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Old 06-05-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
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Alex Smith has more TDs per snap than Eli Manning. He also has more yards & TDs per snap than RGIII and Russell Wilson. So obviously it is a fact that Alex Smith is better than all three of those guys.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Cedric Peerman had a higher yards per carry than Adrian Petersen this year 7.1>6.0. Its obvious that if given more carries Peerman will blow past ADs stupid 2000 yard season. Efficiency > actual production. I'd much rather have unproven back up than the great solid player everytime. The coaching staff was just out to get Peerman this year but when he gets the carries you'll all see how right I am. Obviously efficiency stays constant as a player gets more snaps.
No. This doesn't make sense because it doesn't fit his argument. We obviously can't use his own rationale for any other scenario because it wouldn't make sense but he'll stick to the 1 scenario that he thought of and die by it because technically we can't prove if Graham wasn't a full time starter he could have gotten 26 sacks lollzz.


I hope this thread doesn't go 6-7 pages, if it does it better be random pokemon pictures and nobody taking the time to explain simple points to AcheTen.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith has more TDs per snap than Eli Manning. He also has more yards & TDs per snap than RGIII and Russell Wilson. So obviously it is a fact that Alex Smith is better than all three of those guys.
Well, he is better than he usually gets credit for.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Well, he is better than he usually gets credit for.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I hope this thread doesn't go 6-7 pages, if it does it better be random pokemon pictures and nobody taking the time to explain simple points to AcheTen.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith has more TDs per snap than Eli Manning. He also has more yards & TDs per snap than RGIII and Russell Wilson. So obviously it is a fact that Alex Smith is better than all three of those guys.

Guess what, Alex Smith was a more efficient player than Eli Manning last year.

You can't argue that Alex Smith has been a better player over the course of their respective careers than Eli Manning, but last year, he was a better, more efficient QB.

Did you forget how awesome Smith was playing last year before Harbaugh pulled him for Kaepernick? Again, that doesn't mean that Smith has had the better career, but he was better last year, and you know what, he could have the better career for the next 3+ years. Eli Manning, despite winning 2 Super Bowls, is not really a particularly efficient or great QB, especially in the regular season.

Your first three examples didn't work and I shot them down with ease. How many more are you going to go fishing for?
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Your first three examples didn't work and I shot them down with ease. How many more are you going to go fishing for?
You didn't shoot down my Jon Baldwin example. He was more efficient per snap than Calvin Johnson. Or how about the 33 WRs who were more efficient per reception than Johnson? You want to address all of those?
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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You didn't shoot down my Jon Baldwin example. He was more efficient per snap than Calvin Johnson. Or how about the 33 WRs who were more efficient per reception than Johnson? You want to address all of those?
No, your argument was that he was more efficient on a YARDS PER RECEPTION basis.

He had 20 receptions last year. That is clearly too small a sample size.

Here's your post:

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Jon Baldwin averages 16.3 yards per reception in 2013. Calvin Johnson only averages 16.1. Baldwin had 1 TD per 20 receptions. Johnson only had a TD every 24.4 receptions. Baldwin is a more efficient receiver, is he better?
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Guess what, Alex Smith was a more efficient player than Eli Manning last year.
Also, efficiency doesn't mean better. My Chevy Cobalt is very fuel efficient. It gets like 37 MPG on the highway. It also cost under 15K but will still last me well over 100K miles. Because it gets more miles per gallon and miles per dollar, does it make it a better car than a Mercedes, BMW, or even a Chevy Malibu, Impala, or truck?
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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No, your argument was that he was more efficient on a YARDS PER RECEPTION basis.

He had 20 receptions last year. That is clearly too small a sample size.

Here's your post:
Who decides what is too small? But even if that is too small, 33 players who had 58 receptions or more were more efficient than Calvin Johnson. Is Johnson the 34th best receiver in the league?
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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I hope this thread doesn't go 6-7 pages,
It's going to. AcheTen is one of the GOAT's. People can't stop responding.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Who decides what is too small? But even if that is too small, 33 players who had 58 receptions or more were more efficient than Calvin Johnson. Is Johnson the 34th best receiver in the league?
Again, if you ask any statistics professor, he will tell you that the threshold begins in the hundreds for sample sizes.

It is simply too unreliable to depend on such a small sample size.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Also, efficiency doesn't mean better. My Chevy Cobalt is very fuel efficient. It gets like 37 MPG on the highway. It also cost under 15K but will still last me well over 100K miles. Because it gets more miles per gallon and miles per dollar, does it make it a better car than a Mercedes, BMW, or even a Chevy Malibu, Impala, or truck?
If we are talking about Quarterbacks, efficiency is far more important than it is for automobiles.

Efficiency for QBs means less turnovers, more touchdowns and yards per play... Efficiency for cars just means less fuel consumption.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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If we are talking about Quarterbacks, efficiency is far more important than it is for automobiles.

Efficiency for QBs means less turnovers, more touchdowns and yards per play... Efficiency for cars just means less fuel consumption.
Less fuel consumption and paying less per mile could allow me to afford better health insurance, organic food, buy a gym membership, and ultimately live longer.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Less fuel consumption and paying less per mile could allow me to afford better health insurance, organic food, buy a gym membership, and ultimately live longer.
And that's great.

I love fuel efficient cars.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Why this needed it's own thread is beyond me
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Change your premise to "Graham is more efficient in pass rushing than JPP" and you are indeed correct.

Factor in that JPP plays snaps at DT, doesn't line up "wide-9", and plays every down as opposed to obvious passing downs and the achievement is lessened greatly. If Graham can continue his efficiency across a full-snap count he will be one of the better pass rushers in the league. That being said it's a lot harder to be an efficient pass-rusher when you play all three downs.


That is far too serious though so on with the pokemon.

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Old 06-05-2013, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Change your premise to "Graham is more efficient in pass rushing than JPP" and you are indeed correct.

Factor in that JPP plays snaps at DT, doesn't line up "wide-9", and plays every down as opposed to obvious passing downs and the achievement is lessened greatly. If Graham can continue his efficiency across a full-snap count he will be one of the better pass rushers in the league. That being said it's a lot harder to be an efficient pass-rusher when you play all three downs.


That is far too serious though so on with the pokemon.

Amazing, someone who actually uses logic and concedes a modicum of correctness on my part.

That having been said, Graham did not play exclusively passing downs. The Wide-9 rotation in Philly was used such that the DL rotations were sent in "waves": i.e. Graham was on the second string line, and would play 10 or so snaps after the first string was rotated out, then the first line would be rotated back in and play 10 or so, and then they repeat the process. So he saw his fair share of 1st and 2nd downs.

He also played the majority of the snaps in the last 4-5 games when Jim Washburn (the DL coach) was fired and Jason Babin was released.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Greg Hardy was taken in the 6th round of the 2010 draft. Just sayin'.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Again, if you ask any statistics professor, he will tell you that the threshold begins in the hundreds for sample sizes.

It is simply too unreliable to depend on such a small sample size.
This isn't actually true. There are many times when hundreds of units is not feasible. Reliability of mikitary systems. But more importantly, I m not taking a sample. A sample would ne taking 30 receptions out of 120 and drawing conclusions. I'm taking 100% of the data points and doing mathematical calculations.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Even PFF doesn't agree with you. They listed JPP as #46 in the top 101 of 2012 season, Derrick Morgan as #65, and Brandon Graham as #76.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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This thread is literally on crazy pills.

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Old 06-05-2013, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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This thread is literally on crazy pills.

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Old 06-05-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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From Cudders in the other thread:

You made me curious.

So, I decided to pull up a spreadsheet and chart some protections from the 2012 Week 4 tape of the Giants v. Eagles. Picked that game for a few reasons. Could watch both without jumping around, meaningful division game, close score window, coaching staffs that are quite familiar with opponent personnel and their threats posed, no documented injuries, marginal difference on the stat sheet, etc. Did the first half. The results speak for themselves:

General
Team Defensive Snaps: 32 (JPP), 40 (Graham).
Individual Defensive Snaps: 31 (JPP), 8 (Graham).
Defensive Snaps Percentage: 96.9% (JPP), 20.0% (Graham).
2nd & 11+ Snaps Percentage: 100.0% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).
3rd & 7+ Snaps Percentage: 100.0% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).

Primary Blocker
OT Percentage: 80.0% (JPP), 75.0% (Graham).
C Percentage: 3.3% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).
TE Percentage: 13.3% (JPP), 12.5% (Graham).
RB Percentage: 0.0% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).
Unblocked Percentage: 3.3% (JPP), 12.5% (Graham).

Secondary Blocker
OT Percentage: 6.7% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).
OG Percentage: 6.7% (JPP), 12.5% (Graham).
TE Percentage: 23.3% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).
HB Percentage: 6.7% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).
WR Percentage: 3.3% (JPP), 0.0% (Graham).

Personnel Alignment
Same-Side TE Percentage: 66.7% (JPP), 37.5% (Graham).
Same-Side RB Percentage: 21.1% (JPP), 50.0% (Graham).

In addition, a higher percentage of JPP’s help blocks engaged him rather than chipped or re-routed, resulting in a greater number of true “doubles” on a whole and per snap basis. And all of these numbers are just straight data. None of them even consider the fact that Brandon Graham tended to rush from easier, wider alignments with fewer run responsibilities.

In short, JPP being schemed against more than Brandon Graham can’t be dismissed as an excuse or groupthink. It’s a fact.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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1. Baldwin might actually be an elite WR in the future. Did you even consider that? Putting up great numbers in limited snaps can often be a harbinger of what's to come. I wouldn't be shocked if Baldwin even outplays Johnson in the future. Put yuor bias aside and open your mind.

2. Also, Y/R stats for WRs are far more uniform and standardized than sacks/snap for DEs. The nature of the WR position lends itself to uniformity among Y/R stats.

3. 20 receptions is again a very small sample size. Much smaller than 400+ snaps.
this right here blew it for me. Thought maybe he was just a delusional fan who only looks at numbers, but this gave away his troll status
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