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Old 09-12-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
WCH
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I seem to remember reading a study sometime around 2007, in the Pro Football Prospectus, that indicated that it can in fact be detrimental to move your offensive linemen from position to position. The teams with the best OL seemed to be the teams that would leave their guys at one position.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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I seem to remember reading a study sometime around 2007, in the Pro Football Prospectus, that indicated that it can in fact be detrimental to move your offensive linemen from position to position. The teams with the best OL seemed to be the teams that would leave their guys at one position.
I generally agree that it's better to keep guys in the same spots but I think any "studies" about it are going to be flawed. Obviously teams that have bad offensive lines are going to be more likely to try shuffling things around.

I have a hunch that if the 49ers reconfigured their line every week they would still get better offensive line play than the Packers even if we stuck with the same lineup.

Tangent aside, I agree with you guys. If a guy goes down (for a week or two) I'd rather just plug in a new guy and potentially be poor at that spot/average across the rest of the line rather than move everyone around and be below average everywhere.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Finley went to Minnesota to receive treatment on his injured toe. Still no idea what exactly is the issue, but it looks like he really will be a game time call for Sunday
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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....and with that said, he returned to practice today. Sitton did as well. Burnett also practiced for the 2nd straight day
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Finley went to Minnesota to receive treatment on his injured toe. Still no idea what exactly is the issue, but it looks like he really will be a game time call for Sunday
He was in pads and practicing today. As was Sitton. Then again, Burnett was doing that this time last week.

Still, a good sign for Finley and Sitton. I would definitely think Sitton is the more important of the two; I don't feel like Finley is critical to our offense while our big three receivers are healthy.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Lol at EDS on this screen




dude didn't get a body on ANYBODY.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Lol at EDS on this screen




dude didn't get a body on ANYBODY.
LOL.

That's pretty epic. All he has to do is tap 31 and Lacy scores for sure. Instead it almost seems like he moves out of his way.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I generally agree that it's better to keep guys in the same spots but I think any "studies" about it are going to be flawed. Obviously teams that have bad offensive lines are going to be more likely to try shuffling things around.

I have a hunch that if the 49ers reconfigured their line every week they would still get better offensive line play than the Packers even if we stuck with the same lineup.

Tangent aside, I agree with you guys. If a guy goes down (for a week or two) I'd rather just plug in a new guy and potentially be poor at that spot/average across the rest of the line rather than move everyone around and be below average everywhere.
Here's the other thing about that study:
Teams who's guys somehow stay healthy, like San Fran and Minnesota last year missing ZERO combined starts by their preferred starting-5, are going to have more success than teams like us who somehow see guys get hurt all the time.
That causes juggling at times, and means you have worse guys playing than the better preferred-5.

I believe if our Sherrod & Bulaga had been able to stay healthy, our OL would be a serious strength instead of this.... so we can't really blame their s****ness on the juggling per se.

However, I agree it would be best to leave the guys at the position they are best at if possible.

I like Barclay at RT.
Seeing EDS above NOT MAUL someone when he had the chance, that pisses me off.
That's a pu$$y mentality and we don't want that from our O-line.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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We need to stop resorting to the injury excuse so much. Yes, we do run into the injury bug but what makes it worse is that we have to have some of the worst depth in the entire league. San Francisco is the gold standard for building a roster and Thompson has failed in the department since our Super Bowl victory.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I'd say the Packers do have good depth. They've continued to be a good/playoff team year after year despite so many injuries

problem is they seem to get injuries in the areas where they LACK depth. Safety, OLB, and OL are the main concerns. I'd say ILB is to, but that's moreso a talent issue because I'm not sure the backups(Francois and Barrington) would provide much drop-off from their current starters. I wouldn't say the Niners are exactly the gold standard, either. Their D dropped off significantly with the loss of Justin Smith last year. They just have more playmakers among their starting 22 guys, but they have weakness at certain spots. WR is one right now, CB depth IMO is another. No team is perfect


the D needs more studs on each level. They basically got Clay Matthews, but they need somebody up front on the DL and they need another one at the backend at Safety(Burnett has the potential to develop into that)
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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We need to stop resorting to the injury excuse so much. Yes, we do run into the injury bug but what makes it worse is that ......
Imagine how Thompson feels about that.
First round picks are premium.

He sees how good Rodgers is in his first year, 2008, and 2009.

So he invests a #1 pick on Bryan Bulaga. Then, next year, he also invests another #1 pick on an OT.
That should be bookends for Rodgers going forward.

Guys after that should become "depth". Instead, they've had to be patched into starters.

It's a trickle-down effect.

I feel bad for Ted because that OL affects everything..... it's amazing how great Rodgers has still been.

And it's amazing how good the Niners depth appears to be.
Make those bench guys into starters, and then see who becomes their depth after that, and how much worse their new starting OL would be..... injuries are not an excuse. They are a big factor.

How could we get Joe Thomas from Cleveland? They should focus on rebuilding. Again.
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I agree with BloodBrother, don't confuse depth with talent. 49ers are clearly more talented overall across both lines and at linebacker. However, if they were to lose a key guy they could likely withstand it not because the backup is so great but because the other talented guys are there to step up. For example if Aldon went down there would definitely be a drop off to Lemonier, but they would still have J. Smith, Brooks, Bowman, and Willis. That speaks to talent not depth. If we lose Clay we don't have other proven playmakers to step up. Maybe Jones and Perry can be those guys at some point this season.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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We saw the difference in the 49er defense when Justin Smith became hobbled late last year.
They didn't even lose him for the season like we did Cullen Jenkins, Mike Neal, Justin Harrell, etc.

Their depth would look a lot worse if they lost Iupati and Staley for the season, or Aldon or Justin Smith.
They just have magically managed to avoid serious injuries to key players, with the exception now of Crabtree. Still, in that case, he got hurt so early, he will be back well before late in the season.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Packers WR Triplets thru 2 games against 2012 Playoff teams:

James Jones: NFL TD leader last year. This year, on pace for 88 catches and over 1,400 yards.

Randall Cobb: On pace for 128 catches and over 1,800 yards, also 16 TD's.

Jordy Nelson: On pace for 80catches, over 1,600 yards, and 24 TDs.

Aaron Rodgers, by the way, on pace for: 6,500 yards passing and 56 TDs. He leads the league in passing yards (yes more than Peyton), and his 127.2 passer rating is 2nd, behind Peyton. But it would be ahead of Peyton had Finley not foot-setted that pass into Eric Reid's hands for a terrible interception charged to Rodgers.
Rodgers yards per attempt is an unreal 10.29, to Peyton's 9.05.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Packers WR Triplets thru 2 games against 2012 Playoff teams:

James Jones: NFL TD leader last year. This year, on pace for 88 catches and over 1,400 yards.

Randall Cobb: On pace for 128 catches and over 1,800 yards, also 16 TD's.

Jordy Nelson: On pace for 80catches, over 1,600 yards, and 24 TDs.

Aaron Rodgers, by the way, on pace for: 6,500 yards passing and 56 TDs. He leads the league in passing yards (yes more than Peyton), and his 127.2 passer rating is 2nd, behind Peyton. But it would be ahead of Peyton had Finley not foot-setted that pass into Eric Reid's hands for a terrible interception charged to Rodgers.
Rodgers yards per attempt is an unreal 10.29, to Peyton's 9.05.
It's beginning to look a lot like 2011.. All around Green Bay..... Rodgers is throwing for yards. The TDs are nice too... With Cobb and Nelson healthy finally.

This could be another freakish passing year for Rodgers, especially if we are able to keep dealing the ball out quickly and the WRs keep getting that YAC. There was a stat that Rodgers got the ball out in under 2.5 seconds on 34? or 35 of his 42 passes against the Skins. That's a recipe for success.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers has just been amazing. I just saw that he's thrown 107 TDs and only 17 INTs since the midway point of 2010. He also hasn't had a 2 INT game during that period. This could turn into the best multi-season hot streak in NFL history.

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Old 09-17-2013, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers has just been amazing. I just saw that he's thrown 107 TDs and only 17 INTs since the midway point of 2010. He also hasn't had a 2 INT game during that period. This could turn into the best multi-season hot streak in NFL history.
That's unfuckingbelievable. We're so spoiled.

And I bet at least 4 of those paltry 17 Ints were passes that hit out receivers hands first.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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I just stumbled across some old reports from 2007 about the Packers offering 1st and 4th round picks for Larry Johnson. After a trade down, that 1st round pick eventually became Jordy Nelson.

Sometimes these non-moves really work out.
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts going into the Bye:

-The seeds for a quality rushing attack appear to be in place, finally. Eddie Lacy might not have shown much, but he certainly hits the line with bigger pop than anyone we've seen since, I dunno- Ryan Grant in '07? Meanwhile Johnathan Franklin didn't showcase pop but instead displayed fantastic mobility on a scale that I'm very sure this team HASN'T seen in decades, if ever. The only drawback is his ability to absorb the playbook and understand his assignments, which is probably why he only got in when injuries forced their hand. As for James Starks, reasonable replacement in a pinch, has enough all-around ability to be the next Tony Fisher in the backfield stable.

-James Jones might have been a fluke last year, or maybe opposing defenses are blanketing him like he's a true #1. Either way it's hard to get him involved and he suffered a gaffe today that should've earned him another chewing out from Rodgers.

-The 4th and Inches call is what I like to call 'Pittsburgh Stubborn'. I thought of that term as a play on TT's comment on McCarthy being 'Pittsburgh Tough' as a reason to select him as Head Coach. But really, nothing in the past FOUR YEARS has given any evidence that Green Bay's O-Line can win a must-win trench battle for short-yardage, especially when against a front four that largely dominated them all game. Their best performances overall were misdirecting the defense and allowing Franklin to cut back into the hole. They are a finesse group trying to play powerhouse.

-Speaking of the OL, when is the dang unit going to be stable? Can't seem to get either of their 1st Round picks at Tackle in the starting lineup due to bad luck with injuries, and the interior of the line lacks power, which doesn't help the youngsters on the edges.

-The Dom Capers style of defense worked in '10 because of several players who are no longer on the team, guys like Charles Woodson(retired), Nick Collins(career-ending injury), and even Cullen Jenkins(Free Agency). It's a defense designed to kill offenses with turnovers. It's not designed to contain offenses when they need a stop, and it's most certainly not designed to work if the secondary is so beat up that they are young and green. The gimmick of 2 or maybe less down linemen? Worked a few years ago when the DL was ravaged with injuries and lack of quality performers. Nowadays offenses can gash that formation for big yards.

-Secondary is very much muddled. Morgan Burnett and Casey Heyward are not turning this unit anywhere above average, much less elite. The safeties will still lack the range to cover the cornerbacks. Tramon Williams has essentially devolved into a nickelback nowadays and repeatedly proved that he needs a safety net the majority of the time he covers receivers. Sam Shields might be best suited for locking down the opponent's best receiver, if the defense played that way, but that's really only because of his speed- he's still a #2 corner at heart. As far as everyone else is concerned, they range from acceptable(Micah Hyde might be groomable as the 'Woodson' role on this defense if Capers really wants to stay stubborn in his play-calling, but really he's a half-step slow in coverage) to replacement level.

-I can't fault Jeremy Ross for his goof early on today. Just can't. Whether it was the wind or the sun, the fact is returners don't try to catch the ball in a full forward dash for a reason; there's a VERY tiny window between the momentum of the player and the ball for a stable catch and failure usually ends up like it did there. (Canning him is NOT an option, unless you wanna roll the dice on Franklin or try and find a Free Agent out there).

-Going back to 'Pittsburgh Stubborn', is it really any coincidence that the Defensive Ends for Cincinnati were able to bat down consecutive pass attempts in the last couple of plays, or did Green Bay's offense truly become that predictable?

-Still trying to patch up the front seven to make it more effective. Results are mixed. Nick Perry isn't showing too much, Datone Jones is progressing nicely, Mike Neal is starting to show some potential, albeit more as a linebacker, Brad Jones is looking like a mainstay inside and should be the ranger alongside AJ Hawk's 'Plug the Middle' destiny.

-When does the 3-4 work? When your athletes are interchangeable and versatile in their athleticism. Have players who are strong but lack speed or are fast but lack strength? Then you have issues. But it's kinda frustrating watching the Green Bay defense struggle with an offensive line while a bare-bones four man rush decimates ours.
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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-The 4th and Inches call is what I like to call 'Pittsburgh Stubborn'. I thought of that term as a play on TT's comment on McCarthy being 'Pittsburgh Tough' as a reason to select him as Head Coach. But really, nothing in the past FOUR YEARS has given any evidence that Green Bay's O-Line can win a must-win trench battle for short-yardage, especially when against a front four that largely dominated them all game. Their best performances overall were misdirecting the defense and allowing Franklin to cut back into the hole. They are a finesse group trying to play powerhouse.

EXACTLY! MM is trying too damn hard to be some POWER RUNNING team when they just aren't. It was even worse that they tried it with a back who isn't a physical runner like Lacy. That's what will stick out for me in that game today. 4th and inches and they go with that crap. MM should know better than that
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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As expected, Packers released Jeremy Ross today. You got 1 job to do and you cant' do it....you won't be employed for long
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Thank jebus.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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As expected, Packers released Jeremy Ross today. You got 1 job to do and you cant' do it....you won't be employed for long
I'm not so sure about the 'as expected' part. I'm somewhat surprised, not because he didn't deserve it, but they've just given guys so many 'second' chances in the past.

Gotta believe the next move is bringing Michael Hill up from the PS. Anyone know whether he's returned kicks before? I couldn't find anything.

Found my answer. According to Missouri Western's 2012 stats he had 0 PR and 0 KOR. So maybe he is not the answer.

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Old 09-23-2013, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Just to chime in on the 4th and inches play. What a heartbreaker. Both McCarthy and Franklin bear responsibility. Franklin has to know in that situation sacrifice the 1st for ball security. If he gets stopped he gets stopped but the turnover and 7 pt swing was huge.

I don't blame McCarthy for giving it to Franklin, you have to be able to pick up 4th and inches. I do question running a dive play with a smallish RB from a four-wide single back set in that situation. If you are going to be 'Pittsburgh Stubborn' at least give the guy a lead blocker.

So in summation Franklin's fault for fumbling but shame on McCarthy for putting him in a no win situation. I think if we ran that play 10 times maybe once would our OL get enough push to get the conversion.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Randall Cobb needs to be placed on return duties again. He's a difference maker there and we need to take advantage of that.
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