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Old 11-13-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Originally Posted by Witten4HOF View Post
How do you guys feel about Les Miles ?


:P

In all seriousness if I were drawing up a list of candidates to take over for Garrett. That would mean we didn't make the playoffs this year and the team soured on him as a coach.

1. Ideally my first choice would be Lovie Smith. First he has Texas roots. He's a defensive guru (my favorite type of HC), and his ideal defense meshes VERY well with our personnel. We already have the press corners that excel in his press-and-bail coverages. We have an elite DE with Ware. He could convince his former star Melton to join us while letting Hatcher walk. Bonus? We keep Marinelli who would take up the DC spot. Honestly I think Garrett has strayed from his base scheme (Air Coryell) and getting another discipline from that line would streamline the process of overhauling the offense. *Note* Air Coryell is a VERTICAL passing scheme. Attack the seams. Hard. Oh and it's built for pass catching TEs in which we have three.

Lovie (HC) - Martz (OC) - Marinelli (DC)


2. Gruden - I think he is vastly overrated, way too demanding of the spotlight, and a vast departure from Garrett. Perfect fit for Dallas then :P :). A dominating personality that reporters will take the mic to rather than looking for the owner. Garrett is a reserved, defensive, and well measured press conference guy which doesn't jive in the slightest with Jerry. Gruden's offense is West Coast based which scares the bejesus out of me. Romo is better IMHO at driving the ball deep compared to rhythmically hitting 5-10 yard passes. If he swallows his playbook and introduces someone more adept at vertical passing then I could understand but it's an offensive mis-match. Ideally you'd target Martz but I'm going to assume that isn't possible so that it's not the same coordinators. Next target is good ol Norv Turner whom we'll say is available for hiring and willing to work in tandem with Gruden to develop a "vertical based passing scheme with WC influences". Defensively I'd love to keep Marinelli but good luck. Already rumored he wants to follow Lovie if he lands a HC position. Works well for no "no copies idea" so we'll look at another former Gruden co-worker to fill in. I'm speaking of former head coach Raheem Morris. I'm envisioning any potential trouble in Tampa is under the bridge as I never read any falling out.

Chucky (HC), OC (Turner), DC (Morris)

3. My least favorite option (college route) would be targeting a local coach. Kevin Sumlin. Now I like Sumlin at a lot and he's done an excellent job but I think the team needs a veteran coach not a first-timer. The spread is certainly the evolving trend and Sumlin has gotten the best out of every team he has coached but I'm not sure he would have enough pull to bring in the big coordinators into the building. I can certainly see Jerry pulling this out of the bag though envisioning his previous successes in the 90s.

Sumlin (HC), OC (McKinney), DC (Ken Norton, Jr.)
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Witten4HOF View Post
How do you guys feel about Les Miles ?
The Mad Hatter has that nickname for a reason... but I really don't have a strong opinion either way with him. To me the HC doesn't have to be an X's and O's guy. He just has to "coach".

The OC and DC are critical as far as knowing what players to bring in according to scheme. Would that mean NFL retread, Cam Cameron following him here? Guess I'd have mixed feelings about him as well.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
Gribble
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A little out of left field, but what would you all think of Art Briles from Baylor? (who just got a 10 year contract...)
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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A little out of left field, but what would you all think of Art Briles from Baylor? (who just got a 10 year contract...)
I like him more than Sumlin. He's one of the top college coaches that I like. I see them churning out NFL talent annually. That impresses me with his player development skills. ...and his offense is HIGH powered. I don't know if it would work in the NFL but doesn't that seem to be the case these days?
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:13 AM    (permalink
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#1 on my HC list would be Mike Zimmer, I think he has a great balance of fire and communication skills. He was always one of my favorite coaches on the staff and is well respected throughout the league. The style of play he likes on defense fits our personnel and would allow us to keep the 4-3 guys like Selvie/Hayden that have done well this year. I could even see the possibility of him finding a way to retain Marinelli, which would be a slam dunk.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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#1 on my HC list would be Mike Zimmer, I think he has a great balance of fire and communication skills. He was always one of my favorite coaches on the staff and is well respected throughout the league. The style of play he likes on defense fits our personnel and would allow us to keep the 4-3 guys like Selvie/Hayden that have done well this year. I could even see the possibility of him finding a way to retain Marinelli, which would be a slam dunk.
My issue with Zimmer is his lack of HC experience. We already had that with Garrett and it stinks. The arguing point to that would point to Sean Payton of course. I just don't know. I think he's a hell of a DC and teacher though. Does he have the fire in his belly like a Schwartz or Harbaugh? I see him more of a Garrett type in terms of personality.

Fun talking about all the options though! I like it!
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Jerrah got his stadium, is making loads of money, I don't think he goes for any coach that'll take his spotlight away from him. So unless we go 5-11, Gruden and any hotshot college coach is out.

I could see the Lovie hire, as he fits with Marinelli, addresses the defense and has the NFL experience. Plus he can handle the star mentality our players get after the least bit of success.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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#1 on my HC list would be Mike Zimmer, I think he has a great balance of fire and communication skills. He was always one of my favorite coaches on the staff and is well respected throughout the league. The style of play he likes on defense fits our personnel and would allow us to keep the 4-3 guys like Selvie/Hayden that have done well this year. I could even see the possibility of him finding a way to retain Marinelli, which would be a slam dunk.
Zimmer seems to be one of those guys that NFL executives feel is just not suited to be a head coach. Whatever the reason, I am not sure but his name is never a hot candidate for a top gig and he's been a coordinator in the league for 14 years so he's paid his dues there.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Jerrah got his stadium, is making loads of money, I don't think he goes for any coach that'll take his spotlight away from him. So unless we go 5-11, Gruden and any hotshot college coach is out.

I could see the Lovie hire, as he fits with Marinelli, addresses the defense and has the NFL experience. Plus he can handle the star mentality our players get after the least bit of success.
Garrett's done a few things well too. He's done a nice job acquiring talent and changing the culture of the team. Remember those Wade Phillips years? Ick.

Lovie didn't exactly demand the spotlight in Chicago and he has experience working with a terrible GM (Jerry Angelo). He's definitely my favorite if we are to look another direction.

I think Garrett is safe as long as the team remains competitive. I think Callahan's seat is stupidly hot. Kiffin at least has the excuse that we have the most defensive lineman played in a season in the last 20 years (17 turning to 18 if new signing Corvey Irvin sees the field).



Also for the Zimmer talk - he's reportedly a TERRIBLE interview and turns GMs off once they are in the same room. Given how badly teams want to win the guy has to be some sort of social pariah. :/ I do miss him though his defenses were great.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I love Zimmer. I was a big fan of his when he was here too. I wonder if Jerry would think that he could bully him into whatever decisions he wants. Remember the Campo years? Well those were pretty much the years that Jerrah straight up ran the team with Campo as his puppet, and Zimmer was the DC during that time. He was damn good as a DC here before the force to the 3-4, but I would worry about Jerry even more if Zimmer was around. I think that he would be a big factor into making Claiborne the star we've been waiting for. Zimmer has a way with getting the best out of DBs.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Garrett's done a few things well too. He's done a nice job acquiring talent and changing the culture of the team. Remember those Wade Phillips years? Ick.

Lovie didn't exactly demand the spotlight in Chicago and he has experience working with a terrible GM (Jerry Angelo). He's definitely my favorite if we are to look another direction.

I think Garrett is safe as long as the team remains competitive. I think Callahan's seat is stupidly hot. Kiffin at least has the excuse that we have the most defensive lineman played in a season in the last 20 years (17 turning to 18 if new signing Corvey Irvin sees the field).



Also for the Zimmer talk - he's reportedly a TERRIBLE interview and turns GMs off once they are in the same room. Given how badly teams want to win the guy has to be some sort of social pariah. :/ I do miss him though his defenses were great.
Garrett is 21-21. Wade was 34-22 with a playoff win. What culture change? Not saying Wade was a good coach or anything but Garrett has been a bigger disappointment. Garretts seat should be red hot right now IMO.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Jerrah got his stadium, is making loads of money, I don't think he goes for any coach that'll take his spotlight away from him. So unless we go 5-11, Gruden and any hotshot college coach is out.

I could see the Lovie hire, as he fits with Marinelli, addresses the defense and has the NFL experience. Plus he can handle the star mentality our players get after the least bit of success.
Nothing makes more money and more spotlight for Jerry than winning. I can't fault the guy for putting his ego ahead of winning. He did hire Parcells.
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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So are we really saying that Jerry doesn't want/care to win a super bowl?
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Garrett is 21-21. Wade was 34-22 with a playoff win. What culture change? Not saying Wade was a good coach or anything but Garrett has been a bigger disappointment. Garretts seat should be red hot right now IMO.
Garrett inherited a MUCH worse team than Wade. C'mon can you please analyse the situation in its entirety rather than cherry picking? There is exactly ONE drafted player from Wade's era on the team. One (Anthony Spencer). Now I'm definitely not a BP champion but at least we have a number of quality players still from him: Ware, Hatcher, Ratliff (Cut), and Witten. There is little doubt that Wade's tenure with Dallas set us back immensely.

I don't want to cause any heart problems so do not click on the spoiler unless you want to see the 2009 draft class:



Wade was given a strong core and gradually ruined the roster. Firmly entrenched a self-entitled culture. Garrett was given a roster with terrible depth that he has re-built and established "team" culture. Listen to interviews with players; instead of embracing the preseason favorites title they toss it aside and talk about the hard work the team needs to put in and improve

After all with the talent Garrett has now put together the expectation around here is we MUST be in the playoffs and are talented enough to compete for the SB right? That speaks volumes of the talent acquisition over the last few years.



That being said I absolutely agree Garrett hasn't done enough. I think he'll keep his job no matter what judging by all the continuity talk in the preseason HOWEVER I personally would kick him to the curb if he doesn't get us into the playoffs.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Garrett inherited a MUCH worse team than Wade. C'mon can you please analyse the situation in its entirety rather than cherry picking? There is exactly ONE drafted player from Wade's era on the team. One (Anthony Spencer). Now I'm definitely not a BP champion but at least we have a number of quality players still from him: Ware, Hatcher, Ratliff (Cut), and Witten. There is little doubt that Wade's tenure with Dallas set us back immensely.

I don't want to cause any heart problems so do not click on the spoiler unless you want to see the 2009 draft class:



Wade was given a strong core and gradually ruined the roster. Firmly entrenched a self-entitled culture. Garrett was given a roster with terrible depth that he has re-built and established "team" culture. Listen to interviews with players; instead of embracing the preseason favorites title they toss it aside and talk about the hard work the team needs to put in and improve

After all with the talent Garrett has now put together the expectation around here is we MUST be in the playoffs and are talented enough to compete for the SB right? That speaks volumes of the talent acquisition over the last few years.



That being said I absolutely agree Garrett hasn't done enough. I think he'll keep his job no matter what judging by all the continuity talk in the preseason HOWEVER I personally would kick him to the curb if he doesn't get us into the playoffs.
Fair enough. Just saying, Garrett has been a big disappointment.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. Just saying, Garrett has been a big disappointment.
Absolutely but not for wins and losses. With the offensive personnel he has the offense should be consistently good. It isn't. Our play-calling is atrocious and honestly worse than last year. We have a QB suited for vertical passing and have hamstrung him by asking him to do what, IMHO, is his weakest ability (West Coast). You don't want to ask Romo to throw a bunch of comebacks, curls, or hitches. Callahan calls the game as if Rich Gannon is his QB rather than Tony Romo.

Defensively you can't really hammer on this team. 17 different starting lineman isn't just a statistical outlier it's an NFL record and we are just past the halfway mark. Now once again I feel as if Kiffin is handicapping the team a bit by not allowing our press corners to press. That being said he is doing it to protect our TERRIBLE backup safeties. Ugh I feel for the guy I really do. If he presses and the likes of Jeff Heath fail to take away the deep half we get roasted on bombs. If he doesn't press teams will eat the cushion and dink-and-dunk us to death.

I understand a major complaint of Garrett is his lack of major emotion. Keep in mind that's a total media front. He has a passion for the game but isn't going to pander to the media to show it.



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One quote: “The best (expletive) football teams I’ve been on, the quarterback held them accountable, the middle linebacker held them accountable, the pass rusher held them accountable, the tight end held them accountable. This is how we do stuff. This is the Cowboys. We’re trying to do something.”
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“As a leader in any organization (you have to) provide perspective, inspiration and motivation and create a vision for your football team and do everything you can to get the right people to help you accomplish that vision,” Garrett said. “You have to give a path and a road map, but you also have to give some inspiration, you have to give some motivation to get out there each and every day to do the things they need to accomplish what that goal or vision is.”

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The popular perception of Jason Garrett is that he is robotic, without personality because of how he often presents himself in the public through the media.

He is careful with his words so as to not give away secrets, whether big or small, so as to not hammer a player, whether he needs it or not.
If you think players that screw up in games are not being chastised in private you are out of your mind. Garrett doesn't need to publicly call them out as it serves no one but the fans. Garrett the press conference holder is a cold and calculated machine but he's a disciplinarian as described more than a few people.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Garrett inherited a MUCH worse team than Wade. C'mon can you please analyse the situation in its entirety rather than cherry picking? There is exactly ONE drafted player from Wade's era on the team. One (Anthony Spencer). Now I'm definitely not a BP champion but at least we have a number of quality players still from him: Ware, Hatcher, Ratliff (Cut), and Witten. There is little doubt that Wade's tenure with Dallas set us back immensely.

I don't want to cause any heart problems so do not click on the spoiler unless you want to see the 2009 draft class:



Wade was given a strong core and gradually ruined the roster. Firmly entrenched a self-entitled culture. Garrett was given a roster with terrible depth that he has re-built and established "team" culture. Listen to interviews with players; instead of embracing the preseason favorites title they toss it aside and talk about the hard work the team needs to put in and improve

After all with the talent Garrett has now put together the expectation around here is we MUST be in the playoffs and are talented enough to compete for the SB right? That speaks volumes of the talent acquisition over the last few years.



That being said I absolutely agree Garrett hasn't done enough. I think he'll keep his job no matter what judging by all the continuity talk in the preseason HOWEVER I personally would kick him to the curb if he doesn't get us into the playoffs.
The thing with Wade that was unlike Garrett and Parcells before him was that he really was a backseat HC. I don't think he liked getting involved in the draft and I don't think he was a real expert at evaluating talent, so I don't think he really fought for a say.

That draft in particular was Tom Ciskowski's work. Somebody correct me if you think I'm wrong.

Garrett fixed the personnel culture, but he just went the opposite direction in terms of winning.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:24 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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The thing with Wade that was unlike Garrett and Parcells before him was that he really was a backseat HC. I don't think he liked getting involved in the draft and I don't think he was a real expert at evaluating talent, so I don't think he really fought for a say.

That draft in particular was Tom Ciskowski's work. Somebody correct me if you think I'm wrong.

Garrett fixed the personnel culture, but he just went the opposite direction in terms of winning.
Agreed on him being a backseat HC. Although Wade championed a few of those picks. Brandon Williams he was very happy to say that was his pick in the war room. He certainly had less influence in the room than BP/Garrett in their respective war rooms.

Unfortunately for Garrett the last part is true as well. He may end up setting the table for another coach to come in and win with his foundation.

An interesting thought I've been coming back to. Game management has been the weak point for Garrett's tenure while the majority of the other aspects range from neutral to very positive. Could Jason Garrett actually be a great GM as opposed to a solid coach? I know it has a zero percent chance of actually happening, both JJ relinquishing the role and a young HC with potential moving to the front office, but it was an interesting thought.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Agreed on him being a backseat HC. Although Wade championed a few of those picks. Brandon Williams he was very happy to say that was his pick in the war room. He certainly had less influence in the room than BP/Garrett in their respective war rooms.

Unfortunately for Garrett the last part is true as well. He may end up setting the table for another coach to come in and win with his foundation.

An interesting thought I've been coming back to. Game management has been the weak point for Garrett's tenure while the majority of the other aspects range from neutral to very positive. Could Jason Garrett actually be a great GM as opposed to a solid coach? I know it has a zero percent chance of actually happening, both JJ relinquishing the role and a young HC with potential moving to the front office, but it was an interesting thought.
Yeah, the thought has also crossed my mind. I think he would be a very good GM. I don't see Jerry making him that without also wearing the HC hat though. I also don't think Garrett would like being a GM over a coach either.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Garrett as a GM somewhere makes sense. I think he's got a good amount of control over who he wants to add to the team, but his problem as that the results aren't showing for him. When I heard that speech at the beginning of training camp I saw why Jerry likes the guy a lot. It's easy to see how he can get guys motivated. The problem is that he can't win close games at a high enough rate. Mediocrity is mediocrity no matter how you slice it. If he ends up at another 8-8 season regardless of missing the playoffs or not it would make a hard case to think that he would improve here. It's nice that he can build a good team, but he's having problems getting them anywhere relevant.

On the bright side for Garrett he could always go HC somewhere else like Jacksonville where 8-8 would be a freaking godsend. I guess that's why I don't hate Jerrah too much. Unlike some owners he'd sell out to win, so something like Jacksonville or the 90's Bengals wouldn't happen with him. Of course it's his fault for the continual mediocre teams since Jimmy left, so it's a weird, loathable balance with the guy. It's such torture being a Cowboys fan.
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Watching Indy run the ball yesterday opened my eyes. They used 3 of their tackles on the LOS and it was working great. Made me think of us using Tyron, Free and Parnell together, but realizing Garrett does not think out of the box. :(
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Watching Indy run the ball yesterday opened my eyes. They used 3 of their tackles on the LOS and it was working great. Made me think of us using Tyron, Free and Parnell together, but realizing Garrett does not think out of the box. :(
Bleh no thanks on that. Indy has been terrible running the ball this year. They are very much a 2-3 yards and a cloud of dirt style running offense. Adding Parnell means subtracting a TE or WR and lets teams know 100% we are running the ball.

We are bad enough running the ball when the safeties aren't coming up to the line can you imagine how bad Murray would be with 8 guys in the box :|
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Bleh no thanks on that. Indy has been terrible running the ball this year. They are very much a 2-3 yards and a cloud of dirt style running offense. Adding Parnell means subtracting a TE or WR and lets teams know 100% we are running the ball.

We are bad enough running the ball when the safeties aren't coming up to the line can you imagine how bad Murray would be with 8 guys in the box :|
Okaayyyyy then.... :)

Can you blame me for wanting more out of our run game? :(
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Okaayyyyy then.... :)

Can you blame me for wanting more out of our run game? :(
Not at all. We are a terrible running team. :/
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Not at all. We are a terrible running team. :/
How about we draft some Guards?
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