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Old 01-16-2014, 10:11 AM    (permalink
KaneMarko
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Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD View Post
I'm with you on the safety front. I think you should groom Commings and bring in a cheaper solid vet to compete with him.



Can a WR be as effective as TE in the redzone? Sure. Judging by the years I've seen Alex Smith play, I think he'd look at his TE first though.

The thing about this is the Chiefs aren't shopping for a #1 WR. Like or hate Bowe, he's just entering year two into a long term deal and the Chiefs haven't indicated at all that they are wavering from him. The Chiefs are going to be shopping for a # 2/3. The draft and Free Agency is going to be literally overflowing with options to fill those roles. Why feel pressed to burn the top pick for that?
Yeah, the Chiefs are locked in with Bowe for at least 2 more years. Cutting him now would cause a pretty major cap hit that they cannot absorb.

It'll depend greatly on what they do in free agency. I don't think the Chiefs should feel pressed to fill any position at this point. Although they certainly have some places that they could really use improvements i.e. WR, pass rush, DB, TE, etc. But, if we're ranking needs and factoring in impact of the position , I just think WR is up near the top of the list because the Chiefs didn't get any consistent production at that position.

Like I said before, there are only so many things a good TE can do unless they are Vernon Davis or Antonia Gates in his prime. A TE typically isn't going to run a go-route and take the top off a defense like a WR potentially can. I just think that is something the Chiefs really need because too much this year they relied on short underneath routes. I really feel this team needs to get better at threatening deep because that will only help guys like Charles, the TEs and all the running plays and shorter routes because the defense will have to respect the deep ball and open up things underneath.

You won't hear me complain one bit if they took Jace Amaro or the kid from UNC in the first. I'm just saying that for me, if there is a game changing WR there when the Chiefs are on the clock, that might provide a bigger impact than the TE would due to the sheer differences in what each position brings to the table (that based on them not filling things in FA).
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Good thread guys! I hope the Chiefs take an open-minded approach to the draft. At 23 they need to let the draft come to them and take the best of what's available rather than try to force a selection based on position of greatest need. They have several needs and I think we all agree on what they are.

If it was me and Ha Ha was available, I'd take him, but I don't think he will be. Unless someone steps up and make a dramatic improvement, WR and TE are both needs. Take the best guy at either position. If they let Jackson walk, then they'll need a DE. Will Tuitt slip that far?

The Chiefs are in a difficult position at WR because they are paying Bowe WR1 money and he's really a WR2, a good one but a possession receiver. Then there's the drug suspension for the Riverside traffic stop. (you know its coming)

8-8 next year is looking pretty good.

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Old 01-16-2014, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I don't get how anyone can look at this roster and think WR is still the biggest need.

This isn't a huge air it out offense. It's a run first, grind out the yards type of offense. Another WR would certainly help, but do you really think Alex Smith is all of the sudden going to turn into Peyton Manning? Maybe a RB, one TE (Kelce) and one WR (Bowe) is enough?

On defense though we have the biggest hole on the roster. Kendrick Lewis cannot start another game for this team. He just can't. He's always out of position and he can't tackle. I wasn't exaggerating when I said he might be the single worst player in the NFL.

1. FS
2. FS
3. FS
4. FS
5. DL
6. WR/TE
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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I don't get how anyone can look at this roster and think WR is still the biggest need.

This isn't a huge air it out offense. It's a run first, grind out the yards type of offense. Another WR would certainly help, but do you really think Alex Smith is all of the sudden going to turn into Peyton Manning? Maybe a RB, one TE (Kelce) and one WR (Bowe) is enough?

On defense though we have the biggest hole on the roster. Kendrick Lewis cannot start another game for this team. He just can't. He's always out of position and he can't tackle. I wasn't exaggerating when I said he might be the single worst player in the NFL.

1. FS
2. FS
3. FS
4. FS
5. DL
6. WR/TE
I agree with you (at least in theory) BUT I think there are probably only two safeties in the draft with first round grades, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Calvin Pryor. If both are gone (as in Kiper's Mock Draft #1), would you still draft a safety? Personally, I think that would be a mistake.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Nah you're all right when you said don't reach for a position, and in that case I'd probably go pass catcher or DLine, just speaking to the people who are saying the biggest need is WR.

The Chiefs started to put points on the board when they got comfortable in the offense. As the year went on, they got better.

They got NOTICEABLY worse on defense as the year went on though, and we can't ignore that fact. That's all I'm sayin.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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I still think lack of a pass rush was more of a contributing factor to the defense's epic collapse down the stretch. There is no way having two such stellar ends in Houston and Hali plus a monster in the middle in Poe should have produced such a non-existent pass rush. Does free need to be addressed? Yes.

But receiver is a huge need. A corps of Dwayne Bowe, Donnie Avery, Dexter McCluster, Junior Hemingway, AJ Jenkins, and little white kid what's his name could and should be upgraded, heavily.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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Deep WR draft means we should wait, imo.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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I can't shake that feeling that Clinton-Dix or Pryor aren't worth a first round selection.

A lot of discussion going into skill position players when Andy is probably taking a Defensive lineman. There's need and he has the history of doing so.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD View Post
I can't shake that feeling that Clinton-Dix or Pryor aren't worth a first round selection.

A lot of discussion going into skill position players when Andy is probably taking a Defensive lineman. There's need and he has the history of doing so.
He has a tendency to take linemen on both sides of the ball. I wouldn't be mad if they took Ealy, Hageman, Tuitt, Quarles, or Murphy. I'm secretly wishing Khalil Mack would fall to the early 20s as I think he'd be a stud right next to DJ.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:30 AM    (permalink
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After looking over some numbers, we're in pretty rough shape in terms of cap space going into 2014.

While we are gonna be under the cap, it's not going to be a lot and it looks like they'll have to free up space for just rookies. Gonna be a very quiet March in KC.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD View Post
I can't shake that feeling that Clinton-Dix or Pryor aren't worth a first round selection.

A lot of discussion going into skill position players when Andy is probably taking a Defensive lineman. There's need and he has the history of doing so.
I'm in agreement with you on Clinton-Dix. I know safety is a big concern with the Chiefs. But, and I know this is a blanket statement, in general, Bama DBs haven't exactly lit it up once they got to the league. Saban is a defensive backs genius and all. But I'm starting to think a lot of the guys, particularly at DB, that come out of Bama are a product of his genius. IDK. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just fearful of spending a 1st round pick on Ha-Ha.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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I don't get how anyone can look at this roster and think WR is still the biggest need.

This isn't a huge air it out offense. It's a run first, grind out the yards type of offense. Another WR would certainly help, but do you really think Alex Smith is all of the sudden going to turn into Peyton Manning? Maybe a RB, one TE (Kelce) and one WR (Bowe) is enough?

On defense though we have the biggest hole on the roster. Kendrick Lewis cannot start another game for this team. He just can't. He's always out of position and he can't tackle. I wasn't exaggerating when I said he might be the single worst player in the NFL.

1. FS
2. FS
3. FS
4. FS
5. DL
6. WR/TE
IDK V. IMO, WR might not be the absolute biggest need. But, IMO it's probably #2. We see how the league is trending. It's trending more towards an air-it-out game. Alex Smith will never be mistaken for Manning/Brady/Brees/Rogers. But in order for this team to get to the SB, he might have to kinda trend that way some.

We're kinda seeing a huge contrast in "how to do it" with this year's SB. On one hand you have the air-it-out way of Manning and all those weapons in Denver. Then on the other side you have the ball control offense backed up with a crushing defense. I think regardless of how this plays out, I just think it'd benefit the Chiefs a lot to get a WR at some point early in this draft or in FA. It doesn't have to be in the 1st per se. But I really think this team needs to add at least one guy that can be a downfield threat that can help open up things for Charles and the underneath routes.

For me, right now, WR, passrusher (be it an edge rusher or an interior passrusher), DB (that includes corner and safety) and maybe TE, in some order are the Chiefs' biggest needs. For me, WR and pass rusher are interchangeable as far as biggest of needs.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I still think lack of a pass rush was more of a contributing factor to the defense's epic collapse down the stretch. There is no way having two such stellar ends in Houston and Hali plus a monster in the middle in Poe should have produced such a non-existent pass rush. Does free need to be addressed? Yes.

But receiver is a huge need. A corps of Dwayne Bowe, Donnie Avery, Dexter McCluster, Junior Hemingway, AJ Jenkins, and little white kid what's his name could and should be upgraded, heavily.
see, when i watched, it did seem that our pass rush just disappeared, but i think that was more of an adjustment by the offenses than a lack of talent of the Chiefs pass rushers. it looked like every QB we played from Houston on threw the ball in a real hurry. everyone realized we were playing press man and running quick moves off the line to get a mostly free release and being open almost instantly. thats a problem with the CBs, IMO. i would definitely look for upgrades from Cooper and Robinson. and as everyone saw, when the CB had safety help over the top, it wasn't there or was critically late. FS is definitely a position that needs to be upgraded as well.

we may need to replace Jackson if he isnt willing to take a substantial pay cut. also, LT, LG and overall OLine depth will be needs for us at the draft.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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so doing another offseason mock. I've signed Jairus Byrd & Maclin in FA.now I'm trying to now move down from 23 to collect more picks but if I can't thinking about Cyril Richardson if he's there. Thoughts?
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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see, when i watched, it did seem that our pass rush just disappeared, but i think that was more of an adjustment by the offenses than a lack of talent of the Chiefs pass rushers. it looked like every QB we played from Houston on threw the ball in a real hurry. everyone realized we were playing press man and running quick moves off the line to get a mostly free release and being open almost instantly. thats a problem with the CBs, IMO. i would definitely look for upgrades from Cooper and Robinson. and as everyone saw, when the CB had safety help over the top, it wasn't there or was critically late. FS is definitely a position that needs to be upgraded as well.

we may need to replace Jackson if he isnt willing to take a substantial pay cut. also, LT, LG and overall OLine depth will be needs for us at the draft.

The shortest route to the QB is from the D-Tackle position. Ends like Tamba and Houston usually have to take an outside route to the QB more often than not. That takes more time than it would for a tackle to beat a guard or center (assuming he can) to get to the QB.

With the way the NFL is policing how CBs defend WRs, there's only so much a CB can do to deter a WR. IMO, the best way to improve the secondary is to get more pass rush. Specific to the Chiefs, they need more pass rush up the middle from the interior line. After Poe got his 4.5 sacks earlier in the season, we really didn't see much interior pass rush after that. If we are going to continue to play press man, then it becomes more imperative to get that quick interior rush up the middle. Because that's usually where the QB stands even if the throw is going to be short.

I think if we can get another interior rusher to push the pocket from the middle and create disturbances in the QBs face, that'll go a long way in helping Houston and Hali because the QB will have to either retreat further back to get room to throw (which helps the outside rush) or contend with a defensive lineman in his face. Both of which, subsequently, helps the corners as well. If we can get more interior pass rush, I think even if the QB throws quick we can still generate issues for him.

Corner is still a problem although I think Cooper is a rookie and still has plenty of room and time to get better (assuming he can recover from the mental beating he took the back half of the season). Sean Smith I'm luke warm on. So I'm not ruling out going after a corner somewhat high in this draft either. But I think Smith can be helped with more pass rush as well...to a degree.

Also note, Tamba Hali is going to be a pretty expensive 31 year old during the season. So at some point, for cap purposes, the Chiefs may have to part ways with Tamba (I think there is an outside chance it happens this year). And Justin Houston's cap number is going to skyrocket after next season i'd imagine due to him being a free agent after next year. So pass rush, in more ways than one, may have to be a huge focus at some point.

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Old 01-21-2014, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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I would say the time to negotiate with Houston is now. He's a guaranteed 10 sacks a year guy, plus he's a dynamite run defender.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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I would say the time to negotiate with Houston is now. He's a guaranteed 10 sacks a year guy, plus he's a dynamite run defender.
I don't know the numbers, but do we have the cap space to negotiate with him? Would the DT from Minnesota work out to be a 34 DE? He seems like he's whipping people around...I think we're going WR this year in the draft. Marquis Lee or the FSU guy...
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:10 PM    (permalink
TonyGfortheTD
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I don't know the numbers, but do we have the cap space to negotiate with him? Would the DT from Minnesota work out to be a 34 DE? He seems like he's whipping people around...I think we're going WR this year in the draft. Marquis Lee or the FSU guy...
They don't have the space to give him a new deal right now. The Chiefs would be better served at working an extension with Berry for now and try to get his 2014 figure lower.

We're gonna have to let Houston ride out his rookie deal and keep some space available for a possible franchise tag if it comes to it.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:17 AM    (permalink
KCStud
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Right now I want the Chiefs to draft one of the following 2 players with their first round pick.

Stephon Tuitt DE ND
Aaron Donald DE Pitt

We need a DE like a Sheldon Richardson, and we need it bad. Safety isn't strong in this class at all. I'd rather just wait until the mid rounds and get a guy like McGill from Utah or Ladler from Vanderbilt.
Commings will be starting at FS next year and I think he'll be much better than Lewis.

This team needs to build up the front 7. Get another monster in there to help Poe collapse the pocket and get another OLB to give Tamba and Houston a breather.
I can't emphasize just how bad we need to work on the pass rush. Yes it's solid when Houston is back, but we need to keep adding to it. That's how the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens and especially the Giants won their SB's. They kept getting pressure on the QB from different areas of the front 7 and were deep.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:39 AM    (permalink
KaneMarko
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Right now I want the Chiefs to draft one of the following 2 players with their first round pick.

Stephon Tuitt DE ND
Aaron Donald DE Pitt

We need a DE like a Sheldon Richardson, and we need it bad. Safety isn't strong in this class at all. I'd rather just wait until the mid rounds and get a guy like McGill from Utah or Ladler from Vanderbilt.
Commings will be starting at FS next year and I think he'll be much better than Lewis.

This team needs to build up the front 7. Get another monster in there to help Poe collapse the pocket and get another OLB to give Tamba and Houston a breather.
I can't emphasize just how bad we need to work on the pass rush. Yes it's solid when Houston is back, but we need to keep adding to it. That's how the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens and especially the Giants won their SB's. They kept getting pressure on the QB from different areas of the front 7 and were deep.
I'm in agreement with you. IDK if Tuitt will still be on the board at 23. But if he is, I think he deserves strong consideration there because he has demonstrated the potential to affect the pocket and rush the passer. Which is something we really need to improve upon and something that was lacking after about week 6 or 7.

But the Chiefs also need to be on the lookout for WR, TE, and CB at that spot too. Just going to depend on who is available and what value they provide relative to the importance of their position.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:35 PM    (permalink
Hermstheman83
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I'm in agreement with you. IDK if Tuitt will still be on the board at 23. But if he is, I think he deserves strong consideration there because he has demonstrated the potential to affect the pocket and rush the passer. Which is something we really need to improve upon and something that was lacking after about week 6 or 7.

But the Chiefs also need to be on the lookout for WR, TE, and CB at that spot too. Just going to depend on who is available and what value they provide relative to the importance of their position.
The more I think about it I think we'll be ok with whoever we pick. I think if FS is there, we take him regardless of what we think of Commings.
WR we'll probably look at Free Agency. Maybe Maclin will want too much money but I bet Sidney Rice will be available. Given his injury history he might not be worth too much cash flow.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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So Dunta Robinson was released, which is no surprise. Dude was terrible and way overpriced.

Still, that leaves our CB group kind of thin. Flow/Smith/Cooper and a bunch of nobodies behind them. I wouldn't be surprised to see CB addressed early.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Weston Dressler mofos!
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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FS has be #1 priority and WR #2 but at some point they really need to find an NT that can spell Dontari. No one can play that position and take every snap.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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FS has be #1 priority and WR #2 but at some point they really need to find an NT that can spell Dontari. No one can play that position and take every snap.
I agree with you, but I know I feel more comfortable with Poe in the middle the entire game.
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