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Old 04-23-2014, 07:28 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Originally Posted by Jomoz View Post
He has shown elite pass rush ability in limited snaps. Just because he hasn't started yet doesn't mean he isn't an elite player - injuries held him back in 2011 and system change held him back last year.

Look at a guy like Cameron Wake - he wasn't a starter until later in his career after being a rotational player and miscast in various coach's systems... and then turned into one of the best pass rushers in the NFL when he was given a chance to start.

All Graham needs is a chance to start.
Yes it does. Elite players start. Elite players actually produce. Graham just isn't elite or even a starter.
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Old 04-23-2014, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Yes it does. Elite players start. Elite players actually produce. Graham just isn't elite or even a starter.
So when Cameron Wake wasn't a starter, that meant he had no chance to ever be an elite starter in the future?

Graham led the league in pass rush pressure per snap in 2012 playing in a 4-3, and did well in limited snaps even in a 3-4 in 2013 where he was out of place.

Coaches are not Almighty Gods that know how to do everything.
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Old 04-23-2014, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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I can't wait for him to be on here in two years when Graham is out of the league and he'll cling to the fact he was still elite, he just needed to find the right team and no one ever gave him a chance.

But no need to argue with us. If hypothetically speaking Graham did start and hypothetically played above a 3rd down situational pass rusher and hypothetically every offensive linemen let him by without blocking him he could hypothetically be an elite player.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Extrapolate Rudy's stats.....

Mind blown!
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:06 PM    (permalink
niel89
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So when Cameron Wake wasn't a starter, that meant he had no chance to ever be an elite starter in the future?

Graham led the league in pass rush pressure per snap in 2012 playing in a 4-3, and did well in limited snaps even in a 3-4 in 2013 where he was out of place.

Coaches are not Almighty Gods that know how to do everything.
Wake was a start in his second year back in the NFL after being behind Jason Taylor and Joey Porter in his first year. Wake second year had more sacks than Grahams career. Wake is a good player; Graham isn't close to him.

3 sacks last year isn't good. Graham has had many chances to make an impact and hasn't. You can make all the excuses and per snap arguments you want, but at the end of the day he is a back up and doesn't produce.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I thought this thread was about hypothetical championships
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 04-23-2014, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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I thought this thread was about hypothetical championships
Its really about all the hypothetical times thumper has been right about something, which is jist about as good as really being right about something
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Its really about all the hypothetical times thumper has been right about something, which is jist about as good as really being right about something
.16, right?
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 04-23-2014, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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I thought this thread was about hypothetical championships
Hypothetical sacks also.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:23 AM    (permalink
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So when Cameron Wake wasn't a starter, that meant he had no chance to ever be an elite starter in the future?

Graham led the league in pass rush pressure per snap in 2012 playing in a 4-3, and did well in limited snaps even in a 3-4 in 2013 where he was out of place.

Coaches are not Almighty Gods that know how to do everything.
Eh, Wake was an undrafted player who didn't make it through camp for the Giants then went to Canada where he absolutely blew up.

When he joined the Dolphins he played as a rotational guy and still had as many sacks in that year as Graham has had in his best year.

These two situations could not be any different. Wake was guaranteed nothing and was basically brought in as a guy off the street who became one of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

Graham was a high first round draft pick who couldn't crack the lineup. And don't make it sound like the Eagles played him out of position his whole career because they didn't, he just couldn't beat out Trent Cole or Jason Babin.

Face it, if Brandon Graham was as good as you say he would have shown it by now
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:49 AM    (permalink
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I thought this thread was about hypothetical championships
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Hypothetical sacks also.
As the old saying goes, hypothetical defense wins hypothetical championships.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Graham...

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Old 04-24-2014, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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As the hypothetical old saying goes, hypothetical defense wins hypothetical championships.
Fixed this.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 04-24-2014, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Hypothetical sacks also.
Whatever happened to the hypothetical cutting of Mike Vick so that Kevin Kolb could win the hypothetical MVP?

Thumper was on Kolb's nutz HARD.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Whatever happened to the hypothetical cutting of Mike Vick so that Kevin Kolb could win the hypothetical MVP?

Thumper was on Kolb's nutz HARD.
Hypothetically that all did happen. Probably was one of the Eagles' hypothetical championship years.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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I don't usually declare threads "over," but... this is pretty much as far as this conversation needs to go.
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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There is nothing as satisfying as playing pickup ball at the park, hitting the "captain" shot, and hand picking the best team, even if we go on to lose all day. So satisfying.
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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If you really want to see how unlucky the Eagles have been, you should calculate how many (hypothetical)^2 championships the hypothetical Eagles have.
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:28 AM    (permalink
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:56 AM    (permalink
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I think everyone is completely missing the point. It's not about "luck", it's about showing which teams underachieved. The Eagles of the early 2000s weren't unlucky, they didn't win a Superbowl because they played crappy in key spots.

The Browns of the 80s weren't unlucky they didn't make a Superbowl. They didn't make a Superbowl because they did stupid stuff like fumble at the goaline.

You could say that when a team plays badly and wins because their opponent plays even worse, that they are lucky. They weren't lucky to win based on how both teams played, they were just fortunate the other guy sucked more that day.
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Old 05-04-2014, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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As the old saying goes, hypothetical defense wins hypothetical championships.
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Hypothetically that all did happen. Probably was one of the Eagles' hypothetical championship years.
They did lose a hypothetical championship to the broncos a few years back when hypothetical Tim Tebow threw a hypothetical accurate spiral. They only made it though because the packers suffered my hypothetical injuries that year, or theyd have all the hypothetical championships.



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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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