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Old 04-16-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Yeah, we are in the honey hole for a trade down. Joeckel and Fisher will be gone by pick #5, the Cardinals at #7 need a left tackle, and we have pick #6. San Diego and Miami want a LT bad and Miami in particular has two 2nd rounders. Buffalo could use a LT too, and Arizona might move up a spot to secure their guy like we did last year with TRich. Win-win for the Browns. Lane Johnson is gonna make the Browns a pick or two richer I think come draft day.
I have to disagree, since Backus retired in Detroit, the Lions are now looking for a LT, there is a fair chance all three LT's go in the top 5 leaving Cleveland out of the loop. We need to pray, at least 1 LT is still availabler after the 5th pick, but I'm not holding my breath. Jacksonville, Oakland and Philly could all step in and find the gravy for themselves.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Well yeah, if the left tackles all go top 5 obviously we lose our advantage....but I suspect that Kansas City takes one and that one of Philadelphia and Detroit takes one. I'm not convinced Detroit takes Lane Johnson over Milliner and Ansah if Fisher/Joeckel are gone, though it is a possibility. In any case, even if 3 LTs all go top 5, that pushes probably either Star Lotuleilei or Dion Jordan or somebody to us at 6, which isn't bad.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Well yeah, if the left tackles all go top 5 obviously we lose our advantage....but I suspect that Kansas City takes one and that one of Philadelphia and Detroit takes one. I'm not convinced Detroit takes Lane Johnson over Milliner and Ansah if Fisher/Joeckel are gone, though it is a possibility. In any case, even if 3 LTs all go top 5, that pushes probably either Star Lotuleilei or Dion Jordan or somebody to us at 6, which isn't bad.
I think there are 9 elite prospects in this year's draft, unfortunately 2 of the top 5 are OG's, Warmack and Cooper, that leaves 7 decent prospects left, so in any case, we are going to get an elite talent.

We could still possibly trade down for extra picks but finding a trading partner won't be easy if the 3 LT's go in the top 5.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I would hesitate to call most of the guys in this draft elite. Cooper and Warmack certainly are elite guard prospects, but elite guard prospects go in the teens in any draft, maybe later (DeCastro went in the 20s). This is not a top heavy draft at all, but the number of guys viewed as non-project, franchise left tackles in this draft are 3, and they will go much higher than usual because the demand is so high in the top 12 picks. Sharrif Floyd, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, and Ezekiel Ansah are surefire top 10 picks this year, but their production compared to guys at their positions who went that high the past few years is ridiculously lower. Guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kenny Vaccaro and Jarvis Jones and Tavon Austin and DJ Fluker and Sheldon Richardson aren't considered elite but their value is barely lower if not roughly the same than that of these surefire top 10 picks. Whoever we would get at 12 would be about the same value as whoever we would get at 6. I mean, Mingo and Jordan are almost the same player physically, but one will go #2 most likely and the other will go in the 6-10 range. So yeah, let's hope there is a tackle on the board still when our pick comes up so we can get a better value and move down.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I would hesitate to call most of the guys in this draft elite. Cooper and Warmack certainly are elite guard prospects, but elite guard prospects go in the teens in any draft, maybe later (DeCastro went in the 20s). This is not a top heavy draft at all, but the number of guys viewed as non-project, franchise left tackles in this draft are 3, and they will go much higher than usual because the demand is so high in the top 12 picks. Sharrif Floyd, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, and Ezekiel Ansah are surefire top 10 picks this year, but their production compared to guys at their positions who went that high the past few years is ridiculously lower. Guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kenny Vaccaro and Jarvis Jones and Tavon Austin and DJ Fluker and Sheldon Richardson aren't considered elite but their value is barely lower if not roughly the same than that of these surefire top 10 picks. Whoever we would get at 12 would be about the same value as whoever we would get at 6. I mean, Mingo and Jordan are almost the same player physically, but one will go #2 most likely and the other will go in the 6-10 range. So yeah, let's hope there is a tackle on the board still when our pick comes up so we can get a better value and move down.
Well, here my potential 1st round board 44 deep with 9 elite prospects:

Elite: Will start right away and should become Pro Bowlers eventually.

1) Luke Joeckel LT
2) Eric Fisher LT
3) Chance Warmack OG
4) Jonathan Cooper OG
5) Dee Milliner CB
6) Sharrif Floyd DT
7) Dion Jordan DE/OLB
8) Star Lotulelei DT
9) Lane Johnson LT

Blue Chip: Most will start right away but some won't be starters till midway through the season. A few will make it to the Pro Bowl.

10) Tavon Austin WR
11) Kenny Vaccaro S
12) Barkevious Mingo OLB
13) Xavier Rhodes CB
14) Ziggy Ansah DE
15) Sheldon Richardson DT
16) Keenan Allen WR
17) Alec Ogletree LB
18) Jarvis Jones OLB
19) Sylvester Williams DT
20) Tyler Eifert TE
21) Geno Smith QB
22) Cordarrelle Patterson WR
23) Bjoern Werner DE
24) D.J. Fluker RT

Red Chip: All potential first rounders. Depending on who drafts them, some could start right away, but most will start by mid season or at least in their second season.

25) Manti Te'o ILB
26) Eric Reid S
27) Damontre Moore DE/OLB
28) Matt Elam S
29) David Amerson CB
30) Desmond Trufant CB
31) Robert Woods WR
32) Margus Hunt DE
33) DeAndre Hopkins WR
34) Justin Hunter WR
35) Eddie Lacy RB
36) Matt Barkley QB
37) E.J. Manuel QB
38) Le'Veon Bell RB
39) Menelik Watson OT
40) Giovani Bernard RB
41) Datone Jones DE
42) Arthur Brown LB
43) Zach Ertz TE
44) Jonathan Hankins DT

I think after all is said and done, that there is clearly 9 prospects who I would rate elite in any draft, it just lacks skill prospects. I also don't think DeCastro was in the class of these 2 OG's, he was a 11-15 talent but nowhere near top 5 in his overall talent.

I don't think either Mingo or Ansah is likely to be drafted top 10 although Mingo has a slight chance.

The OL clearly dominates this draft which just isn't sexy for the Media, which is why everybody is saying this draft isn't top heavy especially since they are mostly OLmen.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I would certainly put Ansah up there in the top tier, he is a possible top 5 pick...and Mingo is a top 10 lock as well. Idk, maybe your use of the word elite is more lax than mine. Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Marcel Dareus, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Patrick Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Von Miller...those were "elite prospects" coming out.

Most of the top guys in this year's draft are in the Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith, BJ Raji mold of prospects who will go top ten but aren't elite and are upside projections.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I would certainly put Ansah up there in the top tier, he is a possible top 5 pick...and Mingo is a top 10 lock as well. Idk, maybe your use of the word elite is more lax than mine. Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Marcel Dareus, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Patrick Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Von Miller...those were "elite prospects" coming out.

Most of the top guys in this year's draft are in the Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith, BJ Raji mold of prospects who will go top ten but aren't elite and are upside projections.
I don't think Aldon or Tyron were considered elite prospects when they were drafted although San Fran and Dallas probably did, but they are well on their way to getting there. To be completely honest, I think there are only 5 truly elite prospects in this year's draft, Joeckel, Fisher, Warmack, Cooper and Milliner and I feel confident they will all be All Pro Players at some point in their careers, the other 4 are in the Aldon and Tyron category, with a fairly decent chance to get there.

It is just my opinion, but I really doubt Ansah will go top 10, never mind top 5. I'll be shocked if he does considering he was totally dominated at the Senior Bowl practices. Yes, he was sensational in the game but the rules of a college All Star game strictly limit the offensive style you are permitted to use, which really suits athletic ability over technique, but he'll never see that style employed in the pros, there he will need refined technique to be effective and that is going to take years to develop.

I'd say Mingo has a chance for the top 10 but isn't yet the prospect that my top 9 are. His game needs a lot of work and he could even slip a bit on draft day. I did after all, put him at 12 on my board, so you know I like him quite a bit, but there are simply more question marks about his overall game than my top 9 posses.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Chances you guys take Geno at 6?
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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snowball's chance in hell

they're going to go defense; OR, they'll go full ****** and take Manuel instead
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Slim. Unless they're buying the McNabb comparison. I think he's better than Weeden so I wouldn't be completely upset if it happened.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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how is Greg Little developing for you guys?
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Little has been somewhat of a train wreck as a starting WR up until the last 7 to 8 games of last season. He wasn't targeted as much but he was finally consistently catching the ball and contributing to the offense. Unless he can start using his talent to consistently grab balls in traffic I think he goes the way of Arrelious Benn. I think they could help his confidence by getting him the ball more in creative ways, like carries out the backfield and reverses/screens.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I don't think there is a team in this draft that anybody can be more than 80% sure of who they will take. I'm expecting some real shockers on draft day and Cleveland is no exception.

The only thing I'm certain of is that the 3 LT's are the best prospects in this year's draft and could all be gone 1-3 although trades may make it possible.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Absolutely. Especially this year because there is no elite talent so the guy who goes 20th is probably not much worse than the guy going top 5, if at all. I wouldn't say the LTs are the best prospects, but they are the safest and they will be in the highest demand, which is why they will be gone in the top 6 picks, probably top 4 or 5 even.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Good team assessment heading into training camp...
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...143042061.html

But I'd go..

Best offseason acquisition:
Desmond Bryant

Biggest hole on the roster:
The receiving/TE corps.

Position in flux:
Quarterback.

Player you might not have heard of yet, but will soon:
I'd go Craig Robertson.

The player who could swing this teamís season one way or another:
I'm going with Josh Gordon. If he plays like a pro bowl WR it'll open up the offense regardless of who's playing QB.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Josh Gordon's under incredibly thin ice now.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Josh Gordon's under incredibly thin ice now.
Itís unfortunate.

The kid is blessed with a lot of natural talent. Receivers with his combination of height, weight, and speed donít come around often. Even digressing from triangle numbers, he poses threats as a leaper. When examining the total package, Gordon profiles as a coverage-changing receiver with a wide catching radius. Thatís just what the Browns need. But, at this point, the past doesnít seem to have motivated change for the present. The hope is the threat of a season-long suspension motivates Gordon to make the change, but it wouldnít surprise me if heís busted again. This is his fifth failed drug test since October 2010. His collegiate and NFL careers have been jeopardized before and it hasnít led to modified behavior. Right now, Iím not sure how much favor and trust heís won with the organization. (And, to be clear, Iím not insinuating that Gordon is a ďbadĒ person. As far as I know, heís non-violent and well-liked. From an NFL asset standpoint though, heís unreliable. Itís tough to include an unreliable asset in long-term plans. A talented, suspended receiver is still a useless one.)

Outside of Gordon, Iím excited to see the offense this season. Iím not expecting world-beaters in the slightest, but there are some intriguing things to monitor. What progress Weeden has or hasnít made. How Trent rebounds from rookie injuries. What staples Chud and Norv build around. What the offensive staff implements in an effort to become an efficient red zone offense.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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The last thing we need is another disappointing disaster like Josh Gordon flaming out of the league due to drug or legal stuff. Haven't we had enough bad luck with the few promising young players we get?
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Itís unfortunate.

The kid is blessed with a lot of natural talent. Receivers with his combination of height, weight, and speed donít come around often. Even digressing from triangle numbers, he poses threats as a leaper. When examining the total package, Gordon profiles as a coverage-changing receiver with a wide catching radius. Thatís just what the Browns need. But, at this point, the past doesnít seem to have motivated change for the present. The hope is the threat of a season-long suspension motivates Gordon to make the change, but it wouldnít surprise me if heís busted again. This is his fifth failed drug test since October 2010. His collegiate and NFL careers have been jeopardized before and it hasnít led to modified behavior. Right now, Iím not sure how much favor and trust heís won with the organization. (And, to be clear, Iím not insinuating that Gordon is a ďbadĒ person. As far as I know, heís non-violent and well-liked. From an NFL asset standpoint though, heís unreliable. Itís tough to include an unreliable asset in long-term plans. A talented, suspended receiver is still a useless one.)

Outside of Gordon, Iím excited to see the offense this season. Iím not expecting world-beaters in the slightest, but there are some intriguing things to monitor. What progress Weeden has or hasnít made. How Trent rebounds from rookie injuries. What staples Chud and Norv build around. What the offensive staff implements in an effort to become an efficient red zone offense.
I'm curious about the offense myself. More specifically, I'm looking for better interior run blocking. It was painful to watch Lav and Pinky essentially stand in front of their man for as long as they could the snap of the ball. There has to be push this season inside or Trent's YPC will continue to be underwhelming. I'm also a bit disappointed it wasn't addressed in an earlier round but they're going to have to work with what they have.

Another curiosity: Does Greg Little continue to build off of his second half improvements or does he stagnate? I'm looking to see if the maximized concentration is there on a consistent basis or Norv may become reluctant to go his way if the dropped passes become a predictable theme.

I'm on a tablet so I can't go much further without my thumbs becoming annoyed but I would say those are some important questions for me offensively. I'm not optimistic about Weeden. Sure, his arm strength is adequate but his decision making is what borderline terrifies me most about the season: Has he spent the offseason studying defensive tendencies and disguises? Can he be more disciplined with his downfield throws? Can he be more decisive while in the pocket? This is unquestionably his last season to show the organization he can make this team competitive but I have serious doubt. Perhaps Norv can bring out the best in him but Turner cannnot make the decisions on the field for him.
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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I think analyzing the run blocking is tricky. Play calling, decisiveness & burst of the runner, good run defenses, TE/FB blocking abilities, lack of credible receiving threats...it all plays a part. I tend to lean more toward the thinking that the run blocking on the line wasn't as bad as it appeared at times.

I feel like I already know who Little is. I'll be surprised if his play improves substantially. Gordon, Benjamin and Bess; I'm more excited about them. And Cameron is going to disappoint imo-I just don't see it there.

One of the moves I've heard about I'm really high on. Ogbonn to FB. If that sticks it's a great fit in the new offense.

Going back over a few full games from last year I'm actually pretty excited about Weeden. He did a lot of good things last year without a running game or credible receivers.

Gordon is kinda reminding me of Dez Bryant, as far as the raw ability married to off field concerns. Probably bound to be a little hiccup at some point. Hopefully this is the extent of it and he stays vigilant.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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I think if we had an elite QB like Manning or Brady or Brees or Rodgers then guys like Gordon, Little, Bess, and Cameron would look like stars. Look what happened to Thomas, Decker, etc. in Denver when they signed Peyton. I think we'll get a solid year from all of our pass catchers, but if Weeden is crappy then they won't look as good as they really are. Honestly the thing I'm worried about with Cameron are him staying healthy and him potentially dropping the ball a lot like Evan Moore used to do.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I think Weeden played better than either Little or Gordon last year.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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I think if you had Peyton Manning throwing to Gordon and Little they would look like pro bowlers. If you had Weeden throwing to Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson he still would look kinda meh.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:38 AM    (permalink
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Not too long before our first preseason game against the Rams. I donít expect to see much from the first-team offense or defense, but Iím still excited to watch some of the deeper roster battles in an in-game setting.

QB: I would be surprised if Weeden takes more than a series or two. Doubt thereís much deviation from the script, but I hope heís making quicker decisions and moving his feet better. Campbell to run with the second unit and Hoyer to close the game. Donít expect that to change throughout preseason. Hoyer has never impressed me and Campbell is already a very capable bullpen quarterback.

RB: I donít think weíll see Trent in uniform. Comments from Chud seem to allude to holding him out and saving him for September after his recent shin problems. The move makes perfect sense as a precaution, but itís frustrating that Richardson was drafted to be a bell-cow back and he hasnít been able to get off the trainerís table. Hardestyís still recovering from a strained hamstring, so I wouldnít be shocked if he doesnít get much run either. Great chance to evaluate the depth.

FB: Iím not expecting to see a ton of fullback wrinkles in the very first preseason game, but Iím so glad Ogbonnaya unseated Marecic from the top of the depth chart. Ogbonnaya stands to be better in every conceivable way. I wouldnít even hate it if Marecic lost additional reps to Smelley.

WR: Gordon, Little, Bess, and Benjamin are all safe. That means thereís one or two spots up for grabs. David Nelson was thought to be a good bet for the final roster, but his knee is flaring again. From what Iíve heard, Norwood has been the most consistent performer of the leftovers.

TE: One of the ugliest positions on the roster. Cameron has the upside, but hasnít been too impressive in camp, I guess. Curious to see Barnridge. Heard heís been a steadier presence than Cameron. If heís a better blocker and a reliable outlet over the course of the next few weeks, I wouldnít hesitate to give him the starting job.

OL: The swing tackle and backup center are to be determined, but guard is a free-for-all after Lauvao rolled his ankle and had to be carted off. I think itís safe to pencil Greco into left guard, but right guard and the backup spots are unsettled. Pinkstonís been getting reps at both left and right guard in camp, so it seems like heíll get the first crack at the gig. Hopefully Gilkey steps up.

DL: The front seems quite fluid still. From what Iíve read, a lot of people are getting looks inside and outside in base and sub-packages. Interested to see what looks Horton shows. Heard Sanford has been one of the surprises of camp and one of the scrappiest linemen out there. Can do a lot worse than those kind of linemen as depth.

LB: I think itís safe to call these races, barring injuries. The trio of Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo will rotate at outside linebacker and see significant snaps. Jackson and Robertson will pair together inside. Carder, Fort, and JMJ will fight for their places.

DB: We need Haden to stay healthy. Itís absolutely imperative. Beyond him, the rest of the secondary looks very shaky and young. Right now, reports seem to suggest Owens opposite Haden and Skrine slotted in as the nickel corner with McFadden relegated to six DB sets. The safeties are quite unproven. I guess Gipsonís been getting most of the reps at free with Bademosi spotting him. Bademosi was also listed as Wardís backup in the first depth chart and I read that undrafted rookie Josh Aubrey has turned some heads as a fill-in at strong, too.

ST: As far as kickers and punters go, those will shake themselves out. Whoever makes kicks makes the team. As return specialists, Iíd give Benjamin and Skrine the first opportunities.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Deadspin: Why Your Team Sucks 2013: Cleveland Browns

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