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Old 02-26-2014, 09:16 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Donald doesn't fit into our system. Fewell asks his DTs to stack (2 gap) and hold the OL, they're not supposed to shoot gaps and get in the back field. To stack you need big guys with long arms who can engage and hold the point.

Donald is the exact opposite of that. He's small, and he has short arms. I like DTs like him (minus the short arms part) because I like pass rushers and attacking gaps, but in terms of fit with our scheme, he's not a guy who fits what we want to do defensively.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Donald doesn't fit into our system. Fewell asks his DTs to stack (2 gap) and hold the OL, they're not supposed to shoot gaps and get in the back field. To stack you need big guys with long arms who can engage and hold the point.

Donald is the exact opposite of that. He's small, and he has short arms. I like DTs like him (minus the short arms part) because I like pass rushers and attacking gaps, but in terms of fit with our scheme, he's not a guy who fits what we want to do defensively.
I am intrigued by Donald. I have to admit. I just not comfortable drafting a DT in the first round. That William Joseph draft did a number. All those busts for DTs. I remember Amobi Okoyo supposed to be some great DT at 19 years old coming into the league. Even he busted. So unless the guy is a top 5 pick, and even then that worries me, I am not comfortable with drafting a DT even though this guy seems really good.

I think for this draft and I have said it, my comfort level falls into these positions. In no order: OL, CB, WR, and TE.

If we got any of those positions I will be happy.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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I am intrigued by Donald. I have to admit. I just not comfortable drafting a DT in the first round. That William Joseph draft did a number. All those busts for DTs. I remember Amobi Okoyo supposed to be some great DT at 19 years old coming into the league. Even he busted. So unless the guy is a top 5 pick, and even then that worries me, I am not comfortable with drafting a DT even though this guy seems really good.

I think for this draft and I have said it, my comfort level falls into these positions. In no order: OL, CB, WR, and TE.

If we got any of those positions I will be happy.
Yeah I wish there were more pass rushers available but this is a weak 4-3 DE draft class outside of Clowney. It's not a good year to get pass rushers in our front.

I haven't studied Donald yet but he just doesn't seem like the type we go after, plus we're pretty good at DT so it would be a luxury pick for us.

I pretty much have the same list as you. I'd include LB as well, I'm a big Shazier fan, but I doubt we go in that direction.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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If Joseph walks I wouldn't mind DT.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Eh...I don't know man. It's not a huge need. And honestly I might rather have Nix. Nix reminds me of Wilfork.

I don't know. I have to study both. But I may not get to them, DT is not really on my list of positions to look at. I wanted to focus on CB, LB, and DE on defense and OL, WR, TE, and RB on offense.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I wish there were more pass rushers available but this is a weak 4-3 DE draft class outside of Clowney. It's not a good year to get pass rushers in our front.

I haven't studied Donald yet but he just doesn't seem like the type we go after, plus we're pretty good at DT so it would be a luxury pick for us.

I pretty much have the same list as you. I'd include LB as well, I'm a big Shazier fan, but I doubt we go in that direction.
He would be good in our system with JPP, Hankins, Donald, and Moore. You have a 1T and a 3T then. So I can see it working well. Getting pressure with the front 4 guys and such.

I just don't like drafting a first round DT. That Willie Joe pick annoyed me big time. That whole draft had DTs bust left and right.

Give me an offensive player. We don't have years to re-stock. I am still not convinced we can do this in 1 off season. I think this could be a 2-3 year plan max. So we need to fix the offense because even if the defense plays well, if the offense stays broken it can be very bad for the likes of the whole coaching staff, and even Eli.

I am angry that Reese wants to gamble with Snee and Baas. I don't think he cuts those guys. I think he probably wants to see if they can stay healthy and make 1 last run of it. IF that happens, then that's an assumption I believe will hurt us.

We have no TE, no RB, and our Wrs are okay. Cruz, coming off injury, is our lone home run hitter. We need to restock the shelves. So not sure I can handle a DE or DT in the first round.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I’m told Texas A&M receiver Mike Evans is a real possibility for the New York Giants with the draft’s 12th selection if available. The team is expected to lose veteran wide out Hakeen Nicks to free agency and there’s not much production on the depth chart after Victor Cruz and Rueben Randle. I’m also told if one of the top offensive tackles (Greg Robinson or Taylor Lewan) happen to slip to the 12th pick the Giants would look in that direction. Otherwise expect the team to initially look for guards in free agency.
http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9489


Interesting if true. Eli was best with a 6-5 receiver in Plax
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Interesting if true. Eli was best with a 6-5 receiver in Plax
Brandon Coleman. <3

I'm good with Evans if his character checks out, if he shows separation when I look at his clips, and if we know we can get a guy like Zack Martin in round 2 or a talented G/C in that spot.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9489


Interesting if true. Eli was best with a 6-5 receiver in Plax

Well we switched OCs and that's when Gilbride took over. We also had a very good running game due to a very, very good OL, where we could plug and chug different RBs and come out with good production.

Eli showed he can be fine with Nicks as well. Things went down hill when our OL went downhill. By then our scheme was having issues too. So I am not sold on another big WR. We supposedly drafted Barden to fill the void. Was that a knee jerk reaction to Plax hurting himself? Maybe.. But the guy rarely saw the field, and was never put in for red zone plays.

I am not entirely sold on Evans. I think he answered some questions at the combine. I'd rather have Ebron, and Gilbert than Evans. That's me saying I'd take a CB, defensive position, over an offensive one.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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So far I like Gilbert, Dennard and Roby as CBs, but I don't know how I'd rank them and what grade I have on them yet.

Roby's closing speed is unreal. Gilbert, I feel like he can be a sick press CB with good coaching, but his jam leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know if that's just him being a finesse player or poor coaching. Dennard, I'm concerned about his hips and closing speed.

So I need to see and study those guys in more detail, but as of right now I'm intrigued by all 3.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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So far I like Gilbert, Dennard and Roby as CBs, but I don't know how I'd rank them and what grade I have on them yet.

Roby's closing speed is unreal. Gilbert, I feel like he can be a sick press CB with good coaching, but his jam leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know if that's just him being a finesse player or poor coaching. Dennard, I'm concerned about his hips and closing speed.

So I need to see and study those guys in more detail, but as of right now I'm intrigued by all 3.
Gilbert can be coached up. That's why you have pro secondary coaches. I am not worried about technique in jamming, and arm placement. That stuff can be fixed. Same with the OL or DL when it comes to technique and use of arms and hands.

The question is can Gilbert play at a high level to warrant the pick? How does that speed and height translate at the pro level? Does he fit our system? If he is a press corner and we are asking him to play zone or off man, is he worth it? Let's remember Corey Webster was abused by Tim Lewis and his scheme. Webster's career took off once Spags came in and changed everything up. Since then Webster has been solid as a Giant. However, there was a time when Webster could have easily been cut. Webster was still at a time in Spag's doghouse but things clicked and he has been a good Giant.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Gilbert can be coached up. That's why you have pro secondary coaches. I am not worried about technique in jamming, and arm placement. That stuff can be fixed. Same with the OL or DL when it comes to technique and use of arms and hands.

The question is can Gilbert play at a high level to warrant the pick? How does that speed and height translate at the pro level? Does he fit our system? If he is a press corner and we are asking him to play zone or off man, is he worth it? Let's remember Corey Webster was abused by Tim Lewis and his scheme. Webster's career took off once Spags came in and changed everything up. Since then Webster has been solid as a Giant. However, there was a time when Webster could have easily been cut. Webster was still at a time in Spag's doghouse but things clicked and he has been a good Giant.
The athleticism is definitely there with Gilbert. I don't like how he gives too much space in off coverage. It's almost like he's too afraid of getting beat deep in off coverage and gives too much ground underneath. Even in crossing routes.

In press man, he has the speed, size, and hips to keep up with guys. He's so athletic he can play bump and run and not even bump them and still keep up. But his hand usage isn't violent, he doesn't know how to use them, and when he does press it's meh. I feel like he can be so much more physical than he is.

I feel like he needs good coaching. I still haven't observed him enough to understand if he understands route combinations and zone principles. I have some work to do on him still.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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I think my top preference at 12 is Evans but I don't think he'll be there.

We NEED to re-sign Linval. He's young, good, wants to stay, and is a leader in the locker room. 5 years, 40 mil. Take it to the bank, don't create another hole. Him and Hankins as the future. Boom.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I think the theme here is to get Eli a big target. Evans and Ebron got a lot of the giants attention.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I think the theme here is to get Eli a big target. Evans and Ebron got a lot of the giants attention.
I agree. What's interesting is that prior to drafting JPP everyone went down to scout the guy. I remember Pat K. calling him as our pick because of Ross and Reese going down. We did that with Ebron. Not sying he is our pick, but the fact that the GM and Director of scouting took time to personally scout him says a lot. Usually you leave it up to the regional scout, and game tape to evaluate.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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The athleticism is definitely there with Gilbert. I don't like how he gives too much space in off coverage. It's almost like he's too afraid of getting beat deep in off coverage and gives too much ground underneath. Even in crossing routes.

In press man, he has the speed, size, and hips to keep up with guys. He's so athletic he can play bump and run and not even bump them and still keep up. But his hand usage isn't violent, he doesn't know how to use them, and when he does press it's meh. I feel like he can be so much more physical than he is.

I feel like he needs good coaching. I still haven't observed him enough to understand if he understands route combinations and zone principles. I have some work to do on him still.
You can fix that space issue depending on how the coverage is designed. You see, stuff like that doesn't bother me. No prospect is perfect. The thing I want to know is if the stuff that's a con or negative, can it be coached up or polished? If yes, then you can invest in the player and draft him.

I am sure that's something Gunta can coach up. Fewell is vocal enough to get on him, and TC can teach it. So that stuff doesn't worry me Same can be said with OL. Use of hands and punching the breastplate or hand technique when locking on and duck walking the defensive player back.

All that can be coached up. That's something you see for individual work outs when you bring him in. You can ask him about that too during meetings, and ask the secondary coach what he feels and can that be fixed. We used to ask Pope stuff when it came to TEs. He personally coached or scouted Boss I remember.

So polishing players with small dents isn't a big deal. No prospect is perfect.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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There is going to be some interesting options in the back end of the first round, I wonder if we should consider trading up for the right guy?

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Old 02-27-2014, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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Evans is a big physical target who can catch in traffic. I think he would be just what we need.

I also like Brandin Cooks, he is a lot more than a speed guy.

some legit weapons and a solid Oline could really see us with an explosive offense.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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I want Cooks on every team I like, but I just can't get over him NOT being paired with a target over 6'. He also might be best suited as a slot guy and neither the Seahawks or Jets have that slot open. And the Giants probably don't either after Jernigan played well last year and how Cruz can excel there too. I'd probably still take Cooks though. He can win outside too. And 12 isn't too high for him.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I want Cooks on every team I like, but I just can't get over him NOT being paired with a target over 6'. He also might be best suited as a slot guy and neither the Seahawks or Jets have that slot open. And the Giants probably don't either after Jernigan played well last year and how Cruz can excel there too. I'd probably still take Cooks though. He can win outside too. And 12 isn't too high for him.
Jernigan is in a contract year and I dont see his prescence being an issue if we liked Cooks enough.

The biggest thing we need are receiving weapons who can get into the endzone which both Cooks and Evans can do.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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What do people think of Clemson WR Martavis Bryant?

He has been in Watkins shadow but he might be a very interesting option
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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I'm not big on Bryant, I do like cooks a lot tho.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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I'm starting to warm up to the idea of taking Donald at 12. He might be too good to pass up. Plus, if he doesn't fit the system who cares? You adjust systems to make up for it, plus who knows if we keep Fewell beyond this year anyway.

I need to study him more to put a final grade on him, but so far I see some Geno Atkins in him. And we all know how much I loved Geno.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Well again, it depends on who else is on the board. If there are better options at other positions then no for AD.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Look at the players likely to go early

4 QBs Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, Carr
2 WR Watkins Evans
1 DE Clowney
1 CB Gilbert
2 OLB Barr, Mack
3 OT Robinson, Matthews, Lewan


without any surprises (such as Ebron), at least two of those guys listed earlier will be available at 12

We are pretty well situated
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