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Old 02-02-2014, 12:01 AM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
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What do u guys think of Orakpo? I think him amd clay would be good together
If we're going to throw money at a FA, it is going to be a safety. And that's still doubtful.

I like Orakpo, but exactly 0% chance it happens.
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Lacy won off rookie of the year
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:58 AM    (permalink
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What do u guys think of Orakpo? I think him amd clay would be good together
I think it would be poor management of our cap to throw a considerable amount of money at another edge rusher to compensate for our organization's inability to develop pressure outside of Clay.

Sam Shields needs to get paid, first and foremost, and then I would look at extensions for Nelson and Cobb.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I think it would be poor management of our cap to throw a considerable amount of money at another edge rusher to compensate for our organization's inability to develop pressure outside of Clay.

Sam Shields needs to get paid, first and foremost, and then I would look at extensions for Nelson and Cobb.
Right on that.... Shields IMO is about a 50-50% deal whether he stays or leaves.
Someone else out there is going to throw a bigger # at him than Teddy wants to pay.
Like the Grapes with Jennings.
Teddy wanted to re-sign Greg but the Vikings were fools and Ted don't play that game.

I like Sam more and he's a rarer commodity and a gem of Ted's as an Undrafted find... like Tramon. Both starters, undrafted.
He values those finds and wants to keep Sam I am.

We need help at safety.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Right on that.... Shields IMO is about a 50-50% deal whether he stays or leaves.
Someone else out there is going to throw a bigger # at him than Teddy wants to pay.
Like the Grapes with Jennings.
Teddy wanted to re-sign Greg but the Vikings were fools and Ted don't play that game.

I like Sam more and he's a rarer commodity and a gem of Ted's as an Undrafted find... like Tramon. Both starters, undrafted.
He values those finds and wants to keep Sam I am.

We need help at safety.
Completely agree with the latter part of your post. Sam is a very different FA than Jennings.

Let's face it, Jennings had been injured and mostly ineffective before we ditched him. AND we had Cobb waiting in the wings as, frankly, a more explosive version of Jennings (plus Finely, Jones, Nelson.)

I, for one, was SHOCKED we offered Jennings the deal we did. It was much more than I would have.

Sam, on the other hand, is one of our defensive cornerstones moving forward and there is no one who can step in to replace him on our roster or in the draft. I think TT values him much more than he did Jennings, which bodes well for Shields.

I think he caps out at 9-10 mil/year and we can afford that. I also wouldn't be shocked if it's more in the 6-8 mil/year range, which would be great for us.

Worst case, we franchise him. Has to happen.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Fellas, not to beat a dead horse here, but let us be real here.

Talked to some folks on twitter tonight about the work Jon Schneider did this off-season, and how he obviously didn't learn it from Thompson.

Seattle, already better than us last year at the end, especially on defense, they added 2 proven good guys on their DL to boost their pass-rush (remember that pass rush already had 7 sacks against us in the first half), in Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett.
Both of these guys paid off big time, and they weren't expensive.

Ted Thompson has not signed a real FA since 2006.

Seattle also traded their late 1st round pick last April for Percy Harvin, a superstud playmaking weapon. Now that didn't payoff all year as he was hurt, but he was a clear difference-maker in this Super Bowl.

He did more than our first round pick did this year.
He did more than our 2012 first round pick did his rookie year.
He did more than our 2011 first round pick did.

Where did Schneider learn from, to be aggressive and think outside the box?

Not Ted Thompson, but Ron Wolf.

If Thompson does not bring in a proven veteran at safety this off-season, I am going to go ballistic.
You HAVE to improve this defense and it CAN be done in one off-season.
But not ONLY thru the damn draft.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Fellas, not to beat a dead horse here, but let us be real here.

Talked to some folks on twitter tonight about the work Jon Schneider did this off-season, and how he obviously didn't learn it from Thompson.

Seattle, already better than us last year at the end, especially on defense, they added 2 proven good guys on their DL to boost their pass-rush (remember that pass rush already had 7 sacks against us in the first half), in Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett.
Both of these guys paid off big time, and they weren't expensive.

Ted Thompson has not signed a real FA since 2006.

Seattle also traded their late 1st round pick last April for Percy Harvin, a superstud playmaking weapon. Now that didn't payoff all year as he was hurt, but he was a clear difference-maker in this Super Bowl.

He did more than our first round pick did this year.
He did more than our 2012 first round pick did his rookie year.
He did more than our 2011 first round pick did.

Where did Schneider learn from, to be aggressive and think outside the box?

Not Ted Thompson, but Ron Wolf.

If Thompson does not bring in a proven veteran at safety this off-season, I am going to go ballistic.
You HAVE to improve this defense and it CAN be done in one off-season.
But not ONLY thru the damn draft.
Fair analysis, BUT......this Packers team is built for the next 7 years to be contenders (when Arod is not breaking his collarbone). I will not fault TT for making our team formidable for the years to come.

It is clear though, a tough defense is generally > than a great offense.

Really hoping for some improved defensive play next year.

That starts with keeping Shields, Pickett, and Neal.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Let's not starting hanging TT.

Seattle's D, with almost entirely home-drafted players, was great last year, too. Yes, getting Avril and Bennett was a fantastic move. Neither of those players were going to come to a 3-4 and I can't think of any 3-4 defensive players last year that changed teams and were as good as those two.

That move for Percy Harvin looked terrible all year long until this game. Also, he was only available because the guy is a huge headache. I would never want a player like that.

Do I agree that we need to make a FA move for once? Yes. Absolutely. If we are serious about fixing the D, we would go out and offer Byrd a 10-11 mil/year deal. If not top dollar, then a guy like TJ Ward or Pollard.

We have challenges from a FA standpoint. We're not a fun city. And people that don't think Seattle is a great city, haven't visited (it's an incredible city to live in.) We won't offer these giant contracts. We don't look as likely a super bowl contender as in years past.

But it's worth keeping in mind that these FA deals often backfire. TT isn't hesitant because he doesn't want to spend money, he's hesitant because he wants to spend it wisely. This is definitely the year to make moves, though, as there will be a rare availability of talent at our biggest position of need.

Do I think our defense will get back to 2010 any time soon? Sadly, no. We're too much finesse and poor technique. Unless we really hit a few homeruns, and I mean home runs, I think our upside is a D in the 10th-15th best range.

I hope I'm wrong.

Worth mentioning is that we're still a contender. We almost took out the 49ers without Heyward, Matthews and Shields. That's impressive to me. I think our offense is the best in the league with our combination of running, passing and Oline talent if we just bring up our red zone and 3rd down game a touch. I really do think the OLine can be very good next year with our rookies having a year under their belt and Bulaga coming back. That, alone, makes us much more formidable.

Also, the game in Seattle next year is going to mean everything to me. THAT is the ONLY opportunity I'll have until the Super Bowl to stop the Seahawk fans chirping.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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A) Do I agree that we need to make a FA move for once? Yes. Absolutely. If we are serious about fixing the D, we would go out and offer Byrd a 10-11 mil/year deal. If not top dollar, then a guy like TJ Ward or Pollard.

B) But it's worth keeping in mind that these FA deals often backfire. TT isn't hesitant because he doesn't want to spend money, he's hesitant because he wants to spend it wisely.

C) Do I think our defense will get back to 2010 any time soon? Sadly, no. We're too much finesse and poor technique. Unless we really hit a few homeruns, and I mean home runs, I think our upside is a D in the 10th-15th best range.
A) I haven't found anyone, local or national, who disagrees with that. We need to fix some problems via FA and/or trade. Will he do it?

B) FA deals can backfire yes. So can whiffing on 1st round picks.
You have to go back to the 2009 draft to find one of our 1st round picks who provided much if anything this season, or last, or 2011. That backfired too. There's risk in everything. No sure-things. I believe it's much easier to analyze, project a player from one NFL team to another, than from the Big 12 or Pac-10 to the NFL.

C) TT needs an A+ off-season, and then it will be on Capers and the luck of injuries.
But imagine.... if.....
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:50 AM    (permalink
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C) TT needs an A+ off-season, and then it will be on Capers and the luck of injuries.
But imagine.... if.....
I think an A+ off season gets us to around the 10th best defense. We're not very close. And what makes you think anything we do now will be more effective? We've floundered around on defense like dead fish each of the last three years.

Unfortunately, I see us as a perennial playoff team that doesn't make the Super bowl again in the foreseeable future. Rodgers has lost his edge in the playoffs. Injuries are constant. Questionable coaching. Terrible defense and terrible special teams. Realistically, I think Rodgers might end up with only one ring.


I've tried to be optimistic but realistically I don't think we're a contender unless something radically changes.

*edit* I was feeling a bit.. uh.. aggravated when I wrote this post. My real feelings about our future prospects is probably smack dab in the middle of this and the rest of my posts.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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If TT and Capers can put a defense on the field that ranks somewhere between 10-15 I like our chances. As long as Rodgers is healthy for a full season the offense should produce. I don't think we need a top 5 defense to win a Super Bowl.

Also, if the FA discussion don't lose sight of the fact that Seattle was paying Russell Wilson and Sherman on their rookie deals. I'm interested to see what happens when they have to pay those guys. Once Russell, Thomas, and Sherman are eating up a large portion of their cap they won't be making those splash FA deals either. During the pregame coverage I think Rappaport said that early indications are that if it comes down to Thomas or Sherman, Thomas is the priority.

Also, teams always come knocking for your FAs, even your role players, after you win a Super Bowl. It will be interesting to see how they deal with that.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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I think it's time for Capers to go. I was in his corner until about half way through this season. I don't know what "it" is, but I don't think Capers has it anymore.

We should have made a play for Rob Ryan last offseason.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I think it's time for Capers to go. I was in his corner until about half way through this season. I don't know what "it" is, but I don't think Capers has it anymore.

We should have made a play for Rob Ryan last offseason.
I was the opposite, oddly enough. I really think our safeties were so bad that it completely destroyed his schemes. No interceptions and PFF had our safeties allowing something like a 120 passer rating. In the NFL passing central that it is today,that's the worst possible thing for a defense.

We've tried to address everything that's been wrong each of the last 3 years, to TTs credit. And yeah, we've had bad luck. I was telling Hawk fans to enjoy this because they'll never get to the Super Bowl so healthy again. They weren't missing a single, meaningful player on either side of the ball.

What are the three things I think we honestly need to be a contender? And on a 1-10 scale how likely will it happen? (1 being it absolutely will not happen, 10 being you can bet a grand on it now.)

* The OLine needs to gel and Rodgers + McCarthy needs to gain more trust in them. This seemed to be the main cause of our poor red zone and third down numbers; not even that the OLine wasn't doing well, but that it seemed like we EXPECTED them to do poorly.

How likely: 8/10. This is the most optimistic one to me. I think a line of Bahk, Sitton, EDS, Lang, Bulaga has top 5 in the NFL potential. I really do. Combine that with backups having valuable game experience and some potential wildcards in guys like Tretter and Sherrod, I actually feel really solid about this group. Lacy being here actually takes a lot of pressure off of them as well, as he's obviously not a guy that needs perfect blocking to succeed.

* The back half of the defense needs to play smart football and not give up long plays. That, alone, was our biggest problem all year (obviously.) If people want to nickel and dime us, fine. Let them. Make them work hard to keep up with our offense. But when they gash us on single plays it's just not going to work. When I go back and watch the Packers, I don't think Capers is at fault here. I keep seeing guys in the correct zones for the play the offense is running but who react incorrectly or too slowly. Or just whiff on what should be routine picks. Part of this is coaching these guys better but part is just getting better deep players. I don't think we could do worse (knock on wood) with two new safeties next year.

How Likely: 5/10. I think we'll solve a quarter of the problem by replacing the guy next to Burnett with an improved player, whether that's a FA or a high draft pick. But I don't think we'll give up on Burnett, which could end up being the fatal mistake of the season. I think we'll see better coverage schemes on the back half of the defense. Heyward will take pressure off the back half by doing great work from the slot. So will it improve? I definitely think so. Will it improve ENOUGH? I kind of doubt it. I think when you put out a guy like Burnett, who teams know won't even intercept the ball on terrible passes, you're asking for disaster. Frankly, Jarrett Bush would be an improvement over Burnett; yes, Bush sucks in coverage but if you throw a lob at him he'll pick it off. You throw a lob at Burnett, you probably have a TD and worst case incompletion.

* Special. Teams. Needs. To. Stop. Sucking. Talk about a coach that should get fired, how about Slocum? Yes, Crosby did better this year. But the rest of our special team was often atrocious. It seems like every time a team needs a long return to regain momentum, they get one. I don't care about injuries, this is special freaking teams. Our offense is good enough, we don't need huge sparks from the return game. We just need to avoid turnovers. We need our coverage units to be very good to make up for our non-elite D. It's crazy how bad they have been most of the time.

How Likely: 4/10. Another middling estimate, I know, but this is a hard one. On one hand, I think Crosby could be serviceable (even if I'm concerned his production drops back to 2012 with pressure mostly off) and I think Hyde is a reliable returnman. On the other, our coverage teams are still going to be coached by a terrible coach. This is the one that doesn't seem as big in the regular season but kills you in the playoffs.

I realize we have other issues, consistent pass rush, missed tackles, etc.. but I feel like a healthy Clay fixes a lot of the stuff in the front seven. I also think we'll see improved play from Daniels and Jones and have a new starter somewhere in that front seven that will be a step up. So I sort of think those problems aren't as pressing to us being a contender.
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Old 02-03-2014, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I was telling Hawk fans to enjoy this because they'll never get to the Super Bowl so healthy again. They weren't missing a single, meaningful player on either side of the ball.

........but I feel like a healthy Clay fixes a lot of the stuff in the front seven......
Seattle's defense was unbelievably healthy. Like the Niners were.
Interesting, Bowman and Iupati finaly got hurt in their loss to the Seahawks.
And Sherman finally got hurt yesterday.

With us, it's always a ******* clusterfuck of big injuries.
Starting OTs, starting OLB, starting WR, starting TE, starting CB, even Rodgers.
It's ******** and I am way past sick of it as all of us are. It's sickening. It's 95% bad luck, and 5% blame the trainers/strength/conditioning guys.

We need to go from crappy S and ILB play to good S and ILB play, and our defense will be a lot better.
I like our DL guys with Daniels, Datone.... I wish Worthy was worthy of a 2nd round pick.

I also agree with you guys I wish we had gone for Rob Ryan last year.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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I also agree with you guys I wish we had gone for Rob Ryan last year.
This, I don't get. Rob Ryan? How is he any better than Dom Capers? Did you see the defenses he fielded in Dallas? They were not good. Dom Capers has fielded a fantastic Super Bowl defense. That's much more than Ryan has done and it's not like Ryan hasn't had chances or talent.

Now, Rex Ryan would be a different matter. How he has turned some of these Jet defenses devoid of talent all over the place into top 10 Ds is beyond me. I can only imagine what he'd do with a good offense staking him a lead.

In the end, though, that's the problem. Who is really better than Capers that isn't going to bolt year 2 for a Head Coach job? Answer: No one. Again, I doubt Capers does too much hands on with teaching players how to carry out their positions in his schemes; that's why you have positional coaches. So when I see them in good positions, good plays against the called offense, and whiffing how is that on him? How is having a bunch of safeties who absolutely suck fall on him? He didn't draft them.

I was leading the charge against Capers until I looked back at games and realized these safeties and Clay being out/ineffective accounted for like 80% of the problem. For you Capers haters, go back and watch all the 20+ plays against us this year. Watch what our defense does and how slowly and wrong the safeties (who are clearly supposed to be in deep zones) react. Or watch the big play where Nick Perry was squared up perfectly in contain on a fake end around and falls on his ass rather than tackle the RB. Or watch the Jackson TD in the Eagles game where two players should have picked it off. I mean, it's crazy how bad some of these plays were executed when they got the players into such GOOD positions.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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I also agree with you guys I wish we had gone for Rob Ryan last year.
This, I don't get. Rob Ryan? How is he any better than Dom Capers? Did you see the defenses he fielded in Dallas? They were not good. Dom Capers has fielded a fantastic Super Bowl defense. That's much more than Ryan has done and it's not like Ryan hasn't had chances or talent.

Now, Rex Ryan would be a different matter. How he has turned some of these Jet defenses devoid of talent all over the place into top 10 Ds is beyond me. I can only imagine what he'd do with a good offense staking him a lead.

In the end, though, that's the problem. Who is really better than Capers that isn't going to bolt year 2 for a Head Coach job? Answer: No one. Again, I doubt Capers does too much hands on with teaching players how to carry out their positions in his schemes; that's why you have positional coaches. So when I see them in good positions, good plays against the called offense, and whiffing how is that on him? How is having a bunch of safeties who absolutely suck fall on him? He didn't draft them.

I was leading the charge against Capers until I looked back at games and realized these safeties and Clay being out/ineffective accounted for like 80% of the problem. For you Capers haters, go back and watch all the 20+ plays against us this year. Watch what our defense does and how slowly and wrong the safeties (who are clearly supposed to be in deep zones) react. Or watch the big play where Nick Perry was squared up perfectly in contain on a fake end around and falls on his ass rather than tackle the RB. Or watch the Jackson TD in the Eagles game where two players should have picked it off. I mean, it's crazy how bad some of these plays were executed when they got the players into such GOOD positions.
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Nick Collins is tweeting about being ready for a comeback. Probably a pipe dream, but who knows.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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Nick Collins is tweeting about being ready for a comeback. Probably a pipe dream, but who knows.
I'm pretty sure he tried to get other teams to sign him when he was released, too. Sadly, no one cleared him. Unless he had some sort of surgery that he didn't mention, I doubt anything has change.

Plus now he's two years out of football and over 30. I think he's just frustrated, rightfully so.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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It would be amazing if Collins could come back. Two years away from football and hes still probably better than ne safety we have on our roster.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...r-with-packers

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's certainly better news than when Collins went down, when we had a cone of silence until his release, but it also strikes me as a bit desperate. It was also revealed about Collins that he was doing the same stuff Finley is now until he went for a followup and they immediately shut him down for career ending, so it's not as good of a sign as they make it sound.

I've never been a huge Finley fan, not since the Cardinals playoff game, but he did have some plays this year that impressed me and showed a new toughness. He was blocking better and that TD where he trucked three defenders was really nice.

I think it boils down to two things.

1) Is he actually as close to being fully cleared as they indicate? Peyton's success surely helps his cause coming off a very similar procedure.

2) Does he really expect to get top 5 TE money?

If he is fully cleared by training camp and we can get him on a 4-5 mil/year deal, I'm in. I'm even in if it's a one year, make or break type deal.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Sam Gash - RB's Coach
Ron Zook - OLB's Coach
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Correction: Zook being hired as assistant ST coach

I wonder if he'll help coach up the D in some aspect though

so as of now, OLB coach still needs to be filled
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Interesting. It's a pretty impressive hire for such an unimpressive opening. The guy has had some pretty high profile jobs. At least brings some credibility.

Maybe he can help get our Special Teams to respectability.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Winston Moss is taking over OLB in addition to ILB and assistant HC. He'll be assisted by McCurley.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Something I am finding very interesting is Calvin Pryor leap frogging Ha'sean for the first safety chosen. That could work out very well for us. With only 20 picks ahead of us and at least 3 QBs and 4 Olineman locks to go, I don't see two safeties AND Mosley going in those 13 picks.

So what intrigues me is that it's a copycat league and I really think teams might bump Pryor up based on his physicality after seeing the Seahawks D dominate. He's not quite as tall as Kam Chancellor but Pryor is an imposing hitter who can also cover and I think a lot of teams might covet that more.

For us, I definitely think Ha'sean is the better pick (although I'd love either.) Our offense is good enough that the number one priority is to prevent big plays on defense, in my opinion. Pryor is going to give you a little more on a play by play basis but Ha'sean is going to prevent more of those big plays.

More likely, the Bears will take him at 14. Da dumb bears...
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