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Old 10-14-2013, 05:15 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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I don't want Spags as DC. He failed in New Orleans and Balitimore isn't setting the world on fire either.

I'm ok with him as a LB coach
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Seattle. He was Carroll's DC.

It's obvious now that the scheme wasn't what made that Seattle defense tick, it was the players (duh) but I still like the Xs and Os of that scheme.

Butler, the LB coach in Pittsburgh is another guy to consider. Ron Rivera himself is another guy.

Dennis Allen potentially. Pepper Johnson. I don't know of many college guys.
You could probably add Seattle LB Coach Ken Norton

I like Pepper Johnson, the guy knows 4-3 and 3-4, he knows all about the defensive front seven and has been learning under Belichek for some 20 years? With his ties to NYG and his SB rings (2 as player, 3 as coach), he will demand the respect of the players. Thats the kind of guy I want to turn things around.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Thinking about it, we are fairly well suited to move toa 3-4 if we wanted to.

But most likely a 2 gap system much like what the Pats and Steelers have used.

Look at

If we resign Joseph, plus Hankins at NT along with Jenkins, Kuhn and maybe Rogers.

Kiwi, JPP and Moore can play OLB. JPP would be much like how the Steelers have used Woodley, but he may be able to trim down a little and regain more of his quickness.

Beason, and Paysinger are a start inside

We may have to move Jaquain Williams to an in the box SS

It is definately doable. We could have options inside, there is good talent in the draft.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Our best defensive player is JPP. He doesn't fit well in a 3-4. Stick with 4-3.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Our best defensive player is JPP. He doesn't fit well in a 3-4. Stick with 4-3.
We can do just as well as converted DEs like Tamba Hali, Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orakpo, Clay Matthews, Aldon Smith, Lamar Woodley, Will Smith etc etc

If anything it allows him the space to use his speed and the physicality against TEs, RBs etc
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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I'd take spags back. At least I know he won't be bush league and not blitz. He will blitz and be aggressive which is something this defense needs. None of this , please God front 4 get home or else... And, when we do blitz no one gets home!
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I'd take spags back. At least I know he won't be bush league and not blitz. He will blitz and be aggressive which is something this defense needs. None of this , please God front 4 get home or else... And, when we do blitz no one gets home!
Spags' scheme relied on our DEs, quite frankly they are not getting the job done, so I can't see how you suddenly expect them to get a dominant pass rush happening based from the front 4
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I don't want Spags as DC. He failed in New Orleans and Balitimore isn't setting the world on fire either.

I'm ok with him as a LB coach
Again that NO team lost their entire leadership structure after bounty gate and wasn't that good to begin with, they got by on an unsustainably high turnover rate.

He's not even the coordinator of that mediocrely talented defense, so why would you hold that against him?
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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You could probably add Seattle LB Coach Ken Norton

I like Pepper Johnson, the guy knows 4-3 and 3-4, he knows all about the defensive front seven and has been learning under Belichek for some 20 years? With his ties to NYG and his SB rings (2 as player, 3 as coach), he will demand the respect of the players. Thats the kind of guy I want to turn things around.
Pepper blitzes about as often as Fewell does, I'd pass, all he'd do is focus on the secondary to try and institute the defensive version of our option routes. Big pass from me.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Spags' scheme relied on our DEs, quite frankly they are not getting the job done, so I can't see how you suddenly expect them to get a dominant pass rush happening based from the front 4
Because spags understood the value of getting pressure up the middle using a lot of twists and stunts on top of well designed blitzes. Plus our DE's aren't exactly in good shape right now, JPP is still getting into shape, Moore still hasn't gotten onto the field much, Kiwi's just meh, but that's fine if JPP gets back into form, Moore makes any impact or we draft Clowney/Barr.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Spags' scheme relied on our DEs, quite frankly they are not getting the job done, so I can't see how you suddenly expect them to get a dominant pass rush happening based from the front 4


It relied on disguised pressure . He overloaded A gap , used the front 4 and blitzed from the outside: Ross and Gibrik the Thrill the Wilson. I did game breakdowns there so I remember that scheme quite well.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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It relied on disguised pressure . He overloaded A gap , used the front 4 and blitzed from the outside: Ross and Gibrik the Thrill the Wilson. I did game breakdowns there so I remember that scheme quite well.
Why hasn't he been as successful elsewhere? He couldn't get a DC gig last year. That says something.

Do we have the players for Spags schemes?
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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Why hasn't he been as successful elsewhere? He couldn't get a DC gig last year. That says something.

Do we have the players for Spags schemes?
Because the rams where a mess with little talent when he got there and he wasn't ready to be the HC, and the saints had no leadership and very little talent on defense. We've got the secondary and with Clowney or Barr would have the pass rushers to do what spags did last time.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Why hasn't he been as successful elsewhere? He couldn't get a DC gig last year. That says something.

Do we have the players for Spags schemes?


Different team. Different players. Its not some religious law that because he had success with us he will have it on a other team. Sometimes with the players you have you can't do it. Also, if you have injuries its hard too. I don't follow the Saints so I don't know. I do know when he was here he showed qualities I like in a DC. We then had success with him here. That's why I wouldn't mind him back. He is the only coordinator that prospered and went on. Everyone else under TC got fired. That says something.

I don't care what he did for another team. With us he showed the elements that impressed me. Different 43 fronts, creative use of personnel and most importantly aggressive nature. Sign or him not, I just want the next D to exhibit those critical factors.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Pepper blitzes about as often as Fewell does, I'd pass, all he'd do is focus on the secondary to try and institute the defensive version of our option routes. Big pass from me.
People get caught up with the Blitz too much in my opinion

Seattle's defence for example doesn't blitz a lot, but relies on solid fundamental, aggressive and physical play. That's what we need.

Belichik knows about good defence, I wouldn't mind Pepper Johnson here.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Mike Zimmer doesn't blitz a lot either
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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Then I don't want Zimmer. I want a DC who will supplement our pass rush vis the front four with creative blitzes. Actually use mismatches and bring pressure to take adv. of opposing teams weakness.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I agree with Pete. The blitz isn't as important as your DC's gap philosophies.

I think a DC's ability to adjust to his talent and his gap strategy is what's important to me. You don't have to blitz all the time, but if I like your ability to disguise your coverages, use multiple gap strategies to attack OLs, and adjust to your talent and play predominantly man coverage you're cool with me.

That's what I want. Multigap predominantly man coverage defense that blitzes at least 35% of the time (preferably 40).

I love bear formations, I love A gap blitzes, I love overload blitzes, I love 5 man pressures, I love press man coverages downfield, I love a great coverage disguise, I love stunts and games up front to attack pass protections.

I basically love Rex Ryan.

The great DCs don't always blitz. They adjust. Zimmer doesn't blitz as much as he used to bc he has a great front 4. Rex doesn't blitz as much as he used to bc he doesn't have Revis anymore and he has a great front 4.

The gap strategy is what's important to me.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Gap discipline is important and needs to go hand in hand with your fronts. Take a 43 front. You need to maintain gap discipline no matter what front you run. For example, 43, 43 over, under, swim, wide, over swim, wink, sink and so on... You need to of course have gap discipline but you need to blitz equally especially in this passing era. You can't just sit back and just rely on your front 4.

Blitzing and well designed blitzes need to be implemented even just to act as a tendency breaker. We need tendency breakers on offense as well. We fail at this and by end of the seasons our offense slows down. Conversely, we tend to do well right after a BYE in terms of play design. I point to that excellent screen pass to Bradshaw against the Packers which nearly went for a TD. It was creative and well designed. We ran it once and off in storage that play went. I have seen similar type of tendency breakers off a BYE week, only to go back to what we do and struggle at it.

So what? Do we need to add flea flickers or trick plays? You do this as a tool to add tendency breakers. That's what creative blitzes do. You see, our offense is our blitzes are pathetic in their design and nearly ALWAYS get picked up. So tell me where is our tendency breakers coming from? At first it was the 3 safety look which worked. Show enough of it on tape, and you need something else. Where is that?

So I contend gap discipline is important but that's as elementary as saying you need excellent footwork in run blocking and pass blocking. Well no kidding. That isn't quite ground breaking stuff. If you lack gap discipline your defense falls apart. You can't run block, get the cutback lane, and your force guy can't do his job properly.

You need to do both at a high level. Tell me, how many fronts have you seen us use with Fewell? Why not use many of the 43 fronts? You see Fewell's only tendency breaker was his 3 safety look which has been seen now by everyone. He lacks anything else. No well designed blitzes. No creative use of personnel packages. He doesn't even use all the 43 fronts. His defense is a failure.

So again, give me a dc 34 or 43 defense who can utilize personnel, create blitz packages, and use all the various fronts for that defensive system. That's what's important. That's what I want to see.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say. I'm talking about gap strategy.

Gap discipline is important in any defense, regardless of what the gap strategy is.

What I want is a multigap strategy. Not just a 1 gap defense. Not just a 2 gap defense.

But a multigap defense. A defense that adjusts it's gap responsibilities per formation for each player.

That's what Seattle does and why they're so good. Bc they throw so many different gap strategies on you it becomes very difficult for an offense to block everyone up.

On one play your DTs are stacking, on another play they're penetrating and only accounting for 1 gap, on one play your LBs could stack, on another they could be responsible for just one gap etc.

That confusion makes it very difficult for OLs to block everyone up properly if you keep switching it up on them from down to down.

And with that confusion you'll create effective blitzes as well.

Defense is just like offense NYG, in the sense that the more predictable you become the easier it is to beat you.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say. I'm talking about gap strategy.

Gap discipline is important in any defense, regardless of what the gap strategy is.

What I want is a multigap strategy. Not just a 1 gap defense. Not just a 2 gap defense.

But a multigap defense. A defense that adjusts it's gap responsibilities per formation for each player.

That's what Seattle does and why they're so good. Bc they throw so many different gap strategies on you it becomes very difficult for an offense to block everyone up.

On one play your DTs are stacking, on another play they're penetrating and only accounting for 1 gap, on one play your LBs could stack, on another they could be responsible for just one gap etc.

That confusion makes it very difficult for OLs to block everyone up properly if you keep switching it up on them from down to down.

And with that confusion you'll create effective blitzes as well.

Defense is just like offense NYG, in the sense that the more predictable you become the easier it is to beat you.



I know what you mean. You can accomplish it by teaching your front to squeeze or not up front you can control the different gaps. Again, it comes down to what you're teaching and what front you are going to use as a tendency breaker.

As a TE coach, I had to help identify the front and where the SAM was lined up over the TE. I needed to know this so I can discuss whether we need to arc release the TE to block the 2nd level or block the Sam off the line due to the front being played.

I would see the front trying all different things to control their various gaps. You can control a gap, and then disengage when you locate the ball and make a play. You can control a gap, and control the OL and shove him in the other gap, thus controlling 2 gaps. This causes the RB, if it's a run to bounce it out, while you scrap, and rally to make a play.

So I am well aware of what you mean. A good defense like I said will use it all. That's where the creativity of the DC comes into play.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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I know what you mean. You can accomplish it by teaching your front to squeeze or not up front you can control the different gaps. Again, it comes down to what you're teaching and what front you are going to use as a tendency breaker.

As a TE coach, I had to help identify the front and where the SAM was lined up over the TE. I needed to know this so I can discuss whether we need to arc release the TE to block the 2nd level or block the Sam off the line due to the front being played.

I would see the front trying all different things to control their various gaps. You can control a gap, and then disengage when you locate the ball and make a play. You can control a gap, and control the OL and shove him in the other gap, thus controlling 2 gaps. This causes the RB, if it's a run to bounce it out, while you scrap, and rally to make a play.

So I am well aware of what you mean. A good defense like I said will use it all. That's where the creativity of the DC comes into play.
Yeah, and that's why I think while we all have our preferences on defense, we should also note that the scheme isn't necessarily as important as the Coach's individual ability to adjust. That really is the key.

Bc whether you run a pressure based defense or a coverage based defense, it really doesn't matter if you keep doing the same thing over and over. You'll get figured out. The good DCs do both and know when to use one over the other.

So the style isn't as important as the DC's ability to switch it up.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, and that's why I think while we all have our preferences on defense, we should also note that the scheme isn't necessarily as important as the Coach's individual ability to adjust. That really is the key.

Bc whether you run a pressure based defense or a coverage based defense, it really doesn't matter if you keep doing the same thing over and over. You'll get figured out. The good DCs do both and know when to use one over the other.

So the style isn't as important as the DC's ability to switch it up.
Coach's ability to adjust can only happen if he has a solid group of position coaches in the boothe who can give him accurate information as the game is unfolding. People toss the term in game adjust, and this coordinator doesn't adjust well. Guess what though? As an offensive coach and someone in the booth, you need to give the OC on the sideline accurate information so that he knows what to do. If the coaches upstairs aren't good at giving this information, your coordinator can't adjust. If they are too slow, and need to rely this information, then at half time is the only time to communicate this information.

By then you could be down 3 TDs. That's when fans say, man this coordinator stinks at adjusting in game. That's not on the coordinator as much as the fools giving him the information.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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People get caught up with the Blitz too much in my opinion

Seattle's defence for example doesn't blitz a lot, but relies on solid fundamental, aggressive and physical play. That's what we need.

Belichik knows about good defence, I wouldn't mind Pepper Johnson here.
Seattle don't blitz because they have the best secondary the NFL has seen this century. Most teams don't have earl Thomas letting Sherman do his thing.

And yes zimmer does, he has a very aggressive defense.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Coach's ability to adjust can only happen if he has a solid group of position coaches in the boothe who can give him accurate information as the game is unfolding. People toss the term in game adjust, and this coordinator doesn't adjust well. Guess what though? As an offensive coach and someone in the booth, you need to give the OC on the sideline accurate information so that he knows what to do. If the coaches upstairs aren't good at giving this information, your coordinator can't adjust. If they are too slow, and need to rely this information, then at half time is the only time to communicate this information.

By then you could be down 3 TDs. That's when fans say, man this coordinator stinks at adjusting in game. That's not on the coordinator as much as the fools giving him the information.
Isn't that where putting together a good call sheet matters though?

The better you prepare for scenarios the better your call sheet can be no? That way if your script is wetting the bed you better plays you can call to get out of a bad situation.

I honestly think the script is overrated. That's just me. So I'm gonna stick to my script just to see what your tendencies are, but I'm sacrificing roughly 1 half of play just to figure that out? I rather just try to score and use situational playcalling from the 1st quarter and not care about your own tendencies.
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