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Old 01-30-2014, 02:19 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
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Could you guys see us signing a Vet like Mike Vick? I could see it happening. One he's a team guy that will fight for a job and if he doesn't get he'll work as the backup. Second, he'll sell tickets. Which the Bucs need help at. Mike Vick still makes plays that people want to see.
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Could you guys see us signing a Vet like Mike Vick? I could see it happening. One he's a team guy that will fight for a job and if he doesn't get he'll work as the backup. Second, he'll sell tickets. Which the Bucs need help at. Mike Vick still makes plays that people want to see.
No. McCown or draft pick. Everyone embrace Brett smith. Brashos hyping him got me to go back and dig deeper. Really like the value on round 2.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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I just can't see any logical reason he's not being talked up at this point. His film is super impressive and his skillset really fits for a Tedford QB.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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About Vick, any team bringing him in is going to probably pay him starter money and will HAVE to start him. He's a polarizing figure as well. Both for on and off field reasons. If Al Davis were alive I know where Vick would be signing...Freeman too. I think any team signing him will be annointing him the starter with no competition, with McCown, you could give him low starter money and have him compete.

Whether it's Brett Smith or not, I fully expect a QB to come off the board for us in rounds 2 or 3.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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The draft is pretty deep in starter/contribution talent in rounds 1-4. I see Lovie and Licht looking to move back and get another high day 2 pick.

In FA I see us going after veterans to help mold our younger guys. Guys like Tillman , Jared Allen and maybe an offensive linemen like roger Saffold or wr like dexter mccluster or golden Tate who will be value fas.

I would look to trade down. If Robinson is on the board OL starved teams might really want to trade up for him. Of trading down , I'd target a TE like Ebron. De like ealy or a DT to pair with McCoy like Donald.

Then round 2 , you can target a guy like Gabe Jackson at G and qb Brett smith.

Round 4, ya win Smallwood ILB. If they don't like foster to man the middle and see him at SLB.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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My own mini mock :

Offseason resigning a:

- g jamon Meredith
- slb dekota Watson
- wr tiquan underwood
- Rfa tender rb bobby Rainey
- FB Eric lorig

Cuts:
- g davin Joseph

Restructure:
- lt Donald penn

FA signings:
- de Jared Allen 3 years 20 mm
- cb Charles Tillman 3 years 12 mm
- g/t roger Saffold 2 years 5 mm
- wr dexter mccluster 3 years 9 mm

Extend: DT Gerald McCoy 5 years 50 mm

Draft:
Trade with Miami dolphins for 2nd and 4th round picks.
As they target Robinson at LT.
1st: Aaron Donald DT Pittsburgh
2nd: Austin S. Jenkins TE Washington
2nd via Miami: Brett Smith qb Wyoming
4th: Jackson jeffcoat de Texas
4th via Miami: John halapolio G Florida
5th: Jonathan brown LB Illinois
7th round: Andrew norwell g Ohio state
7th: jalen Saunders wr Oklahoma
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I would love us trading down and taking Donald. McCoy and Donald would be amazing.

After watching the Hawks in the Superbowl. All I could think about is we need to draft a pass rusher with one of our first two picks, we need to sign a big time pass rusher ( Hardy, Orakpo, Allen etc.. ) and we need one of the 3 DE's on our team need to become better ( Clayborne, Bowers or Gholston )
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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My question on Jared Allen is he looking for a pay day or is he looking to be put on a contending team? I think it's the latter. I would love to sign him but I'm guessing it does not happen. I think we end up with one of the 2nd tier guys like E. Griffen or Willie Young and draft one.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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I would love to have Lamarcus Joyner on our team. If he fell to the second I would break the TV if we didn't draft him. But no way I think he gets out of the first.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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See..... what I don't get..... even a little bit...... is how in one breath, Glennon has all these limitations that our brand new QB guru CANNOT possibly fix somehow...... and in the next, ya'll are slobbering over one of the most technically unsound prospects at QB to come along in awhile while claiming that now all of a sudden in this "special case", Tedford WILL have all the answers to mould him into a QB.

That's wishful, flawed, thinking. At very best. Borderline insane fantasy is about right.


Here's what I'm seeing. Given Lovie's track record, he's probably going to give Glennon a shot to cement his position on this team. Remember, he did go to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman before investing in Cutler while building defense, defense, defense in the meantime. I think, for better or for worse, that's the track we're gonna take to evaluate Glennon and build this team.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I didn't say Tedford would mold him into a QB... he has way better tools than Glennon to start with. His release is lightning fast and his mechanics are no worse than top 10 lock, Bortles, his arm is as strong as Glennon's, his mobility is outstanding, and unlike Glennon, this guy excels at making plays when there are no plays that can be made. He is a playmaker, plain and simple. You can call him a poor man's Manziel, but I don't see the huge difference. His tapes against top competition are excellent (Nebraska, Texas) keeping his completely overwhelmed team in both games, I don't see a huge drop-off from Manziel, plus, even though he is more of an unknown, he's not known nationally as a party animal poon hound alcoholic...whether that's true about Manziel or not... also, with the team that drafts Smith in round 2 or 3 or wherever, there is much less pressure to play him right away unless it is purely merit based. I see a guy like Smith coming in to push Glennon and develop along the way is a good plan... as I do agree with you about Lovie and most likely him not drafting or signing a replacement, but legit competition.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Disagree completely. That evaluation is as false as the sky is green.

You guys are living in a drive-thru mentality here.


There is no downside to A) letting Glennon prove it, or B) lose it. Because if he proves he's a winner.... great, moving on. If he loses the job, fantastic. That means our record probably sucks, which means we can be in position to nab.... say...... Brett Hundley. Who just happens to be a perfect.... and I mean perfect.... mold QB for Tedford and the offense he wants to run. Hundley reminds me a lot of Aaron Rodgers. And other than Jameis Winston and Kevin Hogan, he looks to be one of the best 3 QB's in 2014 and 2015.


Where Brett Smith is likely gonna be taken, or where it is being suggested here he be taken, there's going to be far superior talent to be had. Taking Brett Smith in Rounds 2 or 3...... that would be as bad as when we picked Dexter Jackson in 2008 draft. Sorry, not as bad..... worse. And if it means seeing Glennon with a full cast of starters and waiting for a franchise QB if/when he fails..... I'm a patient man.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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The Bucs signed Mike Kafka today.

Super Bowl, here we come!
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Gabe Carimi, Derek Landri, Michael Hill and Jordan Rodgers were cut today.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
Disagree completely. That evaluation is as false as the sky is green.

You guys are living in a drive-thru mentality here.


There is no downside to A) letting Glennon prove it, or B) lose it. Because if he proves he's a winner.... great, moving on. If he loses the job, fantastic. That means our record probably sucks, which means we can be in position to nab.... say...... Brett Hundley. Who just happens to be a perfect.... and I mean perfect.... mold QB for Tedford and the offense he wants to run. Hundley reminds me a lot of Aaron Rodgers. And other than Jameis Winston and Kevin Hogan, he looks to be one of the best 3 QB's in 2014 and 2015.


Where Brett Smith is likely gonna be taken, or where it is being suggested here he be taken, there's going to be far superior talent to be had. Taking Brett Smith in Rounds 2 or 3...... that would be as bad as when we picked Dexter Jackson in 2008 draft. Sorry, not as bad..... worse. And if it means seeing Glennon with a full cast of starters and waiting for a franchise QB if/when he fails..... I'm a patient man.
That's great that you're patient, most people aren't, I know I'm not...even though I waited patiently for Glennon to show me something, anything that could say he is the answer at QB. So we wait for Glennon and he doesn't come through... so what's wasted? Oh, I don't know another year of the careers off two great players (David, McCoy). The window of opportunity isn't open for long...let Glennon prove it... okay, just as long as we have a competent veteran option and draft a 2nd/3rd day QB to compete in the long run.

As for Hundley reminding you of Aaron Rodgers, ouch, where'd that come from and in what way? The rocket arm, great speed, shaky accuracy far more impressive frame? Are you messing with me because everybody wants to compare some QB to Rodgers or do you legitimately see this? I see far more similarities from Brett Smith to Rodgers and I see far more similarities from Hundley to... a more mobile but smaller Josh Freeman (and that isn't considered an insult) but he has accuracy issues, a big arm, excellent mobility, and he's a playmaker that struggles with some of the finer parts of the game. That was Freeman in a nutshell when he came out...and right now, that's Hundley. Rodgers was a master of the short game with excellent accuracy and release, underrated athleticism, not great size, but a somewhat limited arm...sounds a lot more like Smith.

And BTW, if all or anything goes right this upcoming year, we won't be in position to draft a Hundley or Winston or Mariota.

And if Smith falls to rounds 4 or 5, we would be stupid not to pick him if we haven't already picked a QB.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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That's great that you're patient, most people aren't, I know I'm not...even though I waited patiently for Glennon to show me something, anything that could say he is the answer at QB. So we wait for Glennon and he doesn't come through... so what's wasted? Oh, I don't know another year of the careers off two great players (David, McCoy). The window of opportunity isn't open for long...let Glennon prove it... okay, just as long as we have a competent veteran option and draft a 2nd/3rd day QB to compete in the long run.

As for Hundley reminding you of Aaron Rodgers, ouch, where'd that come from and in what way? The rocket arm, great speed, shaky accuracy far more impressive frame? Are you messing with me because everybody wants to compare some QB to Rodgers or do you legitimately see this? I see far more similarities from Brett Smith to Rodgers and I see far more similarities from Hundley to... a more mobile but smaller Josh Freeman (and that isn't considered an insult) but he has accuracy issues, a big arm, excellent mobility, and he's a playmaker that struggles with some of the finer parts of the game. That was Freeman in a nutshell when he came out...and right now, that's Hundley. Rodgers was a master of the short game with excellent accuracy and release, underrated athleticism, not great size, but a somewhat limited arm...sounds a lot more like Smith.

And BTW, if all or anything goes right this upcoming year, we won't be in position to draft a Hundley or Winston or Mariota.

And if Smith falls to rounds 4 or 5, we would be stupid not to pick him if we haven't already picked a QB.


You still forget two of the most important things in a successful QB, though you touch on the third a bit. I don't know if it's on purpose, if you are just plain ignoring it, or if you simply cannot diagnose it. Whichever the case, it doesn't really matter.

Release, footwork and diagnosis. Along with the arm to make the throws and accuracy, but that's so obvious, it should be a qualifier.

That's the big 5-tool secret.

Those three things are why you are wrong on this Brett Smith kid. His footwork is awful. Awful to the point that his pro QB coach is going to have to re-teach him how to walk properly first. I have yet to see a pass thrown by this kid where he doesn't get his feet crossed up and then have to throw off balanced, from one foot across his body. Throws from clean pockets off the back foot, front foot, standing too tall to deliver and with an open throwing motion. Errors, errors, errors. That "finer" point, results in INT's and injured QB's in the NFL.

This release of his you keep talking about..... it's bad too. Just to double check...... we are both watching Brett Smith, the QB from the Wyoming Cowboys, right? Because the dude wearing the brown and yellow, it looks like a beautifully carved statue of brown and yellow. His release point seems to be anywhere on the right side of his body. Due to the wide variety of arm angles he throws the ball from, it results in a wide variety of wobbling on the ball, causing the passes to look like arm punts. Because the spirals are not clean, it is going to cause unnecessary drops. Watch..... I bet you his hands are small.

His diagnosis, reading of defenses, it needs work, as do most young QB's. He has moments where he's anticipating correctly and finding the weak spot in the defense, then too many others of indecision and then making something happen. Sandlot type play. That doesn't win championships in the NFL. It might be exciting for a quick minute and make fans hold their breath..... but it does not win championships. The reason that happens? The game is too fast, or he only knows the primary and secondary route options, or he's indecisive, or he just doesn't know what he's seeing in front of him. Pick one. They're all bad. And his problem is one of the above.



Insofar as Brett Hundley, he scores well in all those categories. A's and B's. He needs to work on a few things, and I'm glad he's stayed in school to do so. It'll do him some good. I don't much care for the offense he runs at UCLA (that gets a C, at best), but I can see enough knowing that he has just about every tool to run Tedford's offense very well. Just as Rodgers did at Cal.


Look, I know you're trying to be the first to "discover" a new prospect, and lay claim that you "found" him later on. But you're barking up the wrong tree. Move on. This kid has zero chance of ever winning a title in the NFL.


For the record, I hope that we do sign or trade for a vet to compete with Glennon the rest of the year. Not that there's much out there, but I hope we do get something of quality.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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I'm really starting to like Blake Bortles. Big hands. Great on the run. He can make the second play that the NFL is built on right now. I see a lot of Wilson in him... Just a much bigger version of him.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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You still forget two of the most important things in a successful QB, though you touch on the third a bit. I don't know if it's on purpose, if you are just plain ignoring it, or if you simply cannot diagnose it. Whichever the case, it doesn't really matter.

Release, footwork and diagnosis. Along with the arm to make the throws and accuracy, but that's so obvious, it should be a qualifier.

That's the big 5-tool secret.

Those three things are why you are wrong on this Brett Smith kid. His footwork is awful. Awful to the point that his pro QB coach is going to have to re-teach him how to walk properly first. I have yet to see a pass thrown by this kid where he doesn't get his feet crossed up and then have to throw off balanced, from one foot across his body. Throws from clean pockets off the back foot, front foot, standing too tall to deliver and with an open throwing motion. Errors, errors, errors. That "finer" point, results in INT's and injured QB's in the NFL.

This release of his you keep talking about..... it's bad too. Just to double check...... we are both watching Brett Smith, the QB from the Wyoming Cowboys, right? Because the dude wearing the brown and yellow, it looks like a beautifully carved statue of brown and yellow. His release point seems to be anywhere on the right side of his body. Due to the wide variety of arm angles he throws the ball from, it results in a wide variety of wobbling on the ball, causing the passes to look like arm punts. Because the spirals are not clean, it is going to cause unnecessary drops. Watch..... I bet you his hands are small.

His diagnosis, reading of defenses, it needs work, as do most young QB's. He has moments where he's anticipating correctly and finding the weak spot in the defense, then too many others of indecision and then making something happen. Sandlot type play. That doesn't win championships in the NFL. It might be exciting for a quick minute and make fans hold their breath..... but it does not win championships. The reason that happens? The game is too fast, or he only knows the primary and secondary route options, or he's indecisive, or he just doesn't know what he's seeing in front of him. Pick one. They're all bad. And his problem is one of the above.



Insofar as Brett Hundley, he scores well in all those categories. A's and B's. He needs to work on a few things, and I'm glad he's stayed in school to do so. It'll do him some good. I don't much care for the offense he runs at UCLA (that gets a C, at best), but I can see enough knowing that he has just about every tool to run Tedford's offense very well. Just as Rodgers did at Cal.


Look, I know you're trying to be the first to "discover" a new prospect, and lay claim that you "found" him later on. But you're barking up the wrong tree. Move on. This kid has zero chance of ever winning a title in the NFL.


For the record, I hope that we do sign or trade for a vet to compete with Glennon the rest of the year. Not that there's much out there, but I hope we do get something of quality.
We can agree to disagree here. I've already proven I can "discover" a great QB when I was hyping up Kaepernick like no other but that is not my intention. I want the Bucs to draft a QB that has the potential to run the offense the way it's supposed to be run. Obviously, I'm not "discovering" Brett Smith as he is listed in every reputable online draft site as a top 10 QB with many putting him up as high as #25 to the Browns or at least in the 2nd 3rd rounds.

The fact of the matter is, we need competition at QB and I think under NFL coaching Smith could be great competition. You don't, good for you. As for waiting on Glennon to see if he's the answer, after 10 years of not being a serious contender, we need a better back-up plan that to sit back and see if Glennon has the goods...the chances are highly unlikely against him (like they are every young QB).

As for Smith's hands... I have to assume Glennon has even smaller hands then because anything he threw down the field resembled a long snap gone awry, he has almost ZERO arm strength...I'm not sure where people keep seeing and writing about Glennon and his strong arm. Considering his spindly lower body and absolute lack of flexibility, it's not hard to see why Glennon has such a limited arm. Also, just like in college, Glennon was at his worst usually when his team needed his best. This little redzone screw-up was a very good barometer of him as a QB.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/12/01/mik...e-vs-carolina/

Lumbering to his left, the rush not too close behind, he's not going to be hit, and without being touched (on a beautiful rain-free day) he reels back and loses the ball. He reminds me a little of Testaverde in that he will do a few good things to think he is on the right track and then he'll take an inopportune sack where he should have gotten rid of the ball way sooner, throw 15 yards short into triple coverage, threw 6 yards shy of the sticks on 3rd and long, or lost the ball. He'll find a way to lose the game for you.... which brings me back to Smith and his competitiveness... he always found a way... to keep his lousy, terrible team, in ball games against much better opponents. Unlike Glennon, he didn't need everything to go right to make a play, he didn't require his teammates to play their A+ games for him to do his job... he went out, competed, and made plays.

No, his arm isn't great, no, his release isn't pretty (but it is fast), and yes, his footwork needs a lot of work, but if I had to have a QB to lead my team, I would take a Brett Smith-type over the Mike Glennon-types any day... and the NFL agrees. In the Super Bowl, Wilson didn't always have time to throw, he had to vacate the pocket, and that's where the big plays occurred. Being a pocket passer only in today's NFL limits what an offense can do against different types of defenses. Being able to move is the great equalizer...Smith can move, he can throw on the run, he is generally accurate.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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You still forget two of the most important things in a successful QB, though you touch on the third a bit. I don't know if it's on purpose, if you are just plain ignoring it, or if you simply cannot diagnose it. Whichever the case, it doesn't really matter.

.
This is what I enjoy so much about talking with you... is that even when you're being relatively nice (by your standards) you are still extremely condescending and pompous to the point that it seems your head might explode. Bravo!!!
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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So god-awfully wrong with your scouting.


The thing I have to accept at this point, and it's one you brasho have not brought up yet, to which I am very surprised, is that our current QB coach is THE guy who convinced and recruited Brett Smith to Wyoming several years ago. Marcus Arroyo. Now that means one of two things, and certainly one more thing. Arroyo is either in love with Brett Smith and wants to work with him in the pros, or he knows enough about Smith to be sure we're better off..... and he certainly has an opinion that will weigh with Lovie and Licht.

I am no fool to ignore such connections. Does it mean we'll draft Smith? No. Does it mean we won't? No. It means we have a guy in our room who will have a little insight, and the right connections and trust with the people who have been closest to Brett Smith at Wyoming.



And I still think he sucks out loud.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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So god-awfully wrong with your scouting.


The thing I have to accept at this point, and it's one you brasho have not brought up yet, to which I am very surprised, is that our current QB coach is THE guy who convinced and recruited Brett Smith to Wyoming several years ago. Marcus Arroyo. Now that means one of two things, and certainly one more thing. Arroyo is either in love with Brett Smith and wants to work with him in the pros, or he knows enough about Smith to be sure we're better off..... and he certainly has an opinion that will weigh with Lovie and Licht.

I am no fool to ignore such connections. Does it mean we'll draft Smith? No. Does it mean we won't? No. It means we have a guy in our room who will have a little insight, and the right connections and trust with the people who have been closest to Brett Smith at Wyoming.



And I still think he sucks out loud.
And I'm cool with your disagreement, just not the near constant condescending remarks.

That's funny that you mentioned that because I was reading just a few minutes ago an article about Arroyo scouting him: http://withthefirstpick.com/2014/02/...th-qb-wyoming/

Think what you want, his pro day comes up March 13, I will be very interested to see if the Bucs send a rep.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Some guys I've seen cut, I havn't really followed any of these guys but do you think any are worth a look?

Adam Carriker DE
Red Bryant DT
Vonta Leech FB

Also Darren Sproles and Cortland Finnegan were released, would love to sign Sproles and Finnegan seems like a high reward low risk sign.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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As far as QB's, I didn't read through that whole argument but I think Deadhead has a point about next years crop of QB's. At this point i'm totally cool with Glennon and signing a vet and then looking at next years QB's for our long term answer.
Everytime I look at who might be around in the 2nd round, Amaro - ASJ - A. Donald - B. Cooks - Beckham - T. Murphy - Jordan Matthews - Gabe Jackson (and thats just off the top of my head) I wouldn't pass on any of those guys for Smith or Garrapolo. Especially when we could probably get a developmental guy in the 7th round like Stephen Morris or David Fales who imo have just as good of chance in the NFL as Smith.
Smith in the 2nd is a reach, but in all fairness I have not seen a whole lot of Wymoing games either lol.
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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As far as QB's, I didn't read through that whole argument but I think Deadhead has a point about next years crop of QB's. At this point i'm totally cool with Glennon and signing a vet and then looking at next years QB's for our long term answer.
Everytime I look at who might be around in the 2nd round, Amaro - ASJ - A. Donald - B. Cooks - Beckham - T. Murphy - Jordan Matthews - Gabe Jackson (and thats just off the top of my head) I wouldn't pass on any of those guys for Smith or Garrapolo. Especially when we could probably get a developmental guy in the 7th round like Stephen Morris or David Fales who imo have just as good of chance in the NFL as Smith.
Smith in the 2nd is a reach, but in all fairness I have not seen a whole lot of Wymoing games either lol.
Hey, he probably is a reach in round 2, unless he blows everybody away at his Pro Day, which I don't think he'll do. He would be a very good developmental type pick in round 4 or 5 and if he pans out, great, if not, not big loss,

As for taking our chances with Glennon. I really want to win, this year, next year, past that. Having Glennon as our QB will not equate to wins. If we sign competition like McCown... he'll get beat out. If we draft a rookie in the first two rounds, he'll get beat out.
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Supposedly the team is going after Michael Johnson hard... he was my top FA from the start, even higher on my list than Greg Hardy. He fits what Lovie wants out of his RDE to a T. Simeon Rice 2.0, even down to the moderately productive last season for his previous team. He is a freak athlete, great frame, and tough against the run. If we sign Johnson, this defense is immediately a top 10 unit.

His speed on the edge and ability to turn the corner and McCoy's penetration up the middle will make the Buc pass rush scary once again.
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