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Old 07-13-2013, 06:12 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
I'm really not an Eli Manning fan, but I don't understand how anyone could put Flacco over him.
But flacco just won!!! Eli not being in the top 5 is a joke, period. Put Big Ben and Flacco at 6 and 7, but they do not deserve to be ranked ahead of Eli. But Eli's been consistently under-rated in his career because he's not Big Brother.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Ben over Eli, but Flacco over neither.

Completion percentage, yards per attempt, td/int ratio and QB rating all lean towards him.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
I'd take Ben over Eli, but Flacco over neither.

Completion percentage, yards per attempt, td/int ratio and QB rating all lean towards him.
Honestly, Im not using statistics as a main point. I want QBs who are going to lead teams to victories and make the plays needed to be made. All 3 of these guys do that without putting up gaudy fantasy football stats.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. The only reason I would really consider Eli over Ben is Ben is usually good to miss a game or more a season. Could be the offensive line, but also has to do with his style of play as well.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben > Eli >>> Flacco

Both Ben and Eli are borderline elite QBs. Both are clutch late game players and have superbowl wins to their names. They are the driving force on their offenses and while the players around them change they stay steady.

Flacco balled the **** out last post season but he has no history like the other two. He has actually been a fairly good QB at the end of games and for the 2 postseasons prior. He was let down by his teammates in the Pitt and NE games. Actually having deep speed receivers for the first time has really done wonders. Flacco can actually use the cannon. I hope he carries this over now that Cameron is gone. He can get on their level hopefully.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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Agreed. The only reason I would really consider Eli over Ben is Ben is usually good to miss a game or more a season. Could be the offensive line, but also has to do with his style of play as well.
It's tough to compare Ben to Eli because they are successful in completely different ways, Eli is great at reading a defense and running his super complex, down the field offense. Ben runs an almost college like offense predicated on his ability to not get sacked for 5-7 seconds while he runs around and waits for his receivers to get down field for him to turn a broken play into a big play. Both are clutcher than the QBs ahead of them, both attack teams deep more than the QBs in front of them and both have two rings, but the way they get there is just so completely different in just about every way.

That's why I pick Eli, his success isn't built around his physical freakness the way Ben's is, that's also why he's been so much more durable throughout their careers.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
Bradford is due for a breakout year...4100 yards/28 TD/10 int
I expect people to keep on saying that for the 15th consecutive year in, like, 2025 when he keeps on still having a job for weird reasons.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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^Financial reasons.

As fruitful as the returns were, the Rams may regret trading RGIII down the road.

It's now or never for Bradford.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Every time we have a QB ranking thread, I come away from it hating all of you.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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^Financial reasons.

As fruitful as the returns were, the Rams may regret trading RGIII down the road.

It's now or never for Bradford.
I think this is a trade where both sides are very pleased with what they have gotten. The Redskins got their franchise QB, while the Rams have gotten Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, Rokevious Watkins, Alec Ogletree, and Stedman Bailey. They also still have Washington's #1 next year. So if Bradford fails the Rams should still be in position to take a top QB in next year's draft if there is one they like.

I think Bradford build on last year and be even better this year.

The big key with trades like this is the team that gets the bundle of picks must draft productive players with them and build a strong core from it. Thus far it looks like the Rams have done a very good job of that.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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Andrew Luck is ranked 10th and Matt Schaub is 9th. I'm a Schaub fan, but I think Jaworski has him a little high here.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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I think this is a trade where both sides are very pleased with what they have gotten. The Redskins got their franchise QB, while the Rams have gotten Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, Rokevious Watkins, Alec Ogletree, and Stedman Bailey. They also still have Washington's #1 next year. So if Bradford fails the Rams should still be in position to take a top QB in next year's draft if there is one they like.

I think Bradford build on last year and be even better this year.

The big key with trades like this is the team that gets the bundle of picks must draft productive players with them and build a strong core from it. Thus far it looks like the Rams have done a very good job of that.
I like how you mentioned both sides being happy then went on to name players who will probably mean nothing in a few years. The Rams should have kept RGIII and traded Bradford for whatever they could, all those picks/players are going to end up irrelevant when Bradford is still average and RGIII is 1 of the best QB's in the NFL.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I tried making a list but it's a lot harder than I thought. Once we get past the top 6 it's very debatable.

My top 6 are:

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Roethlisberger

But after those six, I want to say Flacco at 7 but it's too soon and I feel like I'd be guilty of giving him too much of a leap bc of his ring. But at the same time, he rightfully has earned that leap bc of his playoff performances the past 2 years, plus the obvious growth he displayed as a qb the second Cam Cameron was fired, along with his resume of playoff success.

So I'll give Flacco 7 but I don't feel great about it.

Then after him, who's the best non SB winning qb in the league? For awhile it was Phillip Rivers but you can't say that anymore. Matt Ryan? Regular season yes but he's still so shakey in the playoffs. Then how do we evaluate the young guns? Luck, RGIII, and Wilson can easily be 9, 10, and 11 with how damn could they looked this year but is it too soon to say? And if it is then where do you rank them?

Then what to make of Cam Newton? Where does he fall? Romo and Cutler?

It gets really cloudy once we get past 7 on the list. There's a jumble of players who are so closely ranked together that it's hard to put numbers on them.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Matt Schaub ahead of Luck, Kaepernick, Wilson and RG3 is pretty damn funny. I like Schaub more than most people on here but come on.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Flacco does deserve a bump because of his ring. He was brilliant in the postseason. That's gotta count for something lol.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Hell, I'll give it a try:

32. Mark Sanchez, Jets
31. Matt Flynn, Raiders
30. Chad Henne, Jaguars
29. Kevin Kolb, Bills
28. Jake Locker, Titans
27. Brandon Weeden, Browns
26. Christian Ponder, Vikings
25. Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins
24. Carson Palmer, Cardinals
23. Alex Smith, Chiefs
22. Mike Vick, Eagles
21. Andy Dalton, Bengals
20. Sam Bradford, Rams
19. Jay Cutler, Broncos
18. Matt Schaub, Texas
17. Philip Rivers, Chargers
16. Matt Stafford, Lions
15. Josh Freeman, Bucs
14. Colin Kaepernick, 49ers
13. Robert Griffin III, Redskins
12. Russell Wilson, Seahawks
11. Andrew Luck, Colts
10. Cam Newton, Panthers
9. Tony Romo, Cowboys
8. Matt Ryan, Falcons
7. Joe Flacco, Ravens
6. Eli Manning, Giants
5. Drew Brees, Saints
4. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
3. Peyton Manning, Broncos
2. Tom Brady, Patriots
1. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Eli 8th on the list.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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I like how you mentioned both sides being happy then went on to name players who will probably mean nothing in a few years. The Rams should have kept RGIII and traded Bradford for whatever they could, all those picks/players are going to end up irrelevant when Bradford is still average and RGIII is 1 of the best QB's in the NFL.
I think Bradford will become a Top 10 QB in the next couple of seasons. I also see JJ and Ogletree being Pro Bowlers. Pead will be much more productive this year, the jury is still out on Watkins. Bailey has the makings of a great 3rd receiver. And we have another 1st rounder coming.

RGIII is a great talent, but has huge injury concerns, and him being a perennial star is far from a slam dunk.

Why do I get the feeling that you don't like Bradford because he is from Oklahoma?
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Bradford isn't bad but Griffins first year far surpassed any of Bradfords past 3. Bradford has the potential to be a top 10 QB, but Griffin is already a top 10 QB. The difference in their level of play at QB far outweighs the other players.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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If RGIII has the type of career he's on pace to (plays an average of 13 games a year for the next 4-5 years), I highly doubt we're saying "good trade for both teams" 4-5 years from now.

Unless. Unless Bradford really makes a leap this year. But this is it for him. It's either now or regret until RGIII retires... that's how I see it.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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If I had been the Rams, I would have drafted RG3 and then traded Bradford for whatever.

Bradford is still young, and I think the Redskins would have again been a target for Bradford if they had not gotten RG3. I think it would have probably been a 2012 first rounder and 2013 first rounder.

Not near the fire power they yielded for RG3, but I think they'd be a better team
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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If I had been the Rams, I would have drafted RG3 and then traded Bradford for whatever.

Bradford is still young, and I think the Redskins would have again been a target for Bradford if they had not gotten RG3. I think it would have probably been a 2012 first rounder and 2013 first rounder.

Not near the fire power they yielded for RG3, but I think they'd be a better team
for bradford? please tell me you arent referring to bradford
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Trading him would have messed up their whole salary cap.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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If I had been the Rams, I would have drafted RG3 and then traded Bradford for whatever.

Bradford is still young, and I think the Redskins would have again been a target for Bradford if they had not gotten RG3. I think it would have probably been a 2012 first rounder and 2013 first rounder.

Not near the fire power they yielded for RG3, but I think they'd be a better team
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for bradford? please tell me you arent referring to bradford
I would say there is no way Bradford could bring two first round picks. Then again, Alex Smith got two seconds.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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for bradford? please tell me you arent referring to bradford
I wouldn't have given it, but I believe teams would have. Remember this before his 3rd season, at which he would have only been 24 years old.

If the 49ers can get 2-2s for Alex Smith, if the Bengals can get 2-1s for Carson Palmer, if the Eagles can get a 2nd and a 3rd(or 4th whichever it was) for Donovan McNabb, I don't see a problem with the Rams having gotten that for Sam Bradford
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