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Old 11-24-2013, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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The one question I have about Williams is why it took him so long to break out??

RBs usually show much earlier in their careers if they're talented.

You rarely see a RB who's an overnight sensation as a SENIOR.
Much of his game no doubt is the result of pressing iron.

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Old 11-24-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
The one question I have about Williams is why it took him so long to break out??

RBs usually show much earlier in their careers if they're talented.

You rarely see a RB who's an overnight sensation as a SENIOR.
Much of his game no doubt is the result of pressing iron.

It's hard to evaluate players from the Spaz era. There was just so much perpetual fail. If not for Kuechly every season would have looked like last season. Year 1 and part of another BC had Montel Harris, and he was never quite healthy early in his career.
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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I watched a few of his games last night. I think he might be faster than he looks; he's just a really smooth runner and doesn't go East-West at all; he just charges forward through his lanes and basically dares people to try and tackle him. He doesn't really juke much or anything, but what he's good at doing is taking one step to alter his angle so that a tackler can't square up on him, and if a tackler only lands a glancing blow, they simply bounce off. This has got to be one of the hardest running backs to tackle I've watched in quite awhile. Arm tackles do not work. He's so strong, and has good balance, too. I love that he runs somebody over in every game.

But his ball security really concerns me. In today's NFL, he looks like a closer; he looks like a player you'd want to give it to in order to finish out a game, and you cannot do that with a player who puts the ball on the ground as much as he does. So that's the huge red flag I see with him. Like Scott said, he looks pretty one-dimensional right now. I actually think LeGarrett Blount is a little softer despite his size, and a little more shake-and-bake (weirdly, again despite his size), but they're both power runners who don't show a lot as a receiver. Think Toby Gerhart probably got a little more fullback talk because he can catch the ball and block, but I still think that's my favorite comparison for Williams' running style at the moment. He's a shoulders-down, hit-you kind of running back, and there's not a lot of those in the NFL right now which makes projecting him a little hard. He makes me think of Eddie Lacy a bit, too, but I think Lacy is more dynamic and explosive, more sudden.

You know, I just thought of this, but Andre Williams probably fits the nickname "cadillac" (as in "runaway cadillac") better than Carnell did. That's really how he runs. Super smooth and powerful; it's not all about the speed but he's also going a little faster than you think because he's so smooth. And he's liable to run over you.

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Old 11-24-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Looking at the stats for BC, it looks like it's just a change in philosophy. The first year, Harris took the majority of RB snaps. The past two years, he split time with Rolandan Finch. In the 2011 and 2012 seasons, they attempted 324 and 473 passes to 437 and 345 rushes. This season they have attempted 222 passes to 445 rushes, with almost 72% of the rushes coming from Andre.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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And if he made defenders miss, you'll still say "those are mediocre college kids".

No, because my whole point is he doesn't make defenders miss.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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No, because my whole point is he doesn't make defenders miss.
But he does break a lot of tackles, and gets downfield faster than he would if he was juking side to side. He has a very efficient, power-based running style. It's not a negative that he's not a finesse player.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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But he does break a lot of tackles, and gets downfield faster than he would if he was juking side to side. He has a very efficient, power-based running style. It's not a negative that he's not a finesse player.
My point was not to rag on him because he's not finesse. But his style of running isn't very conducive to long-term NFL success. He's not going to run over NFL players to the same extent he's doing it against ACC players. And I just don't see anything else in his game that makes him more than a #2 short yardage back. BJGE is a solid back that has had an NFL career he doesn't need to be embarrassed about.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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The one question I have about Williams is why it took him so long to break out??

RBs usually show much earlier in their careers if they're talented.

You rarely see a RB who's an overnight sensation as a SENIOR.
IIRC this happened to Larry Johnson.

With that said, he kind of reminds me of Larry Johnson. Although not as fast
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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They don't give him anything in the passing game, so it's tough to nail an exact comparison. He runs like a number of guys, though.

He's not too dissimilar to William Green. The way he kind of glides through a hole also reminds me of Deuce McAllister when he was at Ole Miss. Or even Eddie George.

For more current comparisons, I can see Steven Ridley or Arian Foster.

His lower body is very Michael Turner-ish, but he's in shape everywhere else, too.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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The one question I have about Williams is why it took him so long to break out??

RBs usually show much earlier in their careers if they're talented.

You rarely see a RB who's an overnight sensation as a SENIOR.
Much of his game no doubt is the result of pressing iron.

Scheme. Scheme. And Scheme.


His first 3 years at BC, he was running behind a zone blocking scheme. He's not that type of slashing back with patience. This year, BC is running a gap running scheme, where the RB's plant, read the block(s) and get north/south. He's that type of back. Power, vision, power, agility and power. He's like a cheetah with the lower body of a fricken rhino.

In saying that, he likely needs to keep in a similar type playbook in the NFL to really be a good player. If a zone scheme team takes him, he'll have a hard time.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Nice little story/interview with Todd McShay.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/colle...andre-williams
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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I see some Brandon Jacobs in him.
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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For some reason I want him on the 49ers. I think he just has the perfect size for a running back. I liked Scott's comments on regarding what his limitations may be. Definitely looks like a north/south runner that doesn't have that breakaway ability. At the same time he's just a smashmouth back that will run you over. Those seem to bust more than they do boom in the NFL, but I have a good feeling about this one. Hopefully he's the next Michael Turner and not the next Ron Dayne.
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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The one question I have about Williams is why it took him so long to break out??

RBs usually show much earlier in their careers if they're talented.

You rarely see a RB who's an overnight sensation as a SENIOR.
Much of his game no doubt is the result of pressing iron.

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Old 01-31-2014, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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For some reason I want him on the 49ers. I think he just has the perfect size for a running back. I liked Scott's comments on regarding what his limitations may be. Definitely looks like a north/south runner that doesn't have that breakaway ability. At the same time he's just a smashmouth back that will run you over. Those seem to bust more than they do boom in the NFL, but I have a good feeling about this one. Hopefully he's the next Michael Turner and not the next Ron Dayne.
He's not the next Michael "The Burner" Turner if he doesn't have breakaway speed.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Imagine what Shanahan would do with him.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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Greg Peshek did an analysis on his carries and found that while he is often billed as a "power back" due to his size, he really didn't break a lot of tackles nor did he really push the pile on any monumental level.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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He's not the next Michael "The Burner" Turner if he doesn't have breakaway speed.
The next Curtis Martin then. Fixed.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Should've won the Heisman
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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I still have no clue why Michael Turner didn't go higher
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Greg Peshek did an analysis on his carries and found that while he is often billed as a "power back" due to his size, he really didn't break a lot of tackles nor did he really push the pile on any monumental level.

If you saw Andre Williams play just one game, I don't know how you can't see that his physical strength is a major part of his game.

He looked like Earl Campbell against Maryland last season.

I also think he's going to run faster than people are assuming(@sub 4.55).
Anyway Williams is fast enough for a 225#+ RB on the field.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Should've won the Heisman
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
If you saw Andre Williams play just one game, I don't know how you can't see that his physical strength is a major part of his game.

NU_Gap In process of charting Andre Williams. Comparison that I keep getting while watching is Daniel Thomas - big backs that don't always play big

NU_Gap When I talk about Andre Williams not playing like a big back - 53% of carries are < 3 yards (through 4 games). Not getting the extra drive

NU_Gap Interesting stat to me...Carlos Hyde converted 80% of his 3rd and short runs on the season. Andre Williams converted 45%



Here is his more detailed comparison of Williams to Hyde and Hill (the other top "big backs"):

http://secondroundstats.com/?p=558
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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I hope he succeeds at the next level.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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BC's offense was so one dimensional, it's really hard to compare Andre Williams to RBs whose teams were effective throwing the football.

No one said Williams is better than Hyde or Hill, but doing what Williams did at BC with the marginal offensive talent and Oline around him is more impressive IMO than Hyde's production at OSU or Hill at LSU.

If 54% of Williams' carries were for less than 3 yards, his average yards/carry for the other 46% of his carries had to be around 10+ yards to reach an average of 6.1 yards/carry, Andre Williams' season average.
Not too shabby.

Was Hyde suspended the first 3 games of 2013?? If he had played in those games(Buffalo/SD State/Cal), I think he had a great chance to top 2K himself.
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