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Old 09-19-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Eli was covering for Nicks. That was zone and the fade was the hole in the zone. Eli threw the fade, Nicks ran a post. Interception.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, that was a very tight window and Eli should have never thrown it anyway. He had Cruz on a dig underneath that was open.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Agreed with this. Seeing Nicks run to the left while Eli was throwing to the back corner right before half killed me. Totally changes the game if we get a TD there.
This BS has been killing me since the system was established. EA talked about this in the 4 Int game against the Vikings back in 2007, where 2 Ints were on Shockey and Plax.

This has been the bane of my existence watching this system for so long. Ball goes left, WR goes right. Ball goes right, WR goes left. WR runs a curl, Ball goes deep for a go route. Over and over and over and over again!!

I am so tired of it. Done man. I am over this BS.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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We've been over it ad nauseum. I'm sick of discussing it at this point haha. Let's just hope everyone gets on the same page so the season isn't over before it really began.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I think we all hate the system. We've all been here for awhile and we all know this system pretty well and our hatred of it is well documented.

There's really no point in talking about it. As long as Eli is our qb, Coughlin is our coach, we'll run this. Just gonna have to deal with it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Well this current moment we are having failures in both areas of offense and defense. Offense we know, and defense ZERO pass rush and the blitzes aren't getting home. The secondary has played better than I thought in limiting the home run balls. However, the hallmark of this system is turnovers which the defense creates. Now we aren't getting those either. Right now both sides of the ball is an issue.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Players gotta play better bro. It's on the players.

The schemes won't change. We know that. The players have to play better. I've gotten away from being overly critical of Xs and Os (at least I've tried to) because I've learned that it really comes down to execution. No play is designed to not work. You gotta make plays.

I'm more interested in individual techniques and fundamentals of assignment football than the higher level Xs and Os of coaching now. Bc almost every goof can be attributed to poor technique, poor awareness, poor execution of individual players and assignments.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Players gotta play better bro. It's on the players.

The schemes won't change. We know that. The players have to play better. I've gotten away from being overly critical of Xs and Os (at least I've tried to) because I've learned that it really comes down to execution. No play is designed to not work. You gotta make plays.

I'm more interested in individual techniques and fundamentals of assignment football than the higher level Xs and Os of coaching now. Bc almost every goof can be attributed to poor technique, poor awareness, poor execution of individual players and assignments.

I am more interested in the Xs and Os. Execution needs to happen, but my job as a coach is to scheme around and make sure you're guys can't execute. If they do their HW and listen to the system, it will make your job to execute harder. During the game, my guys in the boothe are better than your guys. So I am sure our scheme, and game plan will be better than yours. You won't execute because of that.

We have issues with Xs and Os at times on both sides and execution. So it's both, and that's fair. However due to the complexity of our system, we have zero margin of error. The slightest mistake instead of being an inc. pass now becomes an int. We also have flat out execution mistakes with Cruz and sometimes Nicks with drops.

Right now, this game is a must win. I don't want us going to 0-3 with the KC, Bears, and Eagles on the horizon. We NEED to get this victory on sunday at 1.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I am more interested in the Xs and Os. Execution needs to happen, but my job as a coach is to scheme around and make sure you're guys can't execute. If they do their HW and listen to the system, it will make your job to execute harder. During the game, my guys in the boothe are better than your guys. So I am sure our scheme, and game plan will be better than yours. You won't execute because of that.

We have issues with Xs and Os at times on both sides and execution. So it's both, and that's fair. However due to the complexity of our system, we have zero margin of error. The slightest mistake instead of being an inc. pass now becomes an int. We also have flat out execution mistakes with Cruz and sometimes Nicks with drops.

Right now, this game is a must win. I don't want us going to 0-3 with the KC, Bears, and Eagles on the horizon. We NEED to get this victory on sunday at 1.
It's actually a great question to ask: As a coach, how much do you stress scheme vs technique?

You have guys like Lombardi who were notoriously simple in their Xs and Os but demanded incredible technique and consistency in execution.

Then you have guys like Bellichick who throw the playbook at you.

Tony Dungy who ran an incredibly simple yet effective scheme that stressed execution and technique. Lovie Smith did the same.

Then you have a guy like Rex Ryan who throws multiple formations and blitzes at you.


I think it really comes down to individual preference. I'm still learning so I can't say I'm an expert in any category but I do want to improve my knowledge of individual techniques.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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It's actually a great question to ask: As a coach, how much do you stress scheme vs technique?

You have guys like Lombardi who were notoriously simple in their Xs and Os but demanded incredible technique and consistency in execution.

Then you have guys like Bellichick who throw the playbook at you.

Tony Dungy who ran an incredibly simple yet effective scheme that stressed execution and technique. Lovie Smith did the same.

Then you have a guy like Rex Ryan who throws multiple formations and blitzes at you.


I think it really comes down to individual preference. I'm still learning so I can't say I'm an expert in any category but I do want to improve my knowledge of individual techniques.

I think when given a choice the old adage take both is the answer. I'd want both, however, if I am the OC the big picture or scheme is what I want sound, and if I see bad technique coach the player or tell the position coach to coach that.

Now what happens if technique is bad all over the place, across different positions? Is that Reese or Ross's fault for picking the players? Coughlin for allowing them to make the team? Fewell for the scheme? Position coach for not being effective? Maybe it's all of the above.

Sometimes a system is so good that it puts guys in a spot to succeed. Rex Ryan's system is great. Seems like he can plug and play and good things happen more often than naught in his system. They simply beat you with their Xs and Os, and the execution of that takes over to allow success.

I have position books and playbooks you would like. I studied all that years ago when I coached, From the various techiques in the playbook to the various drills that stress everything. I still have those binders. You should see what position you want to view and go at it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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I think when given a choice the old adage take both is the answer. I'd want both, however, if I am the OC the big picture or scheme is what I want sound, and if I see bad technique coach the player or tell the position coach to coach that.

Now what happens if technique is bad all over the place, across different positions? Is that Reese or Ross's fault for picking the players? Coughlin for allowing them to make the team? Fewell for the scheme? Position coach for not being effective? Maybe it's all of the above.

Sometimes a system is so good that it puts guys in a spot to succeed. Rex Ryan's system is great. Seems like he can plug and play and good things happen more often than naught in his system. They simply beat you with their Xs and Os, and the execution of that takes over to allow success.

I have position books and playbooks you would like. I studied all that years ago when I coached, From the various techiques in the playbook to the various drills that stress everything. I still have those binders. You should see what position you want to view and go at it.
I would love to see the positional books. I think that would be really cool and I'd feel way more awesome when I arm-chair scout guys and could analyze their technique.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Our offense is what it is, one of the most complex vertical passing attacks that manages to be simply unstoppable when everything's humming, and hysterically awful when things go wrong. That's what we've got, and honestly I'm ok with it, it's not our offense that has kept us from having a third ring after all, and when Eli runs it out of the hurry up we're insanely good at it. So I'm fine with the system even if I've bitched about it and killdrive's play calling as much as anyone other than nug. With Eli and those weapons we've just gotta keep rebuilding the OL and for Wilson to step up for us to be the most explosive offense in the NFL.

It's getting the defense to match up that'll be the problem, although even there we've got some sweet pieces to build around with JPP, Moore, Joseph/BigHank, Jacquain, Prince and Hosley.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Our offense is what it is, one of the most complex vertical passing attacks that manages to be simply unstoppable when everything's humming, and hysterically awful when things go wrong. That's what we've got, and honestly I'm ok with it, it's not our offense that has kept us from having a third ring after all, and when Eli runs it out of the hurry up we're insanely good at it. So I'm fine with the system even if I've bitched about it and killdrive's play calling as much as anyone other than nug. With Eli and those weapons we've just gotta keep rebuilding the OL and for Wilson to step up for us to be the most explosive offense in the NFL.

It's getting the defense to match up that'll be the problem, although even there we've got some sweet pieces to build around with JPP, Moore, Joseph/BigHank, Jacquain, Prince and Hosley.
Please do this more. I'm sick and tired of the it tires out the D excuse. Just do it 2 extra times a game please Mr. Old Man Coughlin.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Are we gunna have any money for FAs this year? I could see both Byrd and Mack walking and either one would be huge for us. Mack is a really good C and would be a better version of when we picked up O'Hara from them, and Byrd is just awesome, the second best centerfielder in the NFL who's also a lot more complete than Earl Thomas. If we could snag either one that would be amazing.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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Are we gunna have any money for FAs this year? I could see both Byrd and Mack walking and either one would be huge for us. Mack is a really good C and would be a better version of when we picked up O'Hara from them, and Byrd is just awesome, the second best centerfielder in the NFL who's also a lot more complete than Earl Thomas. If we could snag either one that would be amazing.
It depends on what we do with our young guys like Nicks, JPP, and Linval but restructing Snee and Baas after this year will give us big money. Also since we havent restructured Eli we'll get money from that.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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We have like 20 something FAs after this season don't we?

Our roster is going to be very different in 2014.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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It's a lot but mostly our garbage players.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Well our OL is gonna lose some guys no? Diehl is gonna be gone, I'd imagine we cut Baas at his cap #.

Rolle might be gone at his cap #. Web is a FA I believe. Thomas and Ross are FAs (i think). Snee should get cut but won't. Tuck is a FA. Isn't Kiwi a FA too?

Herzlich is a FA. JWill too I believe. Or maybe he has one more year.

Joseph is a FA. Jeez this team is gonna get gutted!
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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Just looked. It's worse than that even. No Williams. All 3 Browns, Linval, Ross, Tuck, Rivers, Paysinger, Trattou, Rogers, Mundy, Patterson, Murphy, Pascoe, Mcbride, Herzlich, Hynoski, Diehl , Cordle, Boothe. Nicks RFA. Thomas and Myers not sure.

Throw in the overpaid nature of Baas, Rolle, and Snee and I have no idea what this team looks like next year.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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We could be big spenders in FA the way it's looking. Our roster could get completely gutted.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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We should have money for Nicks and JPP and the way they're playing and the injury thing maybe we get them for cheaper than we think.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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That would be great if we can keep both. I want to go after Byrd too.

Re-sign our guys, get Byrd, and retool through the draft. Maybe sign a FA OLmen too if we have money.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
That would be great if we can keep both. I want to go after Byrd too.

Re-sign our guys, get Byrd, and retool through the draft. Maybe sign a FA OLmen too if we have money.
Looks like nicks and JPP are the only guys we have to resign that'll take big money to get signed, although if jacquain's an FA he could get some good money. Joseph I'm assuming we let walk for big hank. After that I'd like to see guys like Stevie, Patterson, Boothe, and the old corners back if they come cheap. If we could then go after Mack and/or Byrd that would be awesome. Cut Diehl and Baas, restructure/cut Snee's and Rolle, and go after those two FAs hard and we'll be nasty. With our whole draft to find another guard, LB and DB.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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So you'd want Byrd and Rolle?
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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If we can rework Rolle to make him affordable? Sure, he's still a very good in the box safety who's ability to step up and cover the nickel is very useful. Realistically we'd cut Rolle and use his money to put Byrd next to Stevie, but if we can put all 3 out there that'd be awesome.
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