Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-22-2014, 11:22 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Titletown USA
Posts: 9,886
Reputation: 1472737
J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default The Brady Rule? The Gronk Rule?

http://packersinsider.com/?p=6301

I understand football is a rough sport. It's brutal actually. It's not a contact sport. It's a collision sport. EVERYONE (kickers/punters aside) are going to get injuries. I get that. We can't prevent them all. Plenty are going to occur no matter what.

But there are some worse than others.
And there are some that can be prevented with improved technique/rules.

In Montana, Marino, Elway's time, hits into their knees were legal. Why?
Because guys didn't often dive into their knees.

That started to change, and when we saw Kimo Von Olfie turn the Bengals from contenders into pretenders, it raised our awareness.
Then when we saw the record-setting, 3-time Super Bowl winning Brady get his ACL ripped apart by Bernie Pollard, the NFL realized "hey this is a cheap, dangerous type of play we must stop."

So it became a penalty.
Luckily, I don't think we've seen a QB have his season end from one of these plays since that 2008 opener in Kansas City when Brady's season ended in the opening game.
The league may have gone too far as we saw a ticky-tacky call against Ahmad Brooks last year vs Brees Saints, change an outcome.

But better to protect the players and keep the good guys on the field and not in the hospital.

10 years ago, and more, the horse-collar was "part of the game" too. It was and always had been "legal".

In the 1980's Joey Browner snapped the leg of a Broncos RB, Gerald Willhite, ending his promising career, with a horse-collar.

Then in the early 00's, Roy Williams realized with his speed, he was going to be seeing a lot of receivers' backsides, so he perfected the horse-collar.

It got so bad, that they did put in penalties for it, but Roy didn't stop.
Then he finally broke Terrell Owen's foot in that Eagles Super Bowl season, and Williams got suspended finally.

Those rules were reactive, not proactive.

It's already too late to be proactive enough to save Gronkowski, Cobb, Keller, Ovie Mughelli, and Jordan Shipley. But there will be a handful of more serious knee and leg injuries this year unless the league once again ADAPTS to the horrific, reckless tackling we're seeing from more and more young safeties.

The league, the NFLPA, the Competition Committee OVER-reacted to the $$$$ lawsuits on the concussions and they have gone way overboard on penalties on hits towards the head.
When was the last time you saw guy's seasons or careers end from hits up high?

I can remember DeSean Jackson and Muhammad Massaquoi getting their heads bashed in.
And Anquan Boldin as a Cardinal got his face smashed by the Jets safety late in a garbage game in the end zone.
But those players didn't lose their God-given speed, their wheels, and they didn't miss seasons.

These hits into legs, knees, and the way these ***** young safeties "tackle" now against the bigger, or smaller, defenseless receiver DO cause serious injuries, too easily and too often.

I know most of you are all tough guys and think all hits should be legal, that the NFL is getting softer. It's not. You wouldn't last one drive out there.
But these kinds of plays have to be stopped.

http://packersinsider.com/?p=6301
J-Mike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 03:35 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,435
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Unfortunately, all rule changes don't turnout exactly as planned, the league banned heat shots for defensive players because of concussions, they now know how serious this injury is, plus the NFL was sued over the issue, so now they attack the lower body and we are seeing more and more knee and ankle injuries. I don't think you can stop it, if they try to outlaw hits at the knees and lower, you'll see scoring go into the 60 points a game range by one team, so the league is between a rock and a hard place.

Unfortunately, leg injuries are just going to be part of the game from now on, there simply isn't much they can do to prevent it and still have the American game called football.

The QB rules changed because of the # of passes QB's were making in the current game. Stafford throw for over 700 times a season and many QB's were approaching those #'s. Those #'s indicated that QB's were going to be tackled twice as much as in the older days and hence the likelihood of serious QB injures were going to rise substantially. They didn't need the rule change in the old NFL, where the running game dominated and QB's throw the ball generally half as much as they do today.

Over reacted to the lawsuit, you have got to be kidding, right. Concussions are cummalative and after years of playing football, the effects were devastating. Former players committed suicide to get from under the pain and agony or had to live with it for the rest of their lives. If the NFL didn't change the rule on head shots, there would be no NFL, period.

Your over simplifying the situation, there are things they had to do that weren't going to effect the overall product, the rules changes you are suggesting would dramatically change the game, Big, strong NFL offensive players, can run through body tackles all day long, the scoring in the NFL would jump substantially if that is the only area you could tackle a player, the games would be a complete joke, the scores would be astronomical and more serious, nobody would pay to watch it.

I just cannot see a way around those types of injuries through rule changes, unless you want to destroy the sport.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 07:36 AM    (permalink
igglefanz
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 274
Reputation: 21323
igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.igglefanz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ok gonna bite here on this one. This is a non issue and part of the game and as of protecting a standing or throwing quarterback vs a moving fast receiver is 2 different things.

On those plays of the 3 listed 2 of them were as much the quarterbacks fault as the safeties fault. The Cobb and Keller one the Qb is leading the receiver right into a defensive player and they are turning. That is going to leave the receivers legs very very vulnerable to a low hit and you want to lessen the impact of injuries like that then coaches and quarterbacks need to not run plays like that.

A quarterback needs to throw his player open not lead his target into a defensive back sitting right there. If a player has to leave the ground and or turn to make a catch with a defensive player behind him their chance for injury goes way up and this can be prevented on both ends by smarter quarterback play and play calling. This is no different then a quarterback leading his receiver right into a linebacker and him getting rocked on a play.


A player in rotation is very hard to tackle and is part of the factor of why they went low. If a defensive player hits midbody but just off center enough they will slide off the tackle and miss the play entirely. Also factor in that in today's NFL both receivers an tight ends are faster and bigger by a much greater margin then they were back in the 80's and the defensive backs have not matched up size wise for a few reasons.

Unlike headshots this is not a malicious act its playing the game and the only reason the concussion lawsuit happened and succeed was for the fact that the NFL tried to hide the known effects of concussions and didn't do what they should of done with that information. Players know the risks and have nothing they can sue the NFL on and talk of a class action lawsuit is pointless, silly and dumb.
igglefanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 09:26 AM    (permalink
J-Mike88
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Titletown USA
Posts: 9,886
Reputation: 1472737
J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Swearinger said after he blew up Keller's knee, ending his season and perhaps his career “In this league you’ve got to go low. If you go high, you’re going to get fined.”

Gronk will never be the same either, partly because his legs, knee will never be the same. “If I would’ve hit him up high, there’s a chance I was going to get a fine,” Ward said, via the Boston Globe
J-Mike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 09:48 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,691
Reputation: 1222489
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Players need to sign a waiver before playing in the NFL and the league needs to do a better job with providing partial lifetime coverage for football related injuries post-retirement.

The horse collar rule is a good one. Headshots should still be allowed as long as players aren't contacting with the crown of their helmet.

If there's better helmet technology out there the NFL should adopt it as soon as possible, but there's no way to legislate the game to be safer.

It's just a dangerous sport, probably one of the most high risk sports after race car driving and downhill skying. On a per play basis, American football is potentially the most dangerous sport in the world.

No amount of rules is going to change that.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 11:07 AM    (permalink
Breed
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: I Don't Give A **** Avenue
Posts: 1,178
Reputation: 74787
Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Breed is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Dashon Goldson will teach em how to tackle thus season. .
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ackling-coach/
Breed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 11:26 AM    (permalink
Rob S
Suck it Metsox
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark haired women and breakfast food
Posts: 24,955
Reputation: 4218066
Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Oh God dammit.
__________________
When I eat, it is the food that is scared.
Rob S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 12:34 PM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,613
Reputation: 2155248
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The league has adapted to the rule changes really well so far. We complain about it, but it's really not impacting the game in a negative way. I don't have a problem with them protecting the players.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 02:27 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Titletown USA
Posts: 9,886
Reputation: 1472737
J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
On a per play basis, American football is potentially the most dangerous sport in the world.

No amount of rules is going to change that.
Yep, but some rules do exist already to prevent some injuries.

No better reasons for rules than making it safer.
J-Mike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 11:39 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,691
Reputation: 1846834
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Wrap up.

Can't say I've ever seen a guy get flagged or fined when he wrapped up. I've seen A LOT of guys make legal hits that were flagged or fined but that's because they flew in for the big hit without wrapping up.

Wrap up... period.
__________________
phlysac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 08:03 AM    (permalink
J-Mike88
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Titletown USA
Posts: 9,886
Reputation: 1472737
J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Wrap up.

Can't say I've ever seen a guy get flagged or fined when he wrapped up. I've seen A LOT of guys make legal hits that were flagged or fined but that's because they flew in for the big hit without wrapping up.

Wrap up... period.
Preachin to the choir here!
You're right on the money......
J-Mike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 10:05 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,435
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Wrap up.

Can't say I've ever seen a guy get flagged or fined when he wrapped up. I've seen A LOT of guys make legal hits that were flagged or fined but that's because they flew in for the big hit without wrapping up.

Wrap up... period.
Football is still a very physical game played between very strong determined men and intimidation plays a huge part in success or failure. Injuries can come just as easily from simple plays as the big hit, at least since head shots were removed from the game. I've seen guys tackled at the ankles and knees in a very basic wrap up manner and the guys still gets a serious injury although nothing looked out of place.

Football is basically a game where you are asking one player to run full speed through a brick wall made up of huge men, injuries are going to occur and no amount of rules can ever change that short of playing flag football.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 11:26 AM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,691
Reputation: 1846834
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Football is still a very physical game played between very strong determined men and intimidation plays a huge part in success or failure. Injuries can come just as easily from simple plays as the big hit, at least since head shots were removed from the game. I've seen guys tackled at the ankles and knees in a very basic wrap up manner and the guys still gets a serious injury although nothing looked out of place.

Football is basically a game where you are asking one player to run full speed through a brick wall made up of huge men, injuries are going to occur and no amount of rules can ever change that short of playing flag football.
Absolutely agree. Injuries will happen. I'm speaking of defensive players stating they're torpedoing at knees "so they don't get fined."

Form tackling will still result in injuries, but at a lower rate. And no fines.
__________________
phlysac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 10:59 PM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,705
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I just want to make the comment that, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, etc, it was unheard of with guys like Gronk's size, heck Calvin Johnson, etc. have the speed they have, the strength, etc. Go for the legs seems like an easier way to stop the opposing player from scoring.
And 15 years from now, I'm sure Gronk would rather barely be able to walk than barely be able to remember playing for the Patriots.
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.