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Old 05-24-2013, 02:29 AM    (permalink
MetSox17
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I still can't believe how bad the Bulls got hosed in that Aldridge trade. To this day i can't understand what the hell they were thinking.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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Otto Porter would be the least talented #1 overall pick since......ummmmm.... since when?
I've already expressed my 'mehness' towards Otto earlier in this thread but I was watching him (and I doubt NBA teams will look at him like this) he's very intriguing as a point guard to me. He's a very savy player with very good court vision, quality handles though that would be something he'd have to improve on and although his stats don't reflect it he's a very good passer. I always like oversized point guards and he'd be able to create mismatches with his length which is something I don't think he'll be able to do at 3 because he lacks any outstanding tools to really make him a threat. Maybe he'd just be Evan Turner 2.0 (tho he does actually remind me of the SF version of Turner) but I think he has the skills that translate to that spot and the potential to create some unique problems for other teams. Just a thought.


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It's still hilarious that Bargnani went first overall.
Well in Toronto's defense, with the exception of Aldrige that was a brutal class at the top.

P2W beat me to it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:37 AM    (permalink
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I still can't believe how bad the Bulls got hosed in that Aldridge trade. To this day i can't understand what the hell they were thinking.
I remember everyone was saying that the Bulls loved Tyrus, so they were able to trade down and still get him. Obviously ended up terribly.

Portland hosed everyone in that draft. They ended up with LMA and Roy in a terribad draft.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:41 AM    (permalink
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I've already expressed my 'mehness' towards Otto earlier in this thread but I was watching him (and I doubt NBA teams will look at him like this) he's very intriguing as a point guard to me. He's a very savy player with very good court vision, quality handles though that would be something he'd have to improve on and although his stats don't reflect it he's a very good passer. I always like oversized point guards and he'd be able to create mismatches with his length which is something I don't think he'll be able to do at 3 because he lacks any outstanding tools to really make him a threat. Maybe he'd just be Evan Turner 2.0 (tho he does actually remind me of the SF version of Turner) but I think he has the skills that translate to that spot and the potential to create some unique problems for other teams. Just a thought.

Well in Toronto's defense, with the exception of Aldrige that was a brutal class at the top.

P2W beat me to it.
Would he be guarding opposing 3s on defense? Since he would switch to the 1 on offense, would a PG play the 3 spot on the floor? PGs usually aren't deep shooting threats or used to playing from the corners. While it's a very innovative idea, i think it creates just as many mismatches for your team as it does for the opposition.

------------------------

I thought Aldridge was easily the best player that year, but i've always loved his game.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:02 AM    (permalink
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Would he be guarding opposing 3s on defense? Since he would switch to the 1 on offense, would a PG play the 3 spot on the floor? PGs usually aren't deep shooting threats or used to playing from the corners. While it's a very innovative idea, i think it creates just as many mismatches for your team as it does for the opposition.
Well he was a HS PG and watching his craftiness and court vision is what got me thinking. I guess the idea is he's guarding the backcourt players, probably on a team that likes to switch defensively. He's not quite Oladipo but he's a quality on ball defender. The question would be how he'd fare against quick penetrating guards which is fair but I do think guys like him can compensate with length (7'1 wingspan). To make a football comparison for a second, Richard Sherman is a 4.5 guy but he's able to make up ground because he's so tall and so long that it gives him a larger recovery range if that makes sense. He'd still have to have sufficient quickness on the outside and I do think he could make it work and create some problems but I'm not going to 'bang the table' for him in that area.

I just kinda feel he probably holds more value in a Jalen Rose type PG/SF jack-of-all-trades who handles the ball a lot without a true defined position. I think if you have him locked in at the 3 as a perimeter perimeter player who doesn't handle the ball much and you expect him to be a legit threat as either a penetration or a knock down shooter, I think whoever drafts him is gonna be disappointed.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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PF28's Top 10 players

1. Victor Oladipo - Indiana
2. Trey Burke - Michigan
3. Anthony Bennett - UNLV
4. CJ McCollum - Lehigh
5. Ben McLemore - Kansas
6. Nerlens Noel - Kentucky
7. Otto Porter - Georgetown
8. Sergey Karasev - Russia
9. Cody Zeller - Indiana
10. Dennis Schroeder - Germany
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
Well he was a HS PG and watching his craftiness and court vision is what got me thinking. I guess the idea is he's guarding the backcourt players, probably on a team that likes to switch defensively. He's not quite Oladipo but he's a quality on ball defender. The question would be how he'd fare against quick penetrating guards which is fair but I do think guys like him can compensate with length (7'1 wingspan). To make a football comparison for a second, Richard Sherman is a 4.5 guy but he's able to make up ground because he's so tall and so long that it gives him a larger recovery range if that makes sense. He'd still have to have sufficient quickness on the outside and I do think he could make it work and create some problems but I'm not going to 'bang the table' for him in that area.

I just kinda feel he probably holds more value in a Jalen Rose type PG/SF jack-of-all-trades who handles the ball a lot without a true defined position. I think if you have him locked in at the 3 as a perimeter perimeter player who doesn't handle the ball much and you expect him to be a legit threat as either a penetration or a knock down shooter, I think whoever drafts him is gonna be disappointed.
For a while the Blazers had this sort of expectation out of Batum. Now he has been relegated to a corner shooter who will get a couple alley oops and play some minutes as a 4 in small lineups.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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PF28's Top 10 players

1. Victor Oladipo - Indiana
2. Trey Burke - Michigan
3. Anthony Bennett - UNLV
4. CJ McCollum - Lehigh
5. Ben McLemore - Kansas
6. Nerlens Noel - Kentucky
7. Otto Porter - Georgetown
8. Sergey Karasev - Russia
9. Cody Zeller - Indiana
10. Dennis Schroeder - Germany
If I was to make a board right now, my top 4 would probably be identical. I love Trey but I feel pretty confident that Oladipo will be the best player to come out of this draft.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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If I was to make a board right now, my top 4 would probably be identical. I love Trey but I feel pretty confident that Oladipo will be the best player to come out of this draft.
What player would you compare Oladipo to?
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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What player would you compare Oladipo to?
Tony Allen with, hopefully, much better offense. I don't see why anyone would have Bennett int heir top 3.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Tony Allen with, hopefully, much better offense. I don't see why anyone would have Bennett int heir top 3.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Tony Allen who can average 16-20 a game and shoot around 50% and if you weigh defense relative equally in your evaluation, that's a pretty damn good player.

As for Bennett, he's a pretty unique player. I think he has the ability to develop into a more athletic version of David West as long as he really embraces being a power forward and he or his team doesn't try to play him like an oversized small forward. Him being in "top 3" player is more of a function of this class and my general mehness towards Nerlens, Mclemore and Otto.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Tony Allen with, hopefully, much better offense. I don't see why anyone would have Bennett int heir top 3.
This is what concerns me about putting Oladipo at #1.

Tony Allen is a great player to have on your team but I would never expect any team to hope they come out of the draft with a Tony Allen in the top 10 and certainly not top 5.

The NBA draft in the lottery is when you find a guy you can dream on. A lot of time that doesn't work out (Gerald Green, Tyrus Thomas, etc) but sometimes it does.

One of the main reasons for this is that defensive stoppers switch teams all the time. You can find a Battier, Bowen or Allen in trade or FA. But it's much less likely that you will be able to find a star player outside of the draft unless you are NY, LA or Chi.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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What player would you compare Oladipo to?
I think Oladipo will be between Tony Allen and Dwyane Wade
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I think Oladipo will be between Tony Allen and Dwyane Wade
You do realize that the gap between those 2 is a colossal chasm, right? I'm sure there is a better way to describe your feelings on Oladipo.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Tony Allen with, hopefully, much better offense. I don't see why anyone would have Bennett int heir top 3.
Bennett may be undersized for the four position, but the NBA seems to be transitioning to smaller, more athletic lineups anyways. He has the athleticism to create mismatches and he has the ability to do it all offensively with being able to put the ball on the floor to create or stretch the defense with the three ball.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that the gap between those 2 is a colossal chasm, right? I'm sure there is a better way to describe your feelings on Oladipo.
At the very least he will be a shut down defender with the ability to contribute offensively. If his offensive game continues to make the significant strides that we saw this last season then he could be one of the better all around players in the league.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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One of the main reasons for this is that defensive stoppers switch teams all the time. You can find a Battier, Bowen or Allen in trade or FA. But it's much less likely that you will be able to find a star player outside of the draft unless you are NY, LA or Chi.
I understand your point but I'd argue that elite perimeter defenders are more difficult to find than 20 point scorers or even rim-protecting 7 footers. Now it comes down to the value of the role vs. the difficulty of the role that's different discussion but I can't get on board with the idea that elite perimeter defenders are guys you can just find, especially someone like Oladipo is pretty clearly a special player in that area.

MKG was considered somewhat of a blue-chipper and I'd say Oladipo's offensive game is further along than MKG's was and in addition has more upside offensively because he's a much more natural shooter.


I'm still trying to figure out an comparison I like for Victor's offensive game that I like.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen too much of Oladipo, but from what i did see, his jump shot doesn't seem natural to me. Looks too wind-up-y. He looks like a slightly more explosive Tyreke Evans, maybe?
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Maybe perhaps a slightly poor man's Iguodala?
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen too much of Oladipo, but from what i did see, his jump shot doesn't seem natural to me. Looks too wind-up-y. He looks like a slightly more explosive Tyreke Evans, maybe?
He doesn't have close to the handle of Tyreke. Or the ability to create for himself.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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I like Bennett and I wouldn't be surprised if he emerges as a ROY candidate, but I view him as a tweener forward and I don't care for that type of player. They can have a place on a team and put up some nice numbers, I don't think they're cornerstone players.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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He doesn't have close to the handle of Tyreke. Or the ability to create for himself.
Does blazing past everyone and thunder dunking in traffic not count as creating for himself?
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, Tyreke is one of the best in the NBA at getting to the basket and finishing in traffic.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I might get ripped on for this but he kind of makes me think of MKG in a shooting guard's body with a respectable jumper.

They both have excellent athleticism, approach each facet of the game with tenacity and have speed driving to the basket. His handle scares me though, he'll probably cough it up quite a bit his first season and he has difficulty getting to the rim when the straight line is cut off.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Frankly there aren't a whole lot of good 2 guards in the NBA, so the list of guys who he can be compared to without making him sound like a crappy player is really short (and he doesn't compare all that well to a lot of the guys on it). I think that's part of his appeal, he's got a lot of potential at a position where there's a dearth of good players in the league right now.

Love the work ethic and the tenacity. Obviously the athleticism jumps out and the defensive ability. When you have those tools and then can not be a liability on offense it leads to a lot of upside. The MKG as a 2 guard comp is one I can see. I could see Oladipo playing a similar role to a 2 guard version of Luol Deng as well with elite perimeter defense (albeit, the ability to guard different positions than Deng), slashing ability, and probably similar three point shooting ability to what Deng provides now instead of the long 2 shooter he was earlier in his career. Could see him playing off a dominant PG very well. It'll never happen, but I'd love to see him in Chicago.

The one concern that I think is there is that, as pointed out, you're drafting for elite players at the top of the lottery and I think Oladipo's more of an elite #2 because of what he lacks in ball handling ability. To me, ball handling isn't a skill guys tend to develop that well by the time they're in the NBA, it obviously can be tightened up but for the most part once they get to that level they have it or they don't. On the other hand, there's just not much talent at the top of this draft (you know it's bad when the consensus #1 pick is a center with little offensive game to speak of who's 20 pounds away from being 20 pounds away from having an NBA body AND is coming off a torn ACL, and a 3/4 tweener is likely going top 5) and I think Oladipo's such a sure thing and maybe puts in the time to get to that #1 level anyway. Not somebody I'd want to bet against.
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