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Old 07-29-2013, 03:20 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I don't buy Jeff Fisher's crap about not wanting Young, bc guess what?

He wanted Leinart instead. So Fisher can suck a fat one. Bc Young was still infinitely better than Matt Leinart.
That may be true, I didn't know that. But I am pretty sure that I read how Fisher absolutely did not want VY running his team, but was forced to play him by the owner.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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I'm a bit curious as to why you are so down on Fisher and the Rams. Is it because he had some rough seasons in Tennessee and never won the Super Bowl? Are you upset because he left? I am being sincere and not trying to be sarcastic or throw jabs. It would just seem to me that you would have warmer feeling towards the guy that was your head coach for so long and won a lot of games for you.

And, for what it's worth, I think Bud Adams should shoulder a lot of the blame for the Titans' struggles during Fisher's tenure. From what I have read (and I don't claim to be the authority on this because I am not a Titans fan) Fisher never wanted Young in the first place; it has been suggested that Adams insisted on drafting Young and playing him as a personal vendetta against the state of Texas, despite the fact that Fisher thought Kerry Collins was the better QB. Would you mind enlightening me as to what really went down, or at least what the public perception there was?

I almost certainly have a biased opinion on the issue, since Fisher is now my team's HC and he has finally brought excitement and legitimacy that has not been here in so long. I am pretty much of the opinion that it was Adams' constant meddling in team affairs that were above his football knowledge that were more to blame for the Titans' failures than Fisher's ineptitude to lead his team to the Championship.
I still respect Jeff Fisher a ton and wish him the best of luck in St. Louis, but I feel being a Titans fan I know him better than pretty much everyone else. During his tenure with us I felt he was a top 10 coach, and I don't think that's changed.

Who are you really going to put Fisher above? All but two of other people mentioned in the top 10 are superbowl winning coaches. He's down at #9 because he's inconsistent as a coach and sometimes gets outcoached. He's rejuvenated right now and he's at his best just like he was at times at Tennessee. He really benefited from being away from the game for a year, studying the game and getting some coordinators.

From my opinion and popular opinion, Fisher liked Leinart due to his USC connection but Bud Adams wanted VY because he saw a popular player and has actually always supported black QB play and thought he had intangibles Leinart didn't. Floyd Reese, the GM at the time from my understanding preferred Jay Cutler, but had VY ranked ahead of Leinart. (again all this is just what i've heard). When Houston took Williams over VY or RBush, I think Adams definitely had visions of VY going to Houston and kicking their butts. Ultimately I think the decision was left up to Floyd Reese. If Leinart had went before the Titans picked, I'm sure Fisher would have been fine with the selection of VY or Cutler, but he didn't like that his opinion was passed over. This is what led him to after the 2006 demanding more control in the draft process and getting Floyd Reese fired. Fisher ended up with his final power play by benching VY for KFC several times over the course of his final years which was fine when the team was winning. When it was clear the team wasn't winning with KFC, Adams forced the play of VY, which basically turned into the "who will Adams choose" fiasco

Either way, I think 9 is an appropriate spot for a coach of Fishers accomplishments.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
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I still respect Jeff Fisher a ton and wish him the best of luck in St. Louis, but I feel being a Titans fan I know him better than pretty much everyone else. During his tenure with us I felt he was a top 10 coach, and I don't think that's changed.

Who are you really going to put Fisher above? All but two of other people mentioned in the top 10 are superbowl winning coaches. He's down at #9 because he's inconsistent as a coach and sometimes gets outcoached. He's rejuvenated right now and he's at his best just like he was at times at Tennessee. He really benefited from being away from the game for a year, studying the game and getting some coordinators.

From my opinion and popular opinion, Fisher liked Leinart due to his USC connection but Bud Adams wanted VY because he saw a popular player and has actually always supported black QB play and thought he had intangibles Leinart didn't. Floyd Reese, the GM at the time from my understanding preferred Jay Cutler, but had VY ranked ahead of Leinart. (again all this is just what i've heard). When Houston took Williams over VY or RBush, I think Adams definitely had visions of VY going to Houston and kicking their butts. Ultimately I think the decision was left up to Floyd Reese. If Leinart had went before the Titans picked, I'm sure Fisher would have been fine with the selection of VY or Cutler, but he didn't like that his opinion was passed over. This is what led him to after the 2006 demanding more control in the draft process and getting Floyd Reese fired. Fisher ended up with his final power play by benching VY for KFC several times over the course of his final years which was fine when the team was winning. When it was clear the team wasn't winning with KFC, Adams forced the play of VY, which basically turned into the "who will Adams choose" fiasco

Either way, I think 9 is an appropriate spot for a coach of Fishers accomplishments.
So it turns out that there was a lot more to the story than what I knew, which is no surprise at all. I don't pretend to keep up on what's going on with every team. But the bottom line is pretty much in line with what I thought...there was a lack of fluidity and synergy between the powers that be during the latter years he spent in Tennessee.

And, FWIW, I thought that the #9 spot was pretty reasonable for Fisher. He definitely has more to prove before becoming a top 5 coach. It was the comments you made that surprised me. It came across as "the honeymoon will be short-lived."
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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So it turns out that there was a lot more to the story than what I knew, which is no surprise at all. I don't pretend to keep up on what's going on with every team. But the bottom line is pretty much in line with what I thought...there was a lack of fluidity and synergy between the powers that be during the latter years he spent in Tennessee.

And, FWIW, I thought that the #9 spot was pretty reasonable for Fisher. He definitely has more to prove before becoming a top 5 coach. It was the comments you made that surprised me. It came across as "the honeymoon will be short-lived."
I can understand that, I didn't mean it like that but after reviewing it I can definitely see how it can be interpreted like that. What I meant was he's rejuvenated and coaching close to the best I've ever seen him right now, he's building piecing and putting them in place. He will do well in St. Louis, and should be there for 10 years IF he wants to be. Durign those times, there will be a lot of up years but there will be a couple here and there where the team just doesn't live up to expectations.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it's fair to rank guys like Bradley, Chudzinski, Trestman, Kelly, Marrone, etc. who haven't been NFL head coaches before.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I can understand that, I didn't mean it like that but after reviewing it I can definitely see how it can be interpreted like that. What I meant was he's rejuvenated and coaching close to the best I've ever seen him right now, he's building piecing and putting them in place. He will do well in St. Louis, and should be there for 10 years IF he wants to be. Durign those times, there will be a lot of up years but there will be a couple here and there where the team just doesn't live up to expectations.
I think that is a fair assessment. Even the greatest coaches have down years.

Just to make it clear, I don't have dreams of grandiosity, like SB after SB or anything like that. What I would like to see from the Rams is for them to become a perennial contender. It is very early in their building process, but I have to say I like how the journey has begun.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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I don't think it's fair to rank guys like Bradley, Chudzinski, Trestman, Kelly, Marrone, etc. who haven't been NFL head coaches before.
All rookie coaches are placed 27-32 for that reason. If you don't like it just act like the list ends after 26
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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lmao at calling Kerry Collins KFC
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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lmao at calling Kerry Collins KFC
He's "Kerry F'n Collins"
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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It's really just difficult for coaches to stay at the same place for so long and experience success and build a team and keep players motivated.

We saw it with Andy Reid last year, and with Shanahan in his last years with Denver.
yep couldnt agree more. thats why I dont hold it much against Fisher or Reid when things stopped working for them after 10+ years of success. Fisher seems to be on the right track in STL. Well see with Reid in KC. I like the moves they made in the offseason, but I still think he shoulda taken time off to deal with personal tragedy. I wonder if he is trying to block it out. I dunno hard to really assess that kind of thing.

With Shanny I dont cut him so much slack cuz hes just been such a douche since he took over. From insisting on playing Rex Grossman and John Beck and acting like it was actually gonna work, to trading an absolutely ridiculous package for RG3 (as good as he is, I still think they overpaid and will not be able to surround him with necessary talent as a result), to letting Griffin play hurt in his rookie season when they were obviously not going to be making a deep playoff run and potentially ruining a budding superstars career, to hiring his lame-ass some as the offensive coordinator, I just dont have a lot of respect for the man and the way he handles his business. His ego is ridiculous. I suppose he proved this year he still has the touch with the ZBS and late round running backs.

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He got them a QB, whether that was Ozzie getting the right man or John and the coaching staff developing him I'll never know. But the difference is that Brian Billick could never get the QB and John did.
yeah, but not just the QB, but the QB and the right group of weapons to surround him. Boldin, Torrey Smith, Pitta, Dickson, Rice, Pierce, Jacoby...It was a very well contructed offense. Was it Newsome or Harbaugh or a collaborative effort? I really dont know. But yes, that is what got them over the hump. And Flacco was drafted in Harbaughs first year as coach, so Flacco was kind of harbaughs guy in that sense. Most coaches love to draft a QB right when they start over, and that QB ends up defining them usually.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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He's "Kerry F'n Collins"
yeah i figured that out lol still cracks me up
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