, etc.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Manziel over Boyd who many are confusingly hyping as a potential first rounder next year. He has more than enough arm strength to make the throws and his athletic ability is very rare for the position.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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The Ty Detmer comparison Gary Danielson made is spot on.
Man, that is freakishly spot on. It doesnt mean the same exact fate for him, but it doesnt make a case for him either

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I haven't seen any of bad QB comparisons being made that can do what Manziel did vs the likes of Alabama, Florida, LSU, Oklahoma, etc.
I think we say this a lot about recent players in forgetting the old ones because they flamed out to nothing
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
I'd take Manziel over Boyd who many are confusingly hyping as a potential first rounder next year. He has more than enough arm strength to make the throws and his athletic ability is very rare for the position.
I wouldn't. Tajh Boyd is a top 5 pick if he was an inch or two taller. He is a great pocket passer who has an excellent arm and great pocket presence. He's more like Russell Wilson than Manziel.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:42 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Yeah, someone brought up Russell Wilson in the old Manziel thread. Confused me because they're not so similar. Wilson was a better passer, is more intelligent as far as avoiding contact, and has arms that are practically the size of Manziel's legs. Seriously, they're not in the same ballpark when it comes to dat hit-absorbing lean mass.



Manziel is still a kid, Wilson is a grown man with 5 years lifting weights as a pro athlete.

They have many striking similarities.

Height.
Unique scrambling ability. (not running, scrambling)
Not a dynamite arm but can make all the throws.

Manziel was so smart and accurate by the end of the season last year it was scary.

His arm is legit. People just want to label him lazily for some reason. He can spin it as well as anyone in the nation. Deep ball touch is excellent. He's got literally everything except an ideal frame.

One difference is probably intelligence/presence on the field but Manziel is still just a kid and Wilson is an all-pro caliber NFL QB...
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:58 PM    (permalink
K Train
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Manziel is still a kid, Wilson is a grown man with 5 years lifting weights as a pro athlete.

They have many striking similarities.

Height.
Unique scrambling ability. (not running, scrambling)
Not a dynamite arm but can make all the throws.

Manziel was so smart and accurate by the end of the season last year it was scary.

His arm is legit. People just want to label him lazily for some reason. He can spin it as well as anyone in the nation. Deep ball touch is excellent. He's got literally everything except an ideal frame.

One difference is probably intelligence/presence on the field but Manziel is still just a kid and Wilson is an all-pro caliber NFL QB...
jesus.....dont jump on that bandwagon too hard, youll break it
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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