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Old 10-15-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
twiz
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Originally Posted by Robcards View Post
Not sure how easy it will be to trade up to the top 5 this year. The top of the draft is one of the strongest in recent years. Doubt it would cost as much as the Redskins paid to get RG3, but it will certainly be close to that. Not sure that's the right move for them. Best case scenario for the Browns QB search is losing out this year lol.
It is, 100%, the right move. YOU MUST GET A TRUE FRANCHISE QB IN THIS DRAFT! And to me, that's only three guys: Bridgewater (who you're not getting), Mariota and Hundley. The biggest nightmare is if both Mariota and Hundley do not declare, because you instantly lose. You're stuck taking Boyd (who I don't think fits), Mettenberg or McCarron in the first because you'll be forced to reach on them. A starting QB, as we've seen in the first 6 weeks, makes all the difference with this team.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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It is, 100%, the right move. YOU MUST GET A TRUE FRANCHISE QB IN THIS DRAFT! And to me, that's only three guys: Bridgewater (who you're not getting), Mariota and Hundley. The biggest nightmare is if both Mariota and Hundley do not declare, because you instantly lose. You're stuck taking Boyd (who I don't think fits), Mettenberg or McCarron in the first because you'll be forced to reach on them. A starting QB, as we've seen in the first 6 weeks, makes all the difference with this team.
Everyone said the same thing when the browns didn't give up 4 1sts to get RG3. I disagree with that logic completely. There's no guarantee the QB will be worth it and what if one of the future 1sts you gave up would have been the next Andrew luck?
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Well here's someone who clearly hasn't watched much of Miami. Patterson has played decent at CB until getting hurt, and Nolan Carroll has done a respectable job in his place. On top of that, we just drafted 2 corners in this past drafts 2nd and 3rd rounds.

OL please
Carroll is a free agent next year as well. So that leaves Patterson, Taylor, and Davis as the starting corners for 2014. Don't really see how that makes CB an unlikely 1st round pick for the Dolphins. If the Dolphins traded up for Jordan instead of Lane Johnson my guess is that they don't value o-line that much.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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I'd have no problem with the Jets going guard. That said, and this is a curiosity question not me calling you out, unless the coaching staff changes do you think they're going to be committed to running the ball? Mornhinweg seems to have no real interest in being committed to the run, and that's with a rookie QB.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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I'd have no problem with the Jets going guard. That said, and this is a curiosity question not me calling you out, unless the coaching staff changes do you think they're going to be committed to running the ball? Mornhinweg seems to have no real interest in being committed to the run, and that's with a rookie QB.
Mornhinweg was the OC this year and they took a guard a bit higher than his projection, I wouldn't be thrilled with a pick like that as a jets fan myself, but I think its a strong possibility. Also keep in mind Arians is a pass happy coach and the cardinals took a guard 7th overall, so you can't read too much into those things.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Mornhinweg was the OC this year and they took a guard a bit higher than his projection, I wouldn't be thrilled with a pick like that as a jets fan myself, but I think its a strong possibility. Also keep in mind Arians is a pass happy coach and the cardinals took a guard 7th overall, so you can't read too much into those things.
Not questioning the guard pick, I'm a big fan of building in the trenches and with the rookie wage scale the way it is I think it's fine to draft a guard mid-first if they think he's going to be a stud. Obviously it'll be a need going forward too. Purely asking about that one piece of your commentary, I'd imagine they'll be building to be a pass first team. Still think you can take a guard and do that, but I'm not sure they're committed to the run any more.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Not questioning the guard pick, I'm a big fan of building in the trenches and with the rookie wage scale the way it is I think it's fine to draft a guard mid-first if they think he's going to be a stud. Obviously it'll be a need going forward too. Purely asking about that one piece of your commentary, I'd imagine they'll be building to be a pass first team. Still think you can take a guard and do that, but I'm not sure they're committed to the run any more.
Valid point but they should know Geno's limitations. I don't see the Jets being successful with a 40 pass a game strategy any time soon.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Ok, I need to vent about this.

I've seen too many mocks with Manziel going to Cleveland. I have every problem with this you could possibly have. We already know what a nightmare he is off the field. On the field, he's going to get into a lot of trouble. He takes way too many chances, he won't be able to keep the play alive as long as he does in college, there are QB's with better arm strength (and those are the guys this staff likes), size (again, something this staff prefers), and I don't even want to imagine the stress a coaching staff would go through managing this kid. He needs to do a TON of growing up both on and off the field before I'd want him even on the practice squad. Heck his own dad has admitted he has temper issues to go along with the poor choices he makes. With where he's at now, he might have success for a season, then get stomped. Also, speaking of character concerns, people have tried to point to Lombardi's love of Ryan Mallett as an excuse to send Manziel to Cleveland. Well now hold on a second, you mean the same guy that destroyed Cleveland for taking a chance on Josh Gordon, and sent away Richardson for his attitude? Also, Mallett and Manziel aren't even comparable on the field, so you can't possibly use that excuse! STOP FORCING HIM ON CLEVELAND AND STICKING US WITH ANOTHER CRAP QB!! I'D RATHER HOPE AND PRAY HOYER COMES BACK HEALTHY THAN GET STUCK WITH MANZIEL!!

/VENT

... I'm better now.
Bottom line is he's ridiculously talented. His arm strength is good-certainly better then Hoyer/Campbell. He'll have no problem buying time in the pros. He's accurate from different arm positions and on the run. He's tough as ****. I think he's intuitive enough to play in any system. If Hoyer is healthy the Browns would be in a unique position to be able to sit him and iron out his technique and preparation.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Bottom line is he's ridiculously talented. His arm strength is good-certainly better then Hoyer/Campbell. He'll have no problem buying time in the pros. He's accurate from different arm positions and on the run. He's tough as ****. I think he's intuitive enough to play in any system. If Hoyer is healthy the Browns would be in a unique position to be able to sit him and iron out his technique and preparation.
He can be a talented guy, that's great. But I have problems:

1. Arm strength. Chud and Turner have a history of favoring big arms, and there are better available this year.

2. Decision making. Many of his scrambles and throws are picks/long sacks/receiver deaths in the NFL.

3. Attitude. Not even going back into this one.

His mobility is the lone reason I could see the Browns having interest. But the passing comes first, as we've seen how they really want to air the ball out this season, and I think Manziel is behind here compared to several other QB's, including ones currently ranked in the second or third. I don't even think his accuracy is first round grade. He just makes so many decisions that will get receivers and/or himself killed at the next level and cause turnovers. I see him pretty much going the way of Tebow/V. Young. He'll have a season of success, everyone will start saying, "I told you so!" to me, then he'll tailspin and they won't want him around due to a lack of development and his horrid attitude.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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Everyone said the same thing when the browns didn't give up 4 1sts to get RG3. I disagree with that logic completely. There's no guarantee the QB will be worth it and what if one of the future 1sts you gave up would have been the next Andrew luck?
Sure there's no guarantee he's going to be great. But if you don't move up, you're guaranteed to be screwed. You target your guy, you go get your guy. Now, if for some reason they grade one of the later QB's as their guy before the top three, that's great, more power to them. But you NEED a franchise QB, don't let it slip when you have ammunition to move up.

Besides, you're acting as if that extra first and third you have will hit. How do you know those will? You're looking at quantity over quality at this point.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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Sure there's no guarantee he's going to be great. But if you don't move up, you're guaranteed to be screwed. You target your guy, you go get your guy. Now, if for some reason they grade one of the later QB's as their guy before the top three, that's great, more power to them. But you NEED a franchise QB, don't let it slip when you have ammunition to move up.

Besides, you're acting as if that extra first and third you have will hit. How do you know those will? You're looking at quantity over quality at this point.
Not for nothing but the Browns are a better team than the Redskins right now, so this whole 'if you don't move up to get the QB you're screwed' logic is nonsense. And that's with their 2 1st round picks in that year being busts. QB is the most important position on the team, but it's far from everything man. The Browns have enough talent on defense, o-line, tight end and receiver to build on and win without sacrificing future 1sts to get a top 5 QB.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:07 AM    (permalink
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He can be a talented guy, that's great. But I have problems:

1. Arm strength. Chud and Turner have a history of favoring big arms, and there are better available this year.


2. Decision making. Many of his scrambles and throws are picks/long sacks/receiver deaths in the NFL.

3. Attitude. Not even going back into this one.

His mobility is the lone reason I could see the Browns having interest. But the passing comes first, as we've seen how they really want to air the ball out this season, and I think Manziel is behind here compared to several other QB's, including ones currently ranked in the second or third. I don't even think his accuracy is first round grade. He just makes so many decisions that will get receivers and/or himself killed at the next level and cause turnovers. I see him pretty much going the way of Tebow/V. Young. He'll have a season of success, everyone will start saying, "I told you so!" to me, then he'll tailspin and they won't want him around due to a lack of development and his horrid attitude.
Just wanted to point out that the QB with the weakest arm on the team is the one that was most successful with their offense. I don't think they'll rule out a QB just because he doesn't have a cannon.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Just wanted to point out that the QB with the weakest arm on the team is the one that was most successful with their offense. I don't think they'll rule out a QB just because he doesn't have a cannon.
I'm saying it's their preference. These are coaches that like big arm guys who can stretch the field. To me it's a large reason why Weeden hasn't been benched for Campbell, because, while both are awful, Weeden still fits the QB they want more. They won't rule him out, however, they'll prefer someone else more. Also, if you're bringing Hoyer back (I expect them to), but he doesn't fit your preferences, why go after a second QB who goes against that as well?
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Not for nothing but the Browns are a better team than the Redskins right now, so this whole 'if you don't move up to get the QB you're screwed' logic is nonsense. And that's with their 2 1st round picks in that year being busts. QB is the most important position on the team, but it's far from everything man. The Browns have enough talent on defense, o-line, tight end and receiver to build on and win without sacrificing future 1sts to get a top 5 QB.

Now, hold on a second. You just said they have lots of talent everywhere BUT QB (and RB if we're being picky). So why NOT move up?
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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Now, hold on a second. You just said they have lots of talent everywhere BUT QB (and RB if we're being picky). So why NOT move up?
Again. Easier said than done. It'll probably cost them as much as it cost the redskins to get rg3 in 2012. If you want a new stud QB you should be rooting for the browns to lose out.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Again. Easier said than done. It'll probably cost them as much as it cost the redskins to get rg3 in 2012. If you want a new stud QB you should be rooting for the browns to lose out.
If they think Mariota or Hundley are that guy, they'll make that trade, and I won't be against it.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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If they think Mariota or Hundley are that guy, they'll make that trade, and I won't be against it.
I could see a similar stalemate like the 2012 draft where the top 5 pick team wants both of the Browns 1st rounders and the Browns refusing to do it. We'll see though, will be an interesting first round of Hundley and Mariota both declare.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Players who get season-ending injuries in their contract years are very unlikely to be re-signed.
Its not season ending injury tho. He will be back in two weeks and trust Oakland is learning how important he is to this team right now. I think it's border line stupid to say Oakland wont bring him back.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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Its not season ending injury tho. He will be back in two weeks and trust Oakland is learning how important he is to this team right now. I think it's border line stupid to say Oakland wont bring him back.
Borderline stupid? Seriously, how many guys who suffer serious injuries in their contract year get re-signed before the draft by their current team? It's getting a little old having this same debate every year. Last year Bears fans were telling me guard wasn't a possible 1st round selection because they would re-sign Lance Louis.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
jared3
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Tampa Bay Buccaneers haven't won a game yet but have the 5th pick in the draft? Try again. They would at the very least get the 2nd overall pick.

Carolina Panthers will be at least picking around pick 17 ish.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:03 PM    (permalink
Robcards
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Tampa Bay Buccaneers haven't won a game yet but have the 5th pick in the draft? Try again. They would at the very least get the 2nd overall pick.

Carolina Panthers will be at least picking around pick 17 ish.
This was made 2 weeks ago, to be fair. The Bucs were only 0-5 at the time and Doug Martin and Mike Williams weren't injured. Thought they had 4 winnable games rest of the schedule. My next mock will reflect the developments since I made this.

Also, are you really going to get on my case for having the Panthers picking 13th (again, 2 weeks ago) when you think they'll be picking 17th? Come on, man.
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