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Old 06-18-2013, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JBScouting View Post
Here are the names who scouts have as the highest rated entering the year (there are 3 non FBS QBs being considered as draftable prospects as well)

A.J. McCarron Alabama
Tajh Boyd Clemson
Derek Carr Fresno State
Aaron Murray Georgia
Zach Mettenberger LSU
Stephen Morris Miami
Tyler Russell Mississippi State
Kain Colter Northwestern
Tom Savage Pittsburgh
David Fales San Jose State
Connor Shaw South Carolina
Casey Pachall TCU
Logan Thomas Virginia Tech
Keith Price Washington
How in the world can a QB who hasn't been able to win a starting job since his Freshman year be considered an NFL prospect? It isn't like Matt Cassel where he backed up a 1st Round pick either, the kid just sucks at football.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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I had to read this twice because I thought Brooks might be on the pipe or something. Carr is dogshit. Does anyone agree with Brooks??

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Fresno State senior Derek Carr is a "legitimate franchise quarterback candidate" in the eyes of NFL.com's Bucky Brooks.
"He displays A-plus arm talent, while also showing impressive accuracy, ball placement and touch on passes of all ranges," Brooks writes. "However, scouts have concerns about his ability to make sound decisions under pressure based on the number of forced throws and dropped interceptions that show up on tape." We look forward to seeing Carr at full strength, but saying he needs to improve his pocket poise is an understatement.
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Bucky Brooks also thought Mike Glennon was a top 5 talent in last year's draft.
IMO Brooks is no more than a single data point when it comes to evaluating prospects.

He's never the final say on a player because there's too many misses in his analysis.

Physical tools alone don't make you a franchise type prospect.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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I had to read this twice because I thought Brooks might be on the pipe or something. Carr is dogshit. Does anyone agree with Brooks??
Maybe the "franchise" part of it is assuming significant improvement in the pocket in which case he wouldn't be that far off.

Besides that he didn't really say much that isn't true. Carr has a cannon for an arm and can and often does make every throw on the field effortlessly but badly needs to improve his pocket presence.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ROFLcopter View Post
Maybe the "franchise" part of it is assuming significant improvement in the pocket in which case he wouldn't be that far off.

Besides that he didn't really say much that isn't true. Carr has a cannon for an arm and can and often does make every throw on the field effortlessly but badly needs to improve his pocket presence.
Agree. Not a fan of Brooks but I think he's saying the kid has that sort of potential.

My guess is Carr Gets somewhat negatively valued because of his brothers struggles.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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I had to read this twice because I thought Brooks might be on the pipe or something. Carr is dogshit. Does anyone agree with Brooks??
I agree with everything said there. He has the physical tools to be a very good QB. However, he looks scared in the pocket and will force balls into bad spots when pressured because of it.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Agree. Not a fan of Brooks but I think he's saying the kid has that sort of potential.

My guess is Carr Gets somewhat negatively valued because of his brothers struggles.
Honestly, I gave him a few looks BECAUSE of his brother. David is one of those players that I think could have been successful if he had not been put in such a ****** situation to begin his career (Similar to Tim Couch).

That being said, I've watched Carr on 4-5 occasions and have come away thinking he was horrible pretty much every time.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I gave him a few looks BECAUSE of his brother. David is one of those players that I think could have been successful if he had not been put in such a ****** situation to begin his career (Similar to Tim Couch).

That being said, I've watched Carr on 4-5 occasions and have come away thinking he was horrible pretty much every time.
The most easily accessible games in terms of film from last year are the ones he did poorly in...He tore up a pretty decent SDSU team but due to the network it was on I can't find anything besides the highlights. Needs a good deal of work but the sample size people look at is pretty small.

Agreed on David although I think he was overdrafted a bit...that was a weak QB class that year IIRC. Damn Texans should have built from the ground up, not wasted a #1 pick on someone that would end up as a de facto tackling dummy.

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Old 07-21-2013, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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The most easily accessible games in terms of film from last year are the ones he did poorly in...He tore up a pretty decent SDSU team but due to the network it was on I can't find anything besides the highlights. Needs a good deal of work but the sample size people look at is pretty small.

Agreed on David although I think he was overdrafted a bit...that was a weak QB class that year IIRC. Damn Texans should have built from the ground up, not wasted a #1 pick on someone that would end up as a de facto tackling dummy.
That bowl game performance last year was Sanchez-esque.

I'll give him a few more looks next year as a Senior, but I'm not expecting much from him unless he really worked on his game. A lot of weaknesses are mental it seems, and that doesn't usually change for the better.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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That bowl game performance last year was Sanchez-esque.

I'll give him a few more looks next year as a Senior, but I'm not expecting much from him unless he really worked on his game. A lot of weaknesses are mental it seems, and that doesn't usually change for the better.
This is a good point. As a general rule of thumb, if they arenīt comfortable in the pocket in college, they arenīt gonna be it in the NFL. (Blaine Gabbert, Im looking in your direction..)
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Agree. Not a fan of Brooks but I think he's saying the kid has that sort of potential.

My guess is Carr Gets somewhat negatively valued because of his brothers struggles.
The thing that makes me leery of him is that he has the same issues as his brother. David Carr had a fine arm, he was athletic and he could make the throws, he just wasn't any good under pressure, and especially on a team that blocked as poorly as the Texans did in their initial years, he couldn't hack it. His brother looks the same way to me; when he's in a clean pocket, he can make all the throws. When pressure gets to him he stops looking downfield, or makes an ill-advised throw. He seems to have a hard time evading pressure. He doesn't hit his escape lanes very well, more often getting tunnel vision towards the closest thing that looks like an opening and running into a defender for a sack. I haven't watched a ton of Carr, but my impression is that his pocket awareness and presence rate somewhere around "poor." That can always change as I watch more, but that's what's in my head at the moment.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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This is a good point. As a general rule of thumb, if they arenīt comfortable in the pocket in college, they arenīt gonna be it in the NFL. (Blaine Gabbert, Im looking in your direction..)
You just made him fall to the ground and drop whatever he's holding.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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Tajh Boyd at one time was listed at 6'2, so I'd bank he's at least 6'1. We'll know for sure this time next year.
I have seen Tahj Boyd in person. I am 5 10 he is a little taller then me so 6'1 is about right
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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I'm starting to see AJ McCarron in quite a few mocks as a 1st Rounder. I know he has a track record of winning games with 2 Nat'l Titles to add under his belt, but Alabama is known for pounding the ball with their stable of RBs. I don't see how it would be possible for him to make it in the 1st Round at all.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I'm starting to see AJ McCarron in quite a few mocks as a 1st Rounder. I know he has a track record of winning games with 2 Nat'l Titles to add under his belt, but Alabama is known for pounding the ball with their stable of RBs. I don't see how it would be possible for him to make it in the 1st Round at all.
This time 365 days ago Matt Barkley was the consensus #1 pick.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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This time 365 days ago Matt Barkley was the consensus #1 pick.
Could you tell me how it would be possible for him to go Round 1?
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Could you tell me how it would be possible for him to go Round 1?
Think he's just saying a lot changes between mock drafts that happen a year before the actual draft. i.e., Matt Barkley was projected to go no. 1 overall but went in the 4th round, a much more reasonable place to expect McCarron to go off the board. I don't think McCarron is a 1st-rounder unless he shows something special this year. As it is, it looks like he could have some starting potential, but the teams that are likely to go quarterback in the first round are going to have several options; the league is increasingly looking to more athletic quarterbacks and Bridgewater, Boyd, Devin Gardner, and Stephen Morris are all good prospects in their own right and have more athletic upside. If they all have good seasons, there's a good half-dozen names who could go before McCarron, just like this year as we watched the "rawer," but more athletically gifted athletes EJ Manuel and Geno Smith go ahead of the more "pro-ready" Barkley.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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What exactly is athletic upside (besides the obvious racial undertones)? When listing QBs with athletic upside why did you not mention Bryn Renner or Manziel? Not to mention guys like Cody Fajardo and Derek Carr. People talk of Pro-ready QBs as they are what they are right out of the gate and they have no room to grow and develop. The position is and always will be played from the pocket first. Pocket mobility is essential. The guys throwing 40-50 TDs are the ones playing from within the pocket.

McCarron has 1st round potential for sure, good size, tons of experience, good arm, accurate and a winner.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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What exactly is athletic upside (besides the obvious racial undertones)? When listing QBs with athletic upside why did you not mention Bryn Renner or Manziel? Not to mention guys like Cody Fajardo and Derek Carr. People talk of Pro-ready QBs as they are what they are right out of the gate and they have no room to grow and develop. The position is and always will be played from the pocket first. Pocket mobility is essential. The guys throwing 40-50 TDs are the ones playing from within the pocket.

McCarron has 1st round potential for sure, good size, tons of experience, good arm, accurate and a winner.
Oh, shut the **** up. If you can't see an athletic difference between Barkley and the likes of Geno Smith and EJ Manuel... you're beyond help. Manziel is a head case, Carr shouldn't be drafted anywhere near the first round, and I don't believe in Renner at all.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Think he's just saying a lot changes between mock drafts that happen a year before the actual draft. i.e., Matt Barkley was projected to go no. 1 overall but went in the 4th round, a much more reasonable place to expect McCarron to go off the board. I don't think McCarron is a 1st-rounder unless he shows something special this year. As it is, it looks like he could have some starting potential, but the teams that are likely to go quarterback in the first round are going to have several options; the league is increasingly looking to more athletic quarterbacks and Bridgewater, Boyd, Devin Gardner, and Stephen Morris are all good prospects in their own right and have more athletic upside. If they all have good seasons, there's a good half-dozen names who could go before McCarron, just like this year as we watched the "rawer," but more athletically gifted athletes EJ Manuel and Geno Smith go ahead of the more "pro-ready" Barkley.
I think with a shortage of great QBs like Brady, Rodgers, Manning (plural), Luck the tendency is to think you get a mobile QB and you'll have success with that. My guess is most teams would jump at the chance to get one of the ones i mentioned.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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I think with a shortage of great QBs like Brady, Rodgers, Manning (plural), Luck the tendency is to think you get a mobile QB and you'll have success with that. My guess is most teams would jump at the chance to get one of the ones i mentioned.
Right, and we're talking about the draft, and not the Hall of Fame. Lately teams have been looking to a different kind of quarterback, and it's the dual-threats who've been making the biggest splash. The last guy to enter the league and have major success as a purely "pocket passer" (really no threat to run) is probably Matt Ryan, and that was like 5 years ago.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Right, and we're talking about the draft, and not the Hall of Fame. Lately teams have been looking to a different kind of quarterback, and it's the dual-threats who've been making the biggest splash. The last guy to enter the league and have major success as a purely "pocket passer" (really no threat to run) is probably Matt Ryan, and that was like 5 years ago.
I'd say Luck is pretty much a pocket passer and i tend to think Matthew Stafford has done pretty well also.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I'd say Luck is pretty much a pocket passer and i tend to think Matthew Stafford has done pretty well also.
The thing is in being a pocket passer, Luck has nearly identical athleticism to Cam Newton.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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The thing is in being a pocket passer, Luck has nearly identical athleticism to Cam Newton.
And that's where I'm coming from. "Making plays with his legs" isn't necessarily about rushing yards. That's why I qualified Matt Ryan as "not a threat to run." Stafford, meh. If he hadn't blown up in 2011 I'm not sure there'd be much difference between him and Josh Freeman.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Remember the surge of Dual thread Qbs around late 90s/2000s.

Alki, McNabb, Culpepper, Vick, King, Carter, David Garrard, Car.
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