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Old 06-03-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
I watched Miami as much or more than I watched any team in CBB this year and really like Larkin but as a prospect he's still probably a little lesser version of Ty Lawson who was the 18th pick when he came out.
They have different styles but Lawson's success as the 18th pick bodes well for Larkin in a weaker class...
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I've heard the Lawson comparison for Larkin before, but I'm not sure I buy it.

Yeah, they are both short, but Lawson is much bigger (Larkin's 171 to Lawson's 197 coming out). I also think Lawson plays quicker than Larkin and is a much better finisher at the rim. Larkin, however, is a much more consistent shooter with better range.

I just think they are different players. Lawson's game is largely based around getting into the lane. Larkin is more of a perimeter player.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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lawson is so much stronger and explosive than Larkin. I don't see it. At all, really
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Larkin is pretty damn explosive. 44 inch vert at the combine. He probably doesn't have the straight line speed with the ball that Lawson has though.

Larkin and Burke actually seem to both have similar styles to me. Both have range, are very good ballhandlers, and are good in the pick and roll.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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In terms of athleticism, Larkin is actually more explosive.

They don't play similarly at all.

The comparison starts and ends with size as the one overriding negative in terms of their pro prospects.

I just looked at the draft order and I don't see him falling past Dallas-Utah-MIL. I could also see a team like DET or even NO preferring him to Burke/McCollum.

His only negative is size. He's got a sweet stroke and he's an assassin defensively. He was the unquestioned court general as a SO. for Miami.

He's an elite athlete, he showed that at the combine. Teams are going to point to the successful small guards in today's NBA and you are going to hear whispers of him ascending... It's pretty obvious.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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And here I thought we could nab him at 19 to be Irving's backup since Livingston thinks he can get a decent contract somewhere.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Maybe I'm off base but I was extremely impressed with Larkin and I think into today's era of specialization in sports, teams are realizing that height is not important for positions in which height isn't that important...

And if Michael Carter Williams goes before Larkin... that's ridiculous.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, have you seen Ty Lawson throw down? He drops the hammer.

And MCW is absolutely better than Larkin. Idk where this Larkin hype is coming from
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Larkin posted the second best combine vert of all time...
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Larkin posted the second best combine vert of all time...
ZOMG COMBINE NUMBERS

Larkin's a freak athlete, but I just don't see the Lawson comparison or really think he's going to be all that good in the pros.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Larkin posted the second best combine vert of all time...
And who is first? Kenny Gregory.

That's not a knock on Larkin, but the combine athletic testing hasn't proven to mean a whole lot.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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MCW can't shoot a lick. 40% fg, 30% 3, 69% freaking FT. He averaged over 1 TO a game more than Larkin.

He's a good passer. Hardly worth taking someone better at everything else, who is also a good passer, for some size.

If MCW becomes a decent NBA PG then I'll be shocked because that'll mean he DRASTICALLY improves his shooting stroke. Like DRASTICALLY.

No point in taking him. He's sketchier than Kendall Marshall.

In a very friendly situation at Cuse. No way would I take him over Larkin.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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It's not just the combine numbers, it's that he also plays athletic and he showed pure PG skills along with an excellent outside shot. He was the best player in the ACC this year. I definitely see where gpngc is coming from.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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If you followed the conversation, I was responding to "have you seen Lawson throw the hammer down" and "Lawson is more explosive."

His combine performance does nothing more than reinforce his athletic ability. And that although he's small, he's an NBA-level athlete...

His athleticism is only a small part of the package, I've explained that he's got literally everything in a PG you'd want minus ideal height...
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm just saying I've never seen Larkin's leaping ability translate over to games like i have with Ty. I just don't think larkin's that good. I just don't see it. Great college player, i just don't see it translating to the pros. And it's not about his height, so don't be so quick to pull that "HE'S JUST SHORT, THAT'S IT" card.

He's also small. Needs to bulk up. A lot. So there's that. But I just don't see it with Larkin.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm just saying I've never seen Larkin's leaping ability translate over to games like i have with Ty. I just don't think larkin's that good. I just don't see it. Great college player, i just don't see it translating to the pros. And it's not about his height, so don't be so quick to pull that "HE'S JUST SHORT, THAT'S IT" card.

He's also small. Needs to bulk up. A lot. So there's that. But I just don't see it with Larkin.
Then what's it about?

He's small. That's his only negative. Everything else is either a strength or something he's got the upside to turn into a strength (jumper).

Full disclosure I watched almost every U game this year. He was clutch, a floor general - just an overall baller. Way better than Marshall last year who went in the range he's currently projected in...

Miami had a good team, but he made it a great team.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Then what's it about?

He's small. That's his only negative. Everything else is either a strength or something he's got the upside to turn into a strength (jumper).

Full disclosure I watched almost every U game this year. He was clutch, a floor general - just an overall baller. Way better than Marshall last year who went in the range he's currently projected in...

Miami had a good team, but he made it a great team.
Right. His ONLY negative is the fact that he's small. If that were the case, he'd be generating more talk about being the top pick. A guy who has zero basketball flaws?!?! OMG! but wait guys...he's small. **** that.

I just don't like his game. Don't like his shot selection. His jumper is meh. BUT HE CAN TURN THAT INTO A STRENGTH BECAUSE UPSIDE.
Why can't MCW do that? larkin will be an ok guard off the bench. Hell, Indiana would kill for him right now. But you're making him sound like the second coming, it's pretty ridiculous.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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His jumper is already a strength. 41% from 3 is very good when you take 5 a game, and he regularly hit them off the dribble, off screens, and spotting up. He hit plenty of them from well behind the line too, so the longer three point line will likely not be an issue.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Because MCW's shot is horrible and Larkin's is good?

If by shot selection, you mean he doesn't shoot enough, I guess that's a good criticism. He should've been more aggressive in that regard...

My whole premise is that the draft experts are off when they put him in the 20s. So you saying he's not generating more talk is the reason why I brought him up in the first place.

It's my analysis of the situation. Just because the pundits don't have him going high in May doesn't mean I'm wrong about where he'll go.

I'm making him sound like a guy who should go in the lottery who isn't being talked about the lottery...
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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I like Larkin's skillset, but his size does seriously concern me.

He's short, isn't long, and has a small frame.

I'm not saying he won't be good, but there simply aren't a lot of guys like that, that have succeeded in the NBA.

That said, I like his shot/range, I like his speed, I like him in the PnR, and I like his demeanor/attitude/leadership.

As a late first rounder, I'd love him as the pick, but I would have some concerns if he was a lottery pick because of the size thing.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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He's small. That's his only negative. Everything else is either a strength or something he's got the upside to turn into a strength (jumper).
Being small is a kind of a huge negative. Having one of the shortest wingspans ever recorded and being 170 lbs. surely aren't positives either. Maybe he'll be able to jump over players?

You're acting like he led them to the national championship. They exceeded expectations in a mediocre conference.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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I guess that's fair but it's still a generalization. I prefer to judge each player based on his own merit rather than what players with similar prospects did. Each individual is his own story. I think details and hard scouting uncover more truths than comparisons.

And I'll always disagree with the "I like him at 30, but not at 15."

The size does concern me. And it's not just the size in itself. It's the fact that you have to work so much harder in every facet of being a pro in order to compensate.

But that's the only concern with him. I don't see Burke as much better if at all... /shitstorm coming
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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Originally Posted by Docta View Post
Being small is a kind of a huge negative. Having one of the shortest wingspans ever recorded and being 170 lbs. surely aren't positives either. Maybe he'll be able to jump over players?

You're acting like he led them to the national championship. They exceeded expectations in a mediocre conference.
Everyone has me "acting" a certain way. I'm commenting on what I saw, having watched about 80% of his games. He was pretty freaking impressive last year regardless of how far they got in the tourney. They were one of the best teams in the nation and he was the best player on one of the best teams.

The size does concern me, as I've explained. But I value basketball skills over the size - that's just my philosophy.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Isaiah Canaan will be better than Shane Larkin. Guaranteed 100%!
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:04 PM    (permalink
pierce2walker
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
And I'll always disagree with the "I like him at 30, but not at 15."
See, I'd agree with you if we were talking about the NFL Draft, but the NBA Draft is a completely different animal. The average impact of players drops off very quickly.

Look at the history of players picked 10-15. Then look at the history of players picked 25-30. Obviously there are busts in the 10-15 range and hits in the 25-30 range, but in general the difference is drastic.
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