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Old 03-17-2014, 11:57 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Default A really good read...unless you're a Cowboys fan

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/col...-years-ago.ece

All about how Jerry Jones' ego killed Dallas.

Imagine how many times he'd have been fired if he were just a GM somewhere...

edit: no new groundbreaking info or anything, but it's the first time I've ever read every part of the story all in one place like this.

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Old 03-17-2014, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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**** you, Jerry.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Pretty well-documented, but Gosselin's the man and it was a good read to get his take.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Ah ha... it rises again! The good 'ole debate/story...

What if Michael Jordan didn't retire...
What if Kobe and Shaq didn't split up...
What if Barry Sanders didn't leave the game in his prime...

What if Jimmy Johnson wasn't fired....

Gosselin is terrible. The only thing he was good at is his Top 100 Draft board. His writing and football logic are humorous at best.

Jimmy Johnson leaving was not good for the Cowboys, but it's only a small part of the real reason why their success didn't continue and hasn't followed. People like to imagine that if Jimmy didn't leave then the Cowboys would have won 15 SuperBowls by now. That's a joke. The talent ran it's course. Period.

Cowboys won SB's in '92, '93' and'95. What really killed the continued success of the Cowboys was the implementation of the Salary Cap in 1994. Jerry has always been a great businessman, but he basically bought the talent he needed to win those SBs. Once the Salary Cap Era began, it killed him. Sure helped his pockets, but it really hurt the team's success.

We were hurtin' while paying out big dollars to a concussed Aikman, broken down Emmitt and a WR that had more mouth than game. There was no way to salvage the ending of that dynasty. Too much money tied up and nobody was producing enough to make up for it.

If baseball adopted the Salary Cap the same would be true for all the big money spenders. Stuck in salary cap abyss.

Salary Cap. Not Jimmy Johnson... is what ended Jerry's Cowboys.

Jimmy went on to the Dolphins... having full reign he did not fulfill expectation.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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D pretty much covered it.

Losing Jimmy probably cost Dallas ONE more SB ring. The salary cap ruined long-term success. It leveled the playing field after years of the "big boys" being able to massively spend.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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And what is the excuse today or for the last 18 years, oh yeah, Jerry again has Dallas in cap hell, forcing the loss of Ware and Hatcher. Jerry Jones is without any doubt, one of the worst GM's in pro football, if he actually worked for anybody but himself, he would have been fired at least 14 years ago. Last year was a perfect example of a very weak GM. He built up the team to be an effective 3-4 defense then fired Ryan and hired a Cover 2 defensive DC for a team that lacked the personnel to play a Cover 2. Now a year later, he gets rid of Ware and Hatcher and puts the team in a total defensive rebuild, while paying his QB a ton at an age, when the window of opportunity is closing.

Jerry is totally incompetent, he hasn't a clue how to build a winner, he is all over the place with no plan and his actions are destroying any chance the Cowboys have for success. His ego is leading to the total destruction of America's team.

What's worse, Jerry will likely own the team and be its GM for the next 20 years, that adds up to 38 years of total total incompetence. good luck with that.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad somebody is writing about this. This issue really fascinates me, because one of America's most storied franchises has been mired in mediocrity for almost a decade, has proven to be incompetent at managing the salary cap, and its seems like no one really cares. I say this fascinates me because if this happened in any other city in America people would be protesting, saying clean house, fire management. But in Dallas it's just the elephant in the room. Maybe it's because I'm younger, but it seems like the press doesn't talk about it a lot or bring it up anymore because it seems to be a waste of time to even bother. No change is going to come of it. It's not even worth discussing.

I believe that their are some teams that no matter who the coach or GM is if you go there you're not going to win a Super Bowl because of the culture or the way the owner operates the team. Washington is one of those teams, as is Miami, Cleveland, Oakland. Some other teams that come to mind but aren't as bad as the previous teams I mentioned but still have issues would be Tennessee, NY Jets, and Cincinnati. To me it seems like a big deal that for over a decade now and for the foreseeable future Dallas has been in this group of teams. And there are always Op-eds in the local papers saying how the GMs of these teams should be fired or the owners aren't good owners. But I don't see that with Dallas. Everybody seems to just ignore Jerry Jones and his incompetence over the past 10+ years. It's interesting because in some places the people either want the GM fired (Miami, Cleveland) or want the owner to sell the team (Oakland). Jerry is both in Dallas so fans pleas for either one would be futile. I guess this is why no one talks about it regularly like in other cities.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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And what is the excuse today or for the last 18 years, oh yeah, Jerry again has Dallas in cap hell, forcing the loss of Ware and Hatcher. Jerry Jones is without any doubt, one of the worst GM's in pro football, if he actually worked for anybody but himself, he would have been fired at least 14 years ago. Last year was a perfect example of a very weak GM. He built up the team to be an effective 3-4 defense then fired Ryan and hired a Cover 2 defensive DC for a team that lacked the personnel to play a Cover 2. Now a year later, he gets rid of Ware and Hatcher and puts the team in a total defensive rebuild, while paying his QB a ton at an age, when the window of opportunity is closing.

Jerry is totally incompetent, he hasn't a clue how to build a winner, he is all over the place with no plan and his actions are destroying any chance the Cowboys have for success. His ego is leading to the total destruction of America's team.

What's worse, Jerry will likely own the team and be its GM for the next 20 years, that adds up to 38 years of total total incompetence. good luck with that.
I don't get why you're so upset about it. It's really weird.

You're not even addressing the article. Did you read it? It talks about the ending of Dallas' dynasty being Jimmy Johnson's departure. Curious... How many more SBs do you think Dallas would have won with Jimmy Johnson as HC?

Forcing the loss of Ware and Hatcher? I'm sorry but keeping Ware at his price tag of $16M FOR 2014 ALONE was simply unjusitified without Ware taking a cut. I mean he only made $8M last year. Do double his pay as we witness the decline??? You thought that would've been the smart move? The old Jerry might have swallowed that up that $16M, but the old Jerry isn't in charge like he used to be. Nor is he the same person. 32 year old Hatcher at 4 years, $28M? Be honest. Was that a bad decision to look away from? ONLY the Redskins would give him that kind of deal. I don't know what story you're trying to spin but a lot of people are applauding the Cowboys for making those tough decisions in letting them go.

Jerry has his warts. I agree that letting Rob Ryan go last year was a terrible move. But as things go, there is always a good side and a bad side. The bad side was Monte Kiffin. The good side was Rob Marinelli. I've been impressed with Marinelli and look forward to him as our DC.

I will criticize Jerry when it comes to coaching hires and trades. But really, the player personnel decisions and the salary cap management is out of his hands. Stephen handles the cap. ...and the player acquisitions are group sourced decisions. I hear so much about Jerry the GM, but Jerry the GM Title is just a puppet. He always relied on those around him to make personnel decisions. Whether it be the HC or head scout, Jerry always followed their lead except on few occassion. Jimmy ran the show, Parcells/Ireland ran the show, Wade/Ciskowski ran the show, Garrett/Ciskowski run it now. It's not like Jerry does the scouting and does the picking and goes off his own like a normal GM does. We pretty much have had group decision on player matters.

Take last year.... Scouts had Shariff Floyd at the top of their board. Coaches didn't want him. Cowboys trade down. Jerry is happy doing the wheeling and dealing. The HC and his staff have the biggest say in the draft. Stephen has said that if there is not an agreement among the group that Jerry will be the tie breaker. So in the end Jerry will always get credit/blame, but to pin point him as the problem is not really as accurate as saying his choice for coaches was the problem. He's heavily influenced by those around him. Bill Callahan has hand picked OL. Marinelli has hand picked DL. That's just the way it is in Jerry's world.

Yes, he's a hands on owner, but I can deal with it because I know things go up and down according to our HC and Jerry won't let failure happen consistently without making change.

The Cowboys have won 3 SBs in 22 years, but haven't won a SB in 18 years. How does that compare to the rest of the league? Despite the struggle, we just had 3 straight 8-8 seasons but we've had a chance in Week 17 to get to the playoffs. I will take that chance every year. Maybe one year we break through. It's not like we've been one of the worst teams in the league during those 18 years. It's definitely a long time, but even the darling Patriots have struggled. Last SB was in 2004! Let me remind you the year is 2014. You do the math.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Those bastards prevented a mini-dynasty for the Reggie White/Brett Favre Packers from 1994-1997. M***** F******s.

Why couldn't that have blown up faster in Dallas!
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys have the best owner in the NFL, but the worst GM, which is why they are always 8-8.
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Hahaha where did you get that?
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Hahaha where did you get that?
NFL Memes. Definitely one of their funniest ones.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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I'm glad somebody is writing about this. This issue really fascinates me, because one of America's most storied franchises has been mired in mediocrity for almost a decade, has proven to be incompetent at managing the salary cap, and its seems like no one really cares. I say this fascinates me because if this happened in any other city in America people would be protesting, saying clean house, fire management. But in Dallas it's just the elephant in the room. Maybe it's because I'm younger, but it seems like the press doesn't talk about it a lot or bring it up anymore because it seems to be a waste of time to even bother. No change is going to come of it. It's not even worth discussing.

I believe that their are some teams that no matter who the coach or GM is if you go there you're not going to win a Super Bowl because of the culture or the way the owner operates the team. Washington is one of those teams, as is Miami, Cleveland, Oakland. Some other teams that come to mind but aren't as bad as the previous teams I mentioned but still have issues would be Tennessee, NY Jets, and Cincinnati. To me it seems like a big deal that for over a decade now and for the foreseeable future Dallas has been in this group of teams. And there are always Op-eds in the local papers saying how the GMs of these teams should be fired or the owners aren't good owners. But I don't see that with Dallas. Everybody seems to just ignore Jerry Jones and his incompetence over the past 10+ years. It's interesting because in some places the people either want the GM fired (Miami, Cleveland) or want the owner to sell the team (Oakland). Jerry is both in Dallas so fans pleas for either one would be futile. I guess this is why no one talks about it regularly like in other cities.
The press will never take Jerry on, he's too good at providing news, he talks a great game and in the end, that is all the papers and TV cares about, selling their product and Jerry makes for great quotes. If he was dull or unimaginative, the press would be all over him, but he's not. Jerry is a super salesman and he always keeps things interesting for the press, but the reality is cruel. They will never win another championship as long as he owns the teams and is their GM, just never going to happen.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I don't get why you're so upset about it. It's really weird.

You're not even addressing the article. Did you read it? It talks about the ending of Dallas' dynasty being Jimmy Johnson's departure. Curious... How many more SBs do you think Dallas would have won with Jimmy Johnson as HC?

Forcing the loss of Ware and Hatcher? I'm sorry but keeping Ware at his price tag of $16M FOR 2014 ALONE was simply unjusitified without Ware taking a cut. I mean he only made $8M last year. Do double his pay as we witness the decline??? You thought that would've been the smart move? The old Jerry might have swallowed that up that $16M, but the old Jerry isn't in charge like he used to be. Nor is he the same person. 32 year old Hatcher at 4 years, $28M? Be honest. Was that a bad decision to look away from? ONLY the Redskins would give him that kind of deal. I don't know what story you're trying to spin but a lot of people are applauding the Cowboys for making those tough decisions in letting them go.

Jerry has his warts. I agree that letting Rob Ryan go last year was a terrible move. But as things go, there is always a good side and a bad side. The bad side was Monte Kiffin. The good side was Rob Marinelli. I've been impressed with Marinelli and look forward to him as our DC.

I will criticize Jerry when it comes to coaching hires and trades. But really, the player personnel decisions and the salary cap management is out of his hands. Stephen handles the cap. ...and the player acquisitions are group sourced decisions. I hear so much about Jerry the GM, but Jerry the GM Title is just a puppet. He always relied on those around him to make personnel decisions. Whether it be the HC or head scout, Jerry always followed their lead except on few occassion. Jimmy ran the show, Parcells/Ireland ran the show, Wade/Ciskowski ran the show, Garrett/Ciskowski run it now. It's not like Jerry does the scouting and does the picking and goes off his own like a normal GM does. We pretty much have had group decision on player matters.

Take last year.... Scouts had Shariff Floyd at the top of their board. Coaches didn't want him. Cowboys trade down. Jerry is happy doing the wheeling and dealing. The HC and his staff have the biggest say in the draft. Stephen has said that if there is not an agreement among the group that Jerry will be the tie breaker. So in the end Jerry will always get credit/blame, but to pin point him as the problem is not really as accurate as saying his choice for coaches was the problem. He's heavily influenced by those around him. Bill Callahan has hand picked OL. Marinelli has hand picked DL. That's just the way it is in Jerry's world.

Yes, he's a hands on owner, but I can deal with it because I know things go up and down according to our HC and Jerry won't let failure happen consistently without making change.

The Cowboys have won 3 SBs in 22 years, but haven't won a SB in 18 years. How does that compare to the rest of the league? Despite the struggle, we just had 3 straight 8-8 seasons but we've had a chance in Week 17 to get to the playoffs. I will take that chance every year. Maybe one year we break through. It's not like we've been one of the worst teams in the league during those 18 years. It's definitely a long time, but even the darling Patriots have struggled. Last SB was in 2004! Let me remind you the year is 2014. You do the math.
My problem is that I'm a long suffering Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo fan, 3 of the rottenest franchises in NFL history. The Dallas situation is so similar it gives me the same pain. I loved the Cowboys during their hey days, expansion team, Landry and finally a winning tradition up there with the great teams.

I'm from Toronto and was a huge fan of their hockey team which won 3 consecutive championships in the late 60's, then the owner sold the team to Harold Ballard, a complete idiot who was also great for the press and it was another 38 years before they were significant again or at least getting close.

I can smell failure, I've had enough experience with it over a long span, Dallas is in for 30 odd years of misery and I feel sorry for their fan base, been there, done it and it never feels good.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Problem with Jerry Jones is that he's not consistent in regards to making decisions. Last year, he fires Rob Ryan and hires Monte Kiffin and switches the defense to a 4-3 Tampa 2 despite not having the players to fit the defense. In the same year, he extends QB Tony Romo to a HUGE contract.

This year, he releases WR Miles Austin, DE Demarcus Ware and allows free agents DE Anthony Spencer and DT Jason Hatcher to leave. Coaching wise, Kiffin is gone and Marinelli is now the DC. Thats a good and needed move. Only bad thing is bringing in another offensive minded guy for the offense (forgot his name) despite already having Callahan and Garrett.

So, basically last year, Jones was horrible in the decisions he was making but this year, he made good decisions. Austin was done, Ware was too much money, Spencer is coming off a season in which he only played in one game and Hatcher while having an excellent season isnt worth $7m a season. Letting all four of these guys leave was the smarter move as opposed to keeping them. Signing Melton to what is basically a one year deal was a good low cost signing. As long as the Cowboys can hit on the early draft picks, they should get better.

All Jones has to do now is eventually release Romo and Witten and completely rebuild. The worse part is that always being an 8-8 team, its hard to rebuild by drafting a QB because you're in the middle as opposed to the top of the draft where you can actually have your pick of a potential franchise QB.

Add in the yearly restructuring of contracts and its the same problem every year for the Cowboys. On the field, they simply have no discipline whatsoever. They're too nonchalant, too relaxed and laid back. Wont win that way.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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My problem is that I'm a long suffering Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo fan, 3 of the rottenest franchises in NFL history. The Dallas situation is so similar it gives me the same pain. I loved the Cowboys during their hey days, expansion team, Landry and finally a winning tradition up there with the great teams.

I'm from Toronto and was a huge fan of their hockey team which won 3 consecutive championships in the late 60's, then the owner sold the team to Harold Ballard, a complete idiot who was also great for the press and it was another 38 years before they were significant again or at least getting close.

I can smell failure, I've had enough experience with it over a long span, Dallas is in for 30 odd years of misery and I feel sorry for their fan base, been there, done it and it never feels good.
But you can't give me reasons why. Saying it's in your gut is not a selling point at all.

What specific decisions does he control that prevent the Cowboys from ever winning under him?
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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But you can't give me reasons why. Saying it's in your gut is not a selling point at all.

What specific decisions does he control that prevent the Cowboys from ever winning under him?
If you cannot see that he has no plan that is functional, that his decisions are all over the place, that his ego gets in the way of sound management, then you just have to learn to suffer with your team, because Jerry isn't going to change and neither will Dallas' fortunes.

How long do you need before you realize he is an incompetent GM, it's 18 years and counting, how many worthless season do you need to see, to understand your team is treading water at best.

What has he done to bring Dallas closer to a championship, for every good move he makes, he makes 2 bad ones, I'm sorry if you cannot see it, but you'll be spending a good part of your life defending a man who has ruined your franchise. Good luck with that.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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When Johnson parted ways, the NFC was stacked anyways. The 49ers were a power force, the Packers were rising up in the ranks.
I mean, if Johnson stayed there, do they somehow beat that 1994 49ers team? Do they beat the Packers in 1996 and 1997? Do they then beat those tough Broncos teams in the Super Bowl in 1997 and 1998?
I mean, it appears some people just automatically assume if Johnson stayed, they would've won 2-3 more Super Bowls in the '90's. However, that talent was aging, and teams were at or going beyond the Cowboys level during those years.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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When Johnson parted ways, the NFC was stacked anyways. The 49ers were a power force, the Packers were rising up in the ranks.
I mean, if Johnson stayed there, do they somehow beat that 1994 49ers team? Do they beat the Packers in 1996 and 1997? Do they then beat those tough Broncos teams in the Super Bowl in 1997 and 1998?
I mean, it appears some people just automatically assume if Johnson stayed, they would've won 2-3 more Super Bowls in the '90's. However, that talent was aging, and teams were at or going beyond the Cowboys level during those years.
I think Jimmy Johnson's draft strategy and team building model would have allowed them to prolong the success of the franchise. It didn't work for him in Miami because he was stuck with Dan Marino and couldn't find a successor.

The Patriots pretty much adopted Johnson's model under Belichick, and they've been to 5 Super Bowls in the cap era.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:45 AM    (permalink
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I think Jimmy Johnson's draft strategy and team building model would have allowed them to prolong the success of the franchise. It didn't work for him in Miami because he was stuck with Dan Marino and couldn't find a successor.

The Patriots pretty much adopted Johnson's model under Belichick, and they've been to 5 Super Bowls in the cap era.
Boy, did you ever hit it right on. Would they have won the next 5 Super Bowls, not very likely, but they likely would have won a couple more and been more competitive throughout the 90's.

Didn't think too many people realized what a problem Marino was for Jimmy, good call.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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Those bastards prevented a mini-dynasty for the Reggie White/Brett Favre Packers from 1994-1997. M***** F******s.

Why couldn't that have blown up faster in Dallas!
I also think that the Broncos had something to do with that.

If Jimmy stayed, and got Dallas to another SB or two around 1997-98, he would have had to contend with them, which would have been much tougher. The Broncos were not the Bills, who got very lucky the last two years they went to the SB. They were a legit force.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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But you can't give me reasons why. Saying it's in your gut is not a selling point at all.

What specific decisions does he control that prevent the Cowboys from ever winning under him?
We have gone over this song and dance in the Cowboys forum.

He is the ultimate decision maker on ANYTHING. Any decisions by his scouting department or his son(that you seem to think absolve him of those **** decisions) still have to be run by and convinced that they are the right move before Jerry signs the cheques.

I literally have covered why he's a terrible GM and a Terrible Owner.

Terrible GM because his GM decisions are poor to say the least. Whether it be coaching hires or personnel decisions.

Terrible Owner because he doesn't just "sign the cheque" he believes he should be apart of the process. Not only that but he values his own opinion soooo much that to get anything done you actually have to convince him that any decision you want to make(as a scout, coach or Capologist) is the right move.

Jerry Jones either needs to take a backseat or sell the team OR quite simply luck out on 2 maybe 3 drafts in a row. We aren't winning a Superbowl anytime soon with anything less then the above unless Romo carries the team through. Our coaching works against us and roster composition is quite simply not up to par.
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