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Old 05-01-2014, 05:40 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Default AntoinCD's Final Big Board

1. Jadeveon Clowney, DE South Carolina
2. Khalil Mack, LB Buffalo
3. Greg Robinson, OT Auburn
4. Jake Matthews, OT Texas A&M
5. Sammy Watkins, WR Clemson
6. Mike Evans, WR Texas A&M
7. Teddy Bridgewater, QB Louisville
8. Darqueze Dennard, CB Michigan State
9. Aaron Donald, DT Pittsburgh
10. Ra’Shede Hageman, DT Minnesota
11. Kyle Fuller, CB Virginia Tech
12. Justin Gilbert, CB Oklahoma State
13. Odell Beckham Jr, WR LSU
14. Ryan Shazier, LB Ohio State
15. Taylor Lewan, OT Michigan
16. Zack Martin, OL Notre Dame
17. Johnny Manziel, QB Texas A&M
18. Anthony Barr, LB UCLA
19. Ha’Sean Clinton-Dix, S Alabama
20. CJ Mosley, LB Alabama
21. Jimmie Ward, S NIU
22. Eric Ebron, TE UNC
23. Louis Nix III, DT Notre Dame
24. Xavier Sua’Filo, OG UCLA
25. Marqise Lee, WR USC
26. Dominique Easley, DT Florida
27. Blake Bortles, QB UCF
28. Brandin Cooks, WR Oregon State
29. Jason Verrett, CB TCU
30. Dee Ford, DE Auburn
31. Bradley Roby, CB Ohio State
32. Calvin Pryor, S Louisville
33. Kony Ealy, DE Missouri
34. Cody Latimer, WR Indiana
35. Joel Bitonio, OL Nevada
36. Chris Borland, LB Wisconsin
37. Telvin Smith, LB FSU
38. Deone Bucannon, S Washington State
39. Jace Amaro, TE Texas Tech
40. Morgan Moses, OT Virginia
41. Derek Carr, QB Fresno State
42. Timmy Jernigan, DT FSU
43. Weston Richburg, OC Colorado State
44. Cyrus Kouandjio, OT Alabama
45. Davante Adams, WR Fresno State
46. Carlos Hyde, RB Ohio State
47. Bruce Ellingotn, WR South Carolina
48. Terrance Brooks, S FSU
49. Demarcus Lawrence, DE Boise State
50. Zach Mettenberger, QB LSU
51. Donte Moncrief, WR Ole Miss
52. Jeremy Hill, RB LSU
53. Troy Niklas, TE Notre Dame
54. Jimmy Garrapolo, QB Eastern Illinois
55. Mike Martin, OC USC
56. Stephon Tuitt, DE Notre Dame
57. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE Washington
58. Jordan Matthews, WR Vanderbilt
59. Lamarcus Joyner, S FSU
60. Jarvis Landry, WR LSU
61. Scott Crichton, DE Oregon State
62. Gabe Jackson, OG Mississippi State
63. Kyle Van Noy, LB BYU
64. Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB Nebraska
65. Jeremiah Attoachu, LB Georgia Tech
66. Tre Mason, RB Auburn
67. Bashaud Breeland, CB Clemson
68. Ja’Waun James, OT Tennessee
69. Kelvin Benjamin, WR FSU
70. AJ McCarron, QB Alabama
71. Allen Robinson, WR Penn State
72. Paul Richardson, WR Colorado
73. Tom Savage, QB Pittsburgh
74. Cameron Fleming, OT Stanford
75. Dion Bailey, S USC
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:59 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Everybody's ranking will be tested this year on where you place Manziel. If he goes top 5, or even #1 overall, your ranking for the most part will stink. If he falls on draft day, your ranking will be solid.

I'm a huge supporter of Manziel because he has the 2 ingredients that I look for in a QB no matter what style he plays. 1) a solid pro arm, 2) solid intangibles and so I fully expect him to be a very high pick and have great success at the next level if he can stay healthy.

Based on that, I cannot give you anything more than a C+, but if you are correct on Manziel then you deserve a very high ranking. Ditto on Bridgewater and Bortles.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Everybody's ranking will be tested this year on where you place Manziel. If he goes top 5, or even #1 overall, your ranking for the most part will stink. If he falls on draft day, your ranking will be solid.

I'm a huge supporter of Manziel because he has the 2 ingredients that I look for in a QB no matter what style he plays. 1) a solid pro arm, 2) solid intangibles and so I fully expect him to be a very high pick and have great success at the next level if he can stay healthy.

Based on that, I cannot give you anything more than a C+, but if you are correct on Manziel then you deserve a very high ranking. Ditto on Bridgewater and Bortles.
They're HIS rankings. He's not just projecting where they'll go in the draft. Everybody has their players that they like more than most for whatever reason. If we just wanted to guess what the majority of people felt about these guys we'd just go to NFL.com and read their mocks. By your logic anybody that had Russell Wilson as a top 5 player on their boards in 2012 was an idiot and anybody who didn't have Jamarcus Russell as a top 10 player was also dumb. NFL teams are not infallible. Most people expect that Manziel will be a high pick but that doesn't mean they think it's a good idea.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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They're HIS rankings. He's not just projecting where they'll go in the draft. Everybody has their players that they like more than most for whatever reason. If we just wanted to guess what the majority of people felt about these guys we'd just go to NFL.com and read their mocks. By your logic anybody that had Russell Wilson as a top 5 player on their boards in 2012 was an idiot and anybody who didn't have Jamarcus Russell as a top 10 player was also dumb. NFL teams are not infallible. Most people expect that Manziel will be a high pick but that doesn't mean they think it's a good idea.
Spot on.

There are two distinct skills in this game.

1) Predicting where prospects will be drafted - so just people who have connections to get inside knowledge. Huddle Report's mock draft and top 100 contests score for this.

2) Predicting how successful prospects will be as a pro - for which at this time there is no right or wrong answer. We'll need at least 3 and probably 5 years to decide who is right. Unfortunately there is no contest to score who is the best scout - which is why too many websites are basically the same in terms of rankings as they want to score high in their mocks/top 100's and real scouting is a skill not looked for.

So anyone who wants to put up different rankings, having watched a good deal of tape and trusting their eyes is more than OK with me - we need more of this and not people being critical when it doesn't match NFL.com's rankings. The way we are going all Draft sites are the same - how about the fact that there are busts each and every year and why not predict them? Or like someone who is probably going to be a day three pick? In reality I think people would be surprised how different teams boards are - it's just we only see the consensus type ones that NFL Draft Scout/Bob McGinn do.

By that logic Wes Bunting was a terrible Draft writer as he scored poorly in the top 100 contest every year - whereas in reality he was superb and is certainly very much missed.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:46 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by fredder View Post
They're HIS rankings. He's not just projecting where they'll go in the draft. Everybody has their players that they like more than most for whatever reason. If we just wanted to guess what the majority of people felt about these guys we'd just go to NFL.com and read their mocks. By your logic anybody that had Russell Wilson as a top 5 player on their boards in 2012 was an idiot and anybody who didn't have Jamarcus Russell as a top 10 player was also dumb. NFL teams are not infallible. Most people expect that Manziel will be a high pick but that doesn't mean they think it's a good idea.
Sorry, but I completely disagree. This is a draft site and when you post your rankings, you are giving your opinion on where players will be drafted not what they will do at the next level. Nobody in their right mind would try to predict what a prospect will accomplish as a pro, they can give their opinion and that's fine.

And yes, if a poster put Wilson in his top 5 he would be considered an idiot because 32 GM's passed on him at least twice if not 3 times. I cannot speak to Jamarcus Russell because Al Davis had obviously lost it by the time the Raiders drafted him, so I have no way of knowing if the other 31 GM's would have drafted him #1 overall. Russell didn't fail because of physical talent, he failed because his intangibles stunk and he went to a dysfunctional team in decline because their owner had grown senile.

Now, if you want to quantify your ranking like Scott does on occasion and let us know, your ranking reflect success at the next level and not where they will be drafted, that is perfectly fine, but AntoinCD didn't qualify his rankings.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Sorry, but I completely disagree. This is a draft site and when you post your rankings, you are giving your opinion on where players will be drafted not what they will do at the next level.
No. You're giving your opinion on where players will be drafted, rather than what they will do at the next level. But a significant portion of the people on this board are posting their rankings intending to reflect their personal grades on these players arrived at through their personal scouting experiences.

Not everyone is playing the same game you're playing.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:10 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Sorry, but I completely disagree. This is a draft site and when you post your rankings, you are giving your opinion on where players will be drafted not what they will do at the next level. Nobody in their right mind would try to predict what a prospect will accomplish as a pro, they can give their opinion and that's fine.

And yes, if a poster put Wilson in his top 5 he would be considered an idiot because 32 GM's passed on him at least twice if not 3 times. I cannot speak to Jamarcus Russell because Al Davis had obviously lost it by the time the Raiders drafted him, so I have no way of knowing if the other 31 GM's would have drafted him #1 overall. Russell didn't fail because of physical talent, he failed because his intangibles stunk and he went to a dysfunctional team in decline because their owner had grown senile.

Now, if you want to quantify your ranking like Scott does on occasion and let us know, your ranking reflect success at the next level and not where they will be drafted, that is perfectly fine, but AntoinCD didn't qualify his rankings.
You're right, this is a draft site. A site where we discuss the draft but also those prospects entering the draft, specific NFL teams, the pro game and college football (regardless of draft eligibility). There is also an off topic forum which has very little to do with the draft.

If you want a list of threads where people wish to put out their own opinions of where players will be drafted you are more than free to look at the mock draft section.

The title of this threat states that it is my board, not the Houston Texans, not the New England Patriots, not a combination of all 32 teams. It is my own rankings of these players. Very few people on this site will have access to the type of stuff NFL teams will such as character evaluations, medical reports etc. My rankings are based on what I have watched, and at that I am not trying to say I am an expert. I base my own rankings on what I see and base that on how i think they will do at the next level. This is a combination of how I see them play and widely available public knowledge. For example, Dom Easley's play warrants a higher ranking but there is enough doubt in mind over his knees that made me have him in the low 20s.

I have put these rankings here for discussion purposes but also as a record of how I feel about these players. For instance, I am higher than most on Hageman and have been for a while. If he doesn't pan out then I will use this as a learning experience going forward. On the other hand I am much lower on Stephon Tuitt than a lot of people. If he succeeds then I will re-evaluate why I was wrong.

I don't get the need for people to slam rankings or mock drafts because frankly nobody here knows anything for certain and no NFL team knows anything for certain.

As for the comment about Russell that is ridiculous. I can all but guarantee you that Jadeveon Clowney is not the #1 rated player on every single team's board. Each team will rank their own board based on how good they think the player will be and an evaluation of their own needs and current roster.

As you stated in your post I didn't qualify my rankings, so let me do that know. These are my rankings of the prospects as i see them. This is not a mock draft. This was put together to get a discussion started about where and why I rank certain players at certain spots. Let me start, I fully expect Tom Savage to be a second round pick, but in my opinion he is not one of the top 64 in the draft
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:35 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by ericzedwards View Post
No. You're giving your opinion on where players will be drafted, rather than what they will do at the next level. But a significant portion of the people on this board are posting their rankings intending to reflect their personal grades on these players arrived at through their personal scouting experiences.

Not everyone is playing the same game you're playing.
I agree if you state it so, but when I post my draft board, it is saying what I think will happen at the next level, that is what the draft is all about. The draft is their ranking by pro teams on what they believe will also happen at the next level, it's the final report card on a prospect.

Once a prospect is drafted and goes to training camp, nobody really cares where he was drafted, they only care about his ability as shown at the training camp, otherwise, UDFA's, regional Combine candidates and a player like Tom Brady would never make a pro team, much less become a star.

Unfortunately, while it would be extremely interesting to keep track of each posters thought on prospects, it takes around 5 years for their report card as pros is fully known and we simply don't do it except in our own minds. I can remember when I was right or wrong, but 5 years later I could hardly tell you who else was right or wrong.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:04 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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You're right, this is a draft site. A site where we discuss the draft but also those prospects entering the draft, specific NFL teams, the pro game and college football (regardless of draft eligibility). There is also an off topic forum which has very little to do with the draft.

Quote:
This site that you posted on is a draft site not a pro site, not a college site and not a topic site, it's called the '2014 NFL Draft Forum.'
If you want a list of threads where people wish to put out their own opinions of where players will be drafted you are more than free to look at the mock draft section.

Quote:
So, your saying your ranking don't basically reflect your mock drafts, putting aside things like QB needs. I would find that extremely doubtful, but if you say so, I accept it.
The title of this threat states that it is my board, not the Houston Texans, not the New England Patriots, not a combination of all 32 teams. It is my own rankings of these players. Very few people on this site will have access to the type of stuff NFL teams will such as character evaluations, medical reports etc. My rankings are based on what I have watched, and at that I am not trying to say I am an expert. I base my own rankings on what I see and base that on how i think they will do at the next level. This is a combination of how I see them play and widely available public knowledge. For example, Dom Easley's play warrants a higher ranking but there is enough doubt in mind over his knees that made me have him in the low 20s.

Quote:
Never said your board was anybody elses, I assume everybody worth posting their ranking, are all going to be different. I've always said that rankings and where they are drafted, do reflect their report card as a prospect and how we all expect them to perform at the next level, but we all know it isn't going to be close to 100% correct.
I have put these rankings here for discussion purposes but also as a record of how I feel about these players. For instance, I am higher than most on Hageman and have been for a while. If he doesn't pan out then I will use this as a learning experience going forward. On the other hand I am much lower on Stephon Tuitt than a lot of people. If he succeeds then I will re-evaluate why I was wrong.

I don't get the need for people to slam rankings or mock drafts because frankly nobody here knows anything for certain and no NFL team knows anything for certain.

Quote:
NFL teams know who they will pick when it is their time to choose, that is for certain. Heck, I only questioned your QB rankings because they are so different from mine, but I was clear that you could be right and I could be wrong, so I would hardly call that slamming your rankings.
As for the comment about Russell that is ridiculous. I can all but guarantee you that Jadeveon Clowney is not the #1 rated player on every single team's board. Each team will rank their own board based on how good they think the player will be and an evaluation of their own needs and current roster.

Quote:
Why is my comments on Russell ridiculous, yet you basically said the same thing in the next line about Clowney???
As you stated in your post I didn't qualify my rankings, so let me do that know. These are my rankings of the prospects as i see them. This is not a mock draft. This was put together to get a discussion started about where and why I rank certain players at certain spots. Let me start, I fully expect Tom Savage to be a second round pick, but in my opinion he is not one of the top 64 in the draft
That is the problem with posting a list with zero comments, nobody really knows your opinions on any of these prospects. I disagreed with you on the QB's but I hardly want to open another discussion on that subject, I think it has been pretty well talked out.

you rankings won't really be reflected in your mock draft??? I find that hard to believe, but I'll go check and if I'm totally wrong, I'll apologize.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:14 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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My point about Russell was all 32 teams will never have the same opinions, in fact many people within organisations will often disagree. I accept if my rankings differ from yours and anyone else's because that is normal and I will happily defend my position on anything. My issue is saying that ranking players lower or higher than where I think they will be drafted is silly. Once again that's what mocks are for. My last mock draft is completely different than my rankings. Mock drafts are for marrying up alleged value with team needs and anything I an hearing.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I took a look at your last mock and I can now confirm that your rankings are definitely your feelings about prospect and have little to do with where you think they will be drafted and if you had stated that in your post, I would have approached your ranking from a different point of view.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I took a look at your last mock and I can now confirm that your rankings are definitely your feelings about prospect and have little to do with where you think they will be drafted and if you had stated that in your post, I would have approached your ranking from a different point of view.
You don't even know what a Big Board is? One more time for the record, how long have you been doing this?


As for the Big Board... I think Hageman is way too high. To me, he has bust written all over him.

I don't think Brandin Cooks translates to the NFL level like everyone is expecting. I think he might struggle adjusting to the slot and I think injuries are going to be a major factor with him at the next level.

I talked a while ago about my surprise Dee Ford not being pushed up draft boards. I thought he was the type of player that got overrated. I had a second round grade on him, but every time I watched Auburn's defense this year, he just kept flashing. I went back and gave him a second look a few weeks ago, and I started liking him more and more every time I saw him. He has the ability to completely take over games as a pass rusher and I think he has more potential as a run defender than I initially gave him credit for. He has heavy hands and can dip + run the arch better than anyone in this draft. He's become one of my 10 highest rated players in this class. Now I might be overrating him, but he's one of the few guys in this draft after Clowney that has doubt digit sack potential.

I actually like where you have Telvin Smith. He has some of the best instincts of any linebacker and plays downhill. He's a real playmaker and I think in today's game he might be the type of guy that can start a tend of 225 pound linebackers.

People are going to look back at Jarvis Landry's 40 time the same way they look back at Aquan Boldin's 40. I had Boldin ranked as the #1 WR in his class - and that was a stacked class, especially at the top. Landry doesn't project to an outside player like Boldin so I can understand people dropping him to the second round, but the toughness and instincts he shows for playing over the middle? Landry has that better than any slot receiver I've seen at the college level. I have a Top 20 grade on him. He's one of my favorite players and I think he's going to outplay a lot of WRs that will go before him.

Consider me hooked into the 'Bridgewater is falling off the face of the earth' hype. When you look back and focus on his arm strength - there are a handful of throws that he struggles to make at the college level in every single game. His arm strength is a weakness / limitation. I've said it before, but I think you're looking at another Alex Smith type pro player (if he pans out). For some teams, that's worthy of a 1st round pick, maybe even a Top 10 pick, but I really think he's going to be more dependent on the situation he finds himself.

I actually think David Fales is a very similar prospect - he might have a better arm.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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You don't even know what a Big Board is? One more time for the record, how long have you been doing this?

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Not too many people's Big Board differ from their mocks and if it does they usually point it out.

As for the Big Board... I think Hageman is way too high. To me, he has bust written all over him.

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I started out thinking that way too, especially as he was in and out of the lineup all game long in college. You don't expect that from one of your star players. He definitely flashes power and explosion and will likely be drafted to play DE in a 3-4 defense. His Combine performance looks to me to have confirmed him as a first rounder, just think he's a bit tall to play DT.
However, I certainly don't see him as a top 10 type, way too inconsistent in his effort to rank that high.
I don't think Brandin Cooks translates to the NFL level like everyone is expecting. I think he might struggle adjusting to the slot and I think injuries are going to be a major factor with him at the next level.

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I completely disagree, I love his game. cannot see him getting out of the top 20, he's a far better prospect than Austin was last year.
I talked a while ago about my surprise Dee Ford not being pushed up draft boards. I though he was the type of player that got overrated. I had a second round grade on him, but every time I watched Auburn's defense this year, he just kept flashing. I went back and gave him a second look, and I started liking him more and more every time I saw him. He has the ability to completely take over games as a pass rusher and I think he has more potential as a run defender than I initially gave him credit for. He has heavy hands and can dip + run the arch better than anyone in this draft. He's become one of my 10 highest rated players in this class.

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The only reason I can suggest for his lower rating must be his inability to shift to OLB in a 3-4. The Combine is where a lot of LB prospects who played DE in college, are first asked to play OLB and I suspect he didn't flash well in those drills. And likely his individual workouts have just confirmed this.
I actually like where you have Telvin Smith. He has some of the best instincts of any linebacker and plays downhill. He's a real playmaker and I think in today's game he might be the type of guy that can start a tend of 225 pound linebackers.

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He certainly has a shot although he is likely drafted in round 3. Lots of smaller LBers succeed at the next level, just get pushed down because of their weight He needs a lot of work in the weight room, right now I don't think he uses his hands very well but he is excellent dropping back into coverage, so he should have a real shot to start for certain teams.
People are going to look back at Jarvis Landry's 40 time the same way they look back at Aquan Boldin's 40. I had Boldin ranked as the #1 WR in his class - and that was a stacked class, especially at the top. Landry doesn't project to an outside player like Boldin so I can understand people dropping him to the second round, but the toughness and instincts he shows for playing over the middle? Landry has that better any slot receiver prospect I've ever seen at the college level. I have a 1st round grade on him. He's one of my favorite players and I think he's going to outplay a lot of WRs that will go before him.
Bolden at one point was likely rated as the #1 WR in his class, unfortunately, he suffered a serious injury and ran his 40 at the Combine with a noticable limp, as he was still recovering from his injury, just wanted to show scout and GM's that he was healing nicely. Getting drafted in round 2 when you are still not 100% is pretty common on draft day. So, while I love Landry's game, I don't see the parallel to Bolden. Bolden at full health was likely a solid 4.50 guy and at 6'1", 223 lbs, he was a solid physical specimen.
Unfortunately for Landry, he's a much slower 40 guy who is just under 6' and only weighs in at 196 lbs., but I still like him, he's tougher than nails and somehow gets the job done through effort. Those types always have some success at the next level. However, it's doubtful he goes round 2.
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Old 05-02-2014, 05:30 AM    (permalink
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I completely disagree, I love his game. cannot see him getting out of the top 20, he's a far better prospect than Austin was last year.
I doubt you would being saying that if Austin was more productive as a first year wide receiver. Tavon Austin was so much better. It's not even close. If Austin couldn't produce more than 400 yards as a receiver I'd still take him over Cooks based on his special teams ability alone. Austin is so much more dynamic as a runner - out of the backfield even - that the comparisons are moot. They're two totally different players with Austin adding about three different dimensions to his game compared to Cooks' one dimension, which he hasn't even played in college.

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Not too many people's Big Board differ from their mocks and if it does they usually point it out.
Not everyone makes mock drafts. The two are very different. A Big Board is a ranking of the top overall players in a given draft. You know that, right? It has nothing to do with where a player will be drafted. You know that, right? They (mocks and rankings) should not mirror one another. You know that, right?

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Bolden at one point was likely rated as the #1 WR in his class, unfortunately, he suffered a serious injury and ran his 40 at the Combine with a noticable limp, as he was still recovering from his injury, just wanted to show scout and GM's that he was healing nicely. Getting drafted in round 2 when you are still not 100% is pretty common on draft day. So, while I love Landry's game, I don't see the parallel to Bolden. Bolden at full health was likely a solid 4.50 guy and at 6'1", 223 lbs, he was a solid physical specimen.
Are you referring to his ACL injury? He was well over a year removed form that injury. He missed his sophomore season. Dominated as a junior and then ran the slowest 40 time of all WRs at the Combine. I didn't watch the Combine that year, and I've never heard of this 'running with a limp just to show teams he was healing nicely' thingy until just now, and you're wrong a lot, so forgive me for thinking this never actually happened... in real life.

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Unfortunately for Landry, he's a much slower 40 guy who is just under 6' and only weighs in at 196 lbs., but I still like him, he's tougher than nails and somehow gets the job done through effort. Those types always have some success at the next level. However, it's doubtful he goes round 2.
Like I said, I wasn't comparing them as players, but in terms of really bad 40 times overshadowing tremendous on field production. Boldin had a much better frame and carried 215 very well. He was believed to be a potential #1 WR for a team. Landry is not going to be that type of player, but I think he's going to be one of the best #2 WRs in the league.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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You don't even know what a Big Board is? One more time for the record, how long have you been doing this?


As for the Big Board... I think Hageman is way too high. To me, he has bust written all over him.

I don't think Brandin Cooks translates to the NFL level like everyone is expecting. I think he might struggle adjusting to the slot and I think injuries are going to be a major factor with him at the next level.

I talked a while ago about my surprise Dee Ford not being pushed up draft boards. I thought he was the type of player that got overrated. I had a second round grade on him, but every time I watched Auburn's defense this year, he just kept flashing. I went back and gave him a second look a few weeks ago, and I started liking him more and more every time I saw him. He has the ability to completely take over games as a pass rusher and I think he has more potential as a run defender than I initially gave him credit for. He has heavy hands and can dip + run the arch better than anyone in this draft. He's become one of my 10 highest rated players in this class. Now I might be overrating him, but he's one of the few guys in this draft after Clowney that has doubt digit sack potential.

I actually like where you have Telvin Smith. He has some of the best instincts of any linebacker and plays downhill. He's a real playmaker and I think in today's game he might be the type of guy that can start a tend of 225 pound linebackers.

People are going to look back at Jarvis Landry's 40 time the same way they look back at Aquan Boldin's 40. I had Boldin ranked as the #1 WR in his class - and that was a stacked class, especially at the top. Landry doesn't project to an outside player like Boldin so I can understand people dropping him to the second round, but the toughness and instincts he shows for playing over the middle? Landry has that better than any slot receiver I've seen at the college level. I have a Top 20 grade on him. He's one of my favorite players and I think he's going to outplay a lot of WRs that will go before him.

Consider me hooked into the 'Bridgewater is falling off the face of the earth' hype. When you look back and focus on his arm strength - there are a handful of throws that he struggles to make at the college level in every single game. His arm strength is a weakness / limitation. I've said it before, but I think you're looking at another Alex Smith type pro player (if he pans out). For some teams, that's worthy of a 1st round pick, maybe even a Top 10 pick, but I really think he's going to be more dependent on the situation he finds himself.

I actually think David Fales is a very similar prospect - he might have a better arm.
On Hageman I am going somewhat on potential as he is inconsistent, however when he is on he is dominant. There is nobody in this draft with his size, power and explosion who can help at so many places. Really, if he is motivated he can dominate at the 1, 3 or 5.

I like Cooks and see him as a comparable prospect to Tavon Austin. He may well need to be schemed into space but he could be a game breaker if given room.

Dee Ford I do like a bit but I am really not overly impressed with the DE class outside of Clowney obviously. I worry about Ford's lack of length and bulk and think he could be controlled in the run game and if an OT gets his hands on him he could struggle to disengage. It's tough with these undersized pas rushers. Is he going to be the next Robert Mathis or the next Everett Brown?

Telvin Smith may be one of my favourite guys in the draft. I also think his style suits how the NFL is going. You don't want this guy taking on linemen in the run game but let him play "see ball, attack ball" and he will be good. I also think he could play some safety or in a big nickel package. Offers a lot of versatility.

I think Landry will be one of those guys who shines despite his lack of measureables. He has great hands, maybe the best in the class and finds a way to get open. May never be an elite player but will make some team in the 2nd or 3rd round very happy.

I still like Bridgewater but thought the hype train at the start of the year was a little over board. He has pretty good accuracy, stands tall in the pocket, shows toughness and a good football accumen. However he lacks the ideal physical makeup. I think he will succeed in the NFL but decision makers will be put off by his lack of ideal size and bulk, his durability and his arm strength. All of those 3 are very average. i think he can be a rich man's Alex Smith in that he will be a very good QB at getting the ball to the right guy but may never become a guy you want to put everything on his shoulders.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:31 AM    (permalink
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[quote=BigBanger;3639546]I doubt you would being saying that if Austin was more productive as a first year wide receiver. Tavon Austin was so much better. It's not even close. If Austin couldn't produce more than 400 yards as a receiver I'd still take him over Cooks based on his special teams ability alone. Austin is so much more dynamic as a runner - out of the backfield even - that the comparisons are moot. They're two totally different players with Austin adding about three different dimensions to his game compared to Cooks' one dimension, which he hasn't even played in college.

Cooks is already the best route runner among the WR's in the draft due to his quick feet, he has excellent hands and terrific speed, his only knock is his height and he is one tough cookie. He's a natural hand catcher who explodes after a catch. He adjusts extremely well to off target throws. He beats the press with his quick feet. He's very tough to cover in the slot, so I'm not seeing anything about being a one dimensional player. He's going top 20 in the draft and would have challenged Watkins and Evans if he were 3 inches taller.


Not everyone makes mock drafts. The two are very different. A Big Board is a ranking of the top overall players in a given draft. You know that, right? It has nothing to do with where a player will be drafted. You know that, right? They (mocks and rankings) should not mirror one another. You know that, right?

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Seems you don't know what a Big Board is either, the same as me. AntoinCD's big board isn't reflected in his mock draft, it is just his true feeling about a prospect indicating future success and has nothing to do with where they will be drafted. It confused me and and I guess it confused you as well.

Are you referring to his ACL injury? He was well over a year removed form that injury. He missed his sophomore season. Dominated as a junior and then ran the slowest 40 time of all WRs at the Combine. I didn't watch the Combine that year, and I've never heard of this 'running with a limp just to show teams he was healing nicely' thingy until just now, and you're wrong a lot, so forgive me for thinking this never actually happened... in real life.

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He suffered a second ACL injury and it was clearly reported at the Combine that he wasn't healed 100% and that he was still running with a noticable limp when he ran his 40. By his own admission he stated he just wanted to show pro scouts and GM's that he was getting healthy. I have found the quote for some other disbeliever before and if you want I'll search for it again. I don't believe the Combine could be watched back then, we only got the news after the fact. It just created the myth that he was a slow runner because people don't check the facts like I do.

Like I said, I wasn't comparing them as players, but in terms of really bad 40 times overshadowing tremendous on field production. Boldin had a much better frame and carried 215 very well. He was believed to be a potential #1 WR for a team. Landry is not going to be that type of player, but I think he's going to be one of the best #2 WRs in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I love Landry and there are other cases of slow 40 guys succeeding at the next level, Bolden and Rice are unfortunately built up as being slow runners when they never were. I'm not jumping on you for it, since it is just one of those myths that just keeps hanging around.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:31 AM    (permalink
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So, yeah...one poster here doens't actually have the slightest idea what a big board is. It's not like the definition has ever changed.

...and the claims about Anquan Boldin?

Oh, man. Oh man oh man oh man. Someone tripped the revisionist history alarm in a BIG way here.

Anquan Boldin did not run hurt. He was absolutely not limping; that is fantasy. He was a 100% healthy player who simply ran badly. He looked like crap in the combine catching drills, too; like he had hands of stone. He dropped **** left and right, which was the opposite of his tape (Bridgewater style). He also ran a slow 40 at his pro day: 4.59. He's never looked like an underwear olympics all-star, even on the best days of his life. I would looooooooooove to see a single combine report claiming that he ran his 40 with a limp. Just one single solitary reputable source (so, like, not just some random dude with a faulty memory ten years after the fact)for that would be great. I remember it quite well...you're not going to find one.

He was definitely never considered the top receiver in his class. No one on earth had him higher than the two guys who could do everything. Boldin ranged from the #3 WR with a late first grade to grades in the fourth round with a number of guys ahead of him...and yes, he was 100% healthy. He suffered no injury during or after his last year.

2003 was always a two-horse race at the top (75% cr/25% aj). No one came close to these two in anyone's rankings:





That's such a bizarre mistake to make. That's as bad as someone being like "Brian Griese at one point was likely rated as the #1 QB in his class" (the year of Manning/Leaf).

I know these things because I was actually paying attention to the draft in 2003 instead of merely claiming that I've been scouting players since 1863.

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Old 05-02-2014, 06:46 AM    (permalink
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On Hageman I am going somewhat on potential as he is inconsistent, however when he is on he is dominant. There is nobody in this draft with his size, power and explosion who can help at so many places. Really, if he is motivated he can dominate at the 1, 3 or 5.

I like Cooks and see him as a comparable prospect to Tavon Austin. He may well need to be schemed into space but he could be a game breaker if given room.

Dee Ford I do like a bit but I am really not overly impressed with the DE class outside of Clowney obviously. I worry about Ford's lack of length and bulk and think he could be controlled in the run game and if an OT gets his hands on him he could struggle to disengage. It's tough with these undersized pas rushers. Is he going to be the next Robert Mathis or the next Everett Brown?

Telvin Smith may be one of my favourite guys in the draft. I also think his style suits how the NFL is going. You don't want this guy taking on linemen in the run game but let him play "see ball, attack ball" and he will be good. I also think he could play some safety or in a big nickel package. Offers a lot of versatility.

I think Landry will be one of those guys who shines despite his lack of measureables. He has great hands, maybe the best in the class and finds a way to get open. May never be an elite player but will make some team in the 2nd or 3rd round very happy.

I still like Bridgewater but thought the hype train at the start of the year was a little over board. He has pretty good accuracy, stands tall in the pocket, shows toughness and a good football accumen. However he lacks the ideal physical makeup. I think he will succeed in the NFL but decision makers will be put off by his lack of ideal size and bulk, his durability and his arm strength. All of those 3 are very average. i think he can be a rich man's Alex Smith in that he will be a very good QB at getting the ball to the right guy but may never become a guy you want to put everything on his shoulders.
I just don't know where Landry will play. It's blatantly obvious he's a special football player and the type of player you want to have in your building. He has tremendous hands, and he's a tough, smart, gamer. You can't have enough of those. But when you are investing a 2nd or even 3rd round pick, especially this year with the strength of the WR class, you want to have a plan. He rarely gets separation and he's small. Small, slow, and not very quick or explosive is a bad combination and the odds are stacked against him to be a top-3 receiver on a team. Can he play the slot? I'm not sure. I think if he does he'll end up with Jason Avant-type production. Can he play specials? They have him running a 4.58 at LSU's pro day. I wish he confirmed that long speed at the combine but you see some flashes of decent speed - never the type you really want though. But he should be fast enough to cover kicks. He might make an excellent gunner. And if Landry did the things he does on the field at 6'2" 215, it would be a different story. But it's a hard sell. Great addition to any building, but I think teams want to do it later than the 3rd round. I think his draft slot will be telling. If he does go in the 2nd, I think that shows us the league has confidence in his athleticism being a more minor issue. Because he shows up big in the SEC.

I don't really like comparisons, especially for QBs, but Alex Smith is the guy I think of when I see TB play. But I think Smith throws the ball better. I also think TB has more of the "it" factor. I think with TB, you're going to get a guy who has the same type of impact. I just can't see him being that difficult to keep under control with his placement issues, lack of arm strength, and bad deep ball.
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