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Old 05-10-2014, 07:33 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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I love that they took Manziel, but no WR's is just a joke. Stuck to their board is plain ridiculous when it screws the team.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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I love that they took Manziel, but no WR's is just a joke. Stuck to their board is plain ridiculous when it screws the team.
But we werenít going to replace Gordon, IAC. That just wasnít possible. Even at the top of round two. A group featuring one of the second-round rookies and Burleson/Hawkins still doesnít inspire much short-term confidence. Gordon is one of the most dominant receivers in the game. Heís a complete coverage-changer. The best receivers available might have been able to halve Gordonís production from last season. Thatís including Watkins and Evans. The suspension is what it is. If true, itís a crushing loss, no doubt. But the Browns can still address the position with a veteran free agent. That said, perhaps the front office knows something we donít. Perhaps they believe Gordon can wiggle out of a lengthy suspension on a technicality. I donít know. Hopefully time brings more clarity to the situation.

So I agree with Dan. Iím glad the front office didnít panic and stuck to their board. If Bitonio was graded much higher than the wide receivers, then selecting Bitonio was smart. Long-term drafting beats short-term drafting. Now, I havenít seen any of Bitonio yet, but I like what Iíve heard. Dominated against Barr and negated his athleticism. Light feet. Mean, tough finisher. Versatile. Letís not kid ourselves. The right side of the offensive line is a need. If this kid is a starter for a decade at guard or tackle, itís a great pick.

Again, I didnít watch Kirksey, but inside linebacker is a need. The Browns were a terrible third-down defense in part because the inside linebackers couldnít execute simple coverage responsibilities. Kirkseyís got experience over the slot and good range. I donít care if heís just a sub-package linebacker and core special teamer, if he can cover a running back or a tight end on passing downs, Iíll be pleased.

With the small school prospects, I think West shows a lot of the traits to be a productive inside-outside zone back. Desir fits the bigger profile of corners that Pettine wants. No, the Browns didnít draft a receiver, but they still picked potentially productive players at very sensible spots. They had a plan and they didnít deviate. Thatís fine if their evaluations are accurate.

As far as Gilbert is concerned, Iím not too worried about his poor tackling. Having a cornerback that canít tackle isnít uncommon. Heíll succeed or fail based on the merits of his coverage abilities. Thatís the reality. There are plenty of corners in this league that canít tackle, but they still play regularly because they can cover. And, in that vein, Iím glad the coaching staff plans to use Gilbert as a press-man corner. Thatís where his potential rests.
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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I really like our draft overall, a lot of solid prospects who can contribute right now and a few good developmental players with upside.

However, Manziel had better be great right out of the chute, otherwise we won't be winning a lot of games. I think trying hard to trade Gordon indicates to me that they don't think he will get off easy with his suspension.

While I like our draft, to say it was hard to find a WR in this year's draft just doesn't hold water for me, WR was a very deep position in this year's draft, full of talent for at least 3 rounds and I cannot fathom why they would neglect the position totally, after all, they could have drafted Watkins at #4 and still have been in a position to really compete this coming season and not care what happened to Gordon now or in the future. We passed on Watkins who IMO, is a better prospect than Julio Jones, who we traded for an OC, and Gilbert just wasn't a top 10 prospect in my book. Too much boom or bust for my liking.

I just don't think you can build an offense around a Gordon, he's always going to find a way to screw the team during a season, which is why they tried so hard to trade him.

The way I see it, they took a shot at a franchise QB in Manziel and if he comes through, I really believe they could have challenged this coming season for the playoffs if we had drafted Watkins. Now, I'm looking at us as a possible contender in 3 years because our offense has no real weapons outside of our TE. So overall, I think they basically blew the draft.
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:39 AM    (permalink
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I really like our draft overall, a lot of solid prospects who can contribute right now and a few good developmental players with upside.

However, Manziel had better be great right out of the chute, otherwise we won't be winning a lot of games. I think trying hard to trade Gordon indicates to me that they don't think he will get off easy with his suspension.

While I like our draft, to say it was hard to find a WR in this year's draft just doesn't hold water for me, WR was a very deep position in this year's draft, full of talent for at least 3 rounds and I cannot fathom why they would neglect the position totally, after all, they could have drafted Watkins at #4 and still have been in a position to really compete this coming season and not care what happened to Gordon now or in the future. We passed on Watkins who IMO, is a better prospect than Julio Jones, who we traded for an OC, and Gilbert just wasn't a top 10 prospect in my book. Too much boom or bust for my liking.

I just don't think you can build an offense around a Gordon, he's always going to find a way to screw the team during a season, which is why they tried so hard to trade him.

The way I see it, they took a shot at a franchise QB in Manziel and if he comes through, I really believe they could have challenged this coming season for the playoffs if we had drafted Watkins. Now, I'm looking at us as a possible contender in 3 years because our offense has no real weapons outside of our TE. So overall, I think they basically blew the draft.
I donít understand. The Browns basically blew the draft simply because they didnít add a wide receiver?

No matter what happened, this team wasnít going to find a like-for-like replacement for Gordon. Even if the Browns hung up on the Bills and drafted Watkins fourth overall. Watkins is an explosive prospect, but Gordon is a transformational talent and one of the deadliest deep threats in the entire NFL. You canít ask a rookie to step into a pro offense and fill that role. Itís a hard transition. Like I said, a reasonable expectation for a rookie wouldíve been something along the lines of 60 REC/800 YDS/5 TD. Could Watkins eclipse those expectations? Perhaps. He still isnít sniffing what Gordon did last season though.

Would Watkins have made the Browns a better football team in 2014? Sure. The fact is a rookie receiver isnít the missing piece of the puzzle. The Browns have been so bad for so long that itís impossible to raise all aspects of the organization to a championship level in a single off-season. Will the receivers be a weakness? Yeah, it appears so. Right now, weíve got an aging veteran, a diminutive slot receiver, an inconsistent possession receiver, and a return specialist. On paper, itís uninspiring. I hope Farmer combs through free agents and signs a short-term option if thereís a viable candidate. Miles Austin is available. Donít know his contract demands, but he could be a solid presence if he rebounds from injuries. Both on-field and off-field.

Overall, the Browns decided that the value of Gilbert in a press-man scheme and a future first-round pick was better than Watkins. In hindsight, I wish Farmer pushed for Stevie Johnson over a future fourth in the Watkins trade. But Farmer canít just build the team with 2014 in mind. Heís got to exercise a degree of patience. Since Gordon sabotaged his market value, Iím assuming heís still a part of the teamís plans until otherwise indicated. Putting a number one/two tweener opposite him could be one of their chief goals for 2015. Weíll see.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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I like how we were aggressive instead of "letting the draft come to us." We targeted guys we wanted and took advantage of having so many picks. Getting a stud CB and adding a fourth and first rounder next year was about as good as we could do with the #4 pick. Great job to turn two potential top ten picks out of one and fill a big need with a great prospect. Manziel is classic boom or bust. The thing that bothers me the most about him is his terrible size. Will either turn our franchise around or just be another Browns QB dud like all the others before him.

Glad we stuck to our board. Getting Bitonio to solidlfy our OLine was a very satistfying pick. It is such a relief to have a good offensive line and talent at running back after the crap we put up with last year. West and Dessir were good picks. Kirksey is kinda n unknown to a lot of us, but he is super athletic and can cover, and I think will at least be a nickel linebacker who is solid in time. Our defense should be nasty with the additions of Gilbert, Dessir, Dansby, Kirskey, and Whitner.
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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I donít understand. The Browns basically blew the draft simply because they didnít add a wide receiver?

No matter what happened, this team wasnít going to find a like-for-like replacement for Gordon. Even if the Browns hung up on the Bills and drafted Watkins fourth overall. Watkins is an explosive prospect, but Gordon is a transformational talent and one of the deadliest deep threats in the entire NFL. You canít ask a rookie to step into a pro offense and fill that role. Itís a hard transition. Like I said, a reasonable expectation for a rookie wouldíve been something along the lines of 60 REC/800 YDS/5 TD. Could Watkins eclipse those expectations? Perhaps. He still isnít sniffing what Gordon did last season though.

Would Watkins have made the Browns a better football team in 2014? Sure. The fact is a rookie receiver isnít the missing piece of the puzzle. The Browns have been so bad for so long that itís impossible to raise all aspects of the organization to a championship level in a single off-season. Will the receivers be a weakness? Yeah, it appears so. Right now, weíve got an aging veteran, a diminutive slot receiver, an inconsistent possession receiver, and a return specialist. On paper, itís uninspiring. I hope Farmer combs through free agents and signs a short-term option if thereís a viable candidate. Miles Austin is available. Donít know his contract demands, but he could be a solid presence if he rebounds from injuries. Both on-field and off-field.

Overall, the Browns decided that the value of Gilbert in a press-man scheme and a future first-round pick was better than Watkins. In hindsight, I wish Farmer pushed for Stevie Johnson over a future fourth in the Watkins trade. But Farmer canít just build the team with 2014 in mind. Heís got to exercise a degree of patience. Since Gordon sabotaged his market value, Iím assuming heís still a part of the teamís plans until otherwise indicated. Putting a number one/two tweener opposite him could be one of their chief goals for 2015. Weíll see.

First, it isn't just in one season, our defense is contender level IMO, not the greatest but good enough to compete. Manziel is the type of QB who if he has success at the next level, he could be sensational right out of the gate, but heck, he needs at least some weapons for our offense to prosper. Our TE is looking at double and triple teams, which is hardly positive.

Watkins may not be Gordon but he is right up there in potential with an A.J. Green and we may never be able to count on Gordon, he's a real head case who even with all his talent, they still tried numerous times to dump.

We already had a shutdown CB to look after other teams top receiver, but we didn't have a top notch WR. When you are looking at a serious hole on your team and one of the best prospects in a long time at the position, is staring you in the face, that isn't a moment to trade out. You just don't pass on future potential HoFers for some bird in the bush next season.

IMO, the trade out of #4 guaranteed we won't be competitive for around 3 years, and that's if our picks turn out to be successful. Did you really want to wait that long for some real excitement in Cleveland???

I know, we are all desperate for this team to succeed and after so much failure over such a long period, we are prepared to hope that the new management team did the right thing and it will all workout for the positive, but I'm just not buying that this was the correct move. I simply don't understand how a GM who knows the WR corp is in serious trouble, can choose to completely ignore the problem by sticking his head in the sand and hoping the problem will just go away. Same old, same old for me, especially if the owner made the call on Manziel against the GM's wishes.
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Watkins is a great prospect, but Gilbert isn't chopped liver. He's just as good if not better an athlete than Watkins and plays a position that is harder to find great players at.....plus we get a first next year in addition. You act like the gap between the #4 pick and #9 pick this year was so great that adding a probable top 15 or even top 10 pick next year to move down just 5 spots wasn't worth it. That deal was a no brainer, this is not like the Phil Taylor situation where we were moving waaaay down in the first to give away a truly elite prospect.

The draft is about the future, not just the upcoming season. If we didn't stick to our board and reached for a need at the WR position we would've been letting one player (Gordon) dictate our draft board, which is not cool. They said Bitonio was clearly the top player on their board at 35, which is why they took him and not a WR that they really liked (Like Lee for instance).

Drafting for need is a big mistake. And I don't see how you could justify saying no to a future first and fourth round pick and an elite athlete/great cornerback prospect in exchange for Watkins. Your opinion of Gilbert is one thing, but the staff and most NFL teams' opinion of him is obviously much higher, and for discussion purposes, we have to consider him as a top 10 pick worthy cover corner.

Guarantee not being competitive for another 3 years? Are you kidding? If the QB play is good then we'll be competitive now. We have a fantastic defense and we added talent at OLine and Runningback to improve. We have a pro bowl TE. Little, Hawkins, Burleson, and Benjamin aren't field stretchers or pro bowlers, but they aren't that bad either. You can win with those guys temporarily until Gordon returns. If we go by Seattle's model, you can see that you can win on offense without much at WR. We have 10 picks next year including two firsts and two fourths to add even more talent to a roster with very few holes.
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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...I mean, look at it this way.

Let's say the first Buffalo gives us next year is a top 15 pick.

We get:

- Justin Gilbert (#8 overall in 2014)

- 2015 1st

(if it's a top 15 pick, a player similar in value to: Justin Gilbert, Aaron Donald, Odell Beckham Jr., Ryan Shazier, Sheldon Richardson, Star Lotuleilei, and Kenny Vaccarro).

Guys like JJ Watt, Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith, Earl Thomas, Jason Pierre-Paul, etc. have gone in that range in recent years too.

-2015 4th (a depth player or ammo to trade up a few spots in round 1 or 2 next year)

There is a fairly decent chance that Buffalo ends up with a top 10 pick again too if EJ Manuel stinks. That's what makes that trade even better.
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Old 05-13-2014, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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You guys aren't going to convince IAC that our lack of third down defense killed us in games last year.
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Old 05-13-2014, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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First, it isn't just in one season, our defense is contender level IMO, not the greatest but good enough to compete. Manziel is the type of QB who if he has success at the next level, he could be sensational right out of the gate, but heck, he needs at least some weapons for our offense to prosper. Our TE is looking at double and triple teams, which is hardly positive.

Watkins may not be Gordon but he is right up there in potential with an A.J. Green and we may never be able to count on Gordon, he's a real head case who even with all his talent, they still tried numerous times to dump.

We already had a shutdown CB to look after other teams top receiver, but we didn't have a top notch WR. When you are looking at a serious hole on your team and one of the best prospects in a long time at the position, is staring you in the face, that isn't a moment to trade out. You just don't pass on future potential HoFers for some bird in the bush next season.
Drafting to address weaknesses is one approach. Drafting to make strengths even stronger is another. One isnít better than the other. Both can build great teams.

I agree that the defense is further along than the offense. Of course, losing Gordon expands that gap. That said, thereís top ten value in pairing a shutdown corner with another shutdown corner. The Browns have a stout front, but it isnít a fearsome collection of individual pass rushers. Fielding two shutdown corners gives Pettine freedom to scheme more aggressive pressure packages. So if Iím the general manager, and the scouting department assigns similar grades to Gilbert and Watkins, and the defensive-minded head coach lobbies for someone he feels is an ideal fit, and Iíve also got the chance to add a future first-round pick, then Iím going to explore the idea. I understand the thought process.

It just depends on the evaluation. I didnít consider Gilbert a shutdown corner. I think thatís a projection. Iíve said as much. I think his flat-footedness (in off-coverage situations in particular) compromises his athleticism and smoothness. I think itís a recipe for growing pains. At this point, itís the coaching staffís job to correct those technique issues. Not to mention, it seems the initial plan is to use him as a press-man corner. I think that suits his skill set. Heís got the tools to win there. Then it becomes a matter of continued development. Iím sure offensive coordinators will attack the right side of the field with bunch sets and stacks. How will Pettine/Gilbert react?

And I wouldnít have complained about Watkins either. Iíve seen Shanahan install a lot of quick-hitters into an offense. Watkinsí explosiveness and run-after-catch threat wouldíve been a logical fit, too. Those aspects of his game translate as soon as he steps onto the field.

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IMO, the trade out of #4 guaranteed we won't be competitive for around 3 years, and that's if our picks turn out to be successful. Did you really want to wait that long for some real excitement in Cleveland???
I donít think Watkins is the sole difference between being competitive in 2014 or 2016.

At the latest, Gordon will be back in 2015. Adding a top five receiver is an immense offensive boost. Yes, heís unreliable. His latest positive means heíll be subjected to the most severe regulations of the NFLís substance abuse program for the rest of his career, if I Iím not mistaken. The NFL could administer a drug test once per week. I donít know if heíll be able to resist temptation forever. What I do know is that his value to Cleveland is much higher than it is to another franchise, so heís a Brown for the foreseeable future.

That doesnít preclude them from grabbing another receiver though. Farmer could prioritize that in 2015. What if, for example, he adds one of Amari Cooper or Nelson Agholor in the first round? Gordon/Cooper or Agholor/Hawkins/Cameron isnít a good group of pass-catchers?

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I know, we are all desperate for this team to succeed and after so much failure over such a long period, we are prepared to hope that the new management team did the right thing and it will all workout for the positive, but I'm just not buying that this was the correct move. I simply don't understand how a GM who knows the WR corp is in serious trouble, can choose to completely ignore the problem by sticking his head in the sand and hoping the problem will just go away. Same old, same old for me, especially if the owner made the call on Manziel against the GM's wishes.
Iím not just drinking the Farmer Kool-Aid. I believe he couldíve squeezed Stevie Johnson from Buffalo. There were strong rumors the Bills wanted to move up. Watkins made the most sense there. The same front office drafted Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin in 2013, drafted T.J. Graham in 2012, and signed Mike Williams last month. Itís clear someone was the odd-man out. If Buffalo wanted Watkins, Farmer had more than enough leverage to ask for a sweetener like Johnson. That wouldíve addressed the wide receiver position in the short-term and, perhaps, the long-term as a number two to Gordon.

As far as Haslam goes, I agree. I hope he didnít pull rank and dump Manziel in their laps. Manziel is such a unique prospect that the entire organization needs to be committed to his success. Even if it requires an unconventional approach. But heís calling him a backup quarterback in papers, so who knows.

Farmer/Pettine arenít Banner/Chud, Holmgren/Shurmur, Kokinis/Mangini, Savage/Crennel, etc. Iím willing to give them the benefit of the doubt before lumping them in with the rest.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'm going to let the season play out, but if it's another 4 win effort, I'll be pissed. I really think we were in a position to at least compete for the Division title if Manziel had produced, but with only one weapon, a TE. Well?????
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I just think it would really be dumb to take a WR and sacrifice superior value just for one season. No one would replace Gordon anyways, he led the NFL in receiving last year and is an elite deep threat. The draft is about long term not short term.

Gordon will be back next year at the latest, and well have all of next offseason to find a long term #2 WR and/capable insurance in case Gordon flames out again. Can't think so short term. Anyone we took in the draft would've been a reach on our board or in Watkins case a sacrifice of value by not taking a first and fourth to move down a mere five spots.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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I cannot agree, I have always believed that you finish last or close to it, to get the kind of stud that can be an impact player, do it a couple of times and with some luck, you have at least the potential to be a dynasty.

Our track record is trading back almost every time we have a really high pick and how has that worked out in the past. We are still a 4 win team.

This isn't long or short term planning, it is the basic rule that all successful teams use, no matter what sport you want to talk about. You do not trade out of a top pick unless you are faced with drafting a stud, your team doesn't need. i.e. the team has a franchise QB and is in a position to draft another franchise QB like the position the Rams were in last draft. That is the only justification a team has for trading back IMO.

This team breaks the basic drafting rules and that is why we have been so miserable for so long.

I don't care what anybody says, Watkins was a tremendous prospect at a position where counting on Gordon to produce a winner, is a complete joke. Gordon will never play on a winner, selfish players like him can put up great stats every year, but he will never play on a winning team. The GM knew this which is why they desperately wanted to trade him and not another team really wanted that character on their team.

I had really hoped that a new owner would bring some real stability to my beloved Browns, instead, it looks like the circus is still in place. I absolutely love Manziel, but who made the pick, the owner or his GM??? If the owner made the pick, what is the long term prognosis for our franchise to right itself???
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Listen to Cudders....guy is a beast
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Accumulating multiple high round picks wins out in the long run. Law of averages says half of the top picks will bust out. And the numbers get worse as you move down the rounds.

Regardless, I was not pleased at Farmer moving up to get West. There were plenty of other RBs had they stayed put and they would have kept more picks.

Same with moving up to take Gilbert from 9 to 8. That boggled my mind. If he was taken at 8, so be it. Trade back and get Varrett, Fuller, Roby, or Denard. I mean, the separation between all of those really wasn't that great. Trade back and get more picks.

I am getting annoyed thinking about it. Unless Gilbert really is an elite press corner and has a huge career difference between the other first round CBs, it will have been a mistake.

This years 5th was used by the Vikings to get David Yankey. We could have taken him or anyone else after him.

Same with giving up a 6th to move up around 15 spots to get west.

Not terrible moves, but I don't like them. I want quantity and quality.

But it's not my job.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Accumulating multiple high round picks wins out in the long run. Law of averages says half of the top picks will bust out. And the numbers get worse as you move down the rounds.

Regardless, I was not pleased at Farmer moving up to get West. There were plenty of other RBs had they stayed put and they would have kept more picks.

Same with moving up to take Gilbert from 9 to 8. That boggled my mind. If he was taken at 8, so be it. Trade back and get Varrett, Fuller, Roby, or Denard. I mean, the separation between all of those really wasn't that great. Trade back and get more picks.

I am getting annoyed thinking about it. Unless Gilbert really is an elite press corner and has a huge career difference between the other first round CBs, it will have been a mistake.

This years 5th was used by the Vikings to get David Yankey. We could have taken him or anyone else after him.

Same with giving up a 6th to move up around 15 spots to get west.

Not terrible moves, but I don't like them. I want quantity and quality.

But it's not my job.
I agree, the move from 9 to 8 is a mystery to me, seemed like a panicky move to me. The West move I'm prepared to wait to pass judgement on, he has the potential to be a real stud and I could see guaranteeing we get him. If he can be a #1 RB then it was a great trade, if he is only a second stringer behind Tate, it makes no sense.

I'm not really concerned about 6th and 7th rounders, I'd trade them every day of the week to move up for an earlier pick.

I'm far more concerned about Gilbert panning out, there are some real warts in his game, one of the worst tackling CB's I have ever seen, so he had better be real special in coverage or he could have the possibility of busting.

I absolutely love Manziel and I hope our coaching staff does as well. The only concern I have with Manziel is, can he take the pounding and stay healthy? Even here, while I love his ability, injuries could give him a rather short career.

I love all the talk about sitting Manziel for the year, if we lose our first 3 or 4 games, he be our starter and Hoyer will be on the bench, that's if Manziel doesn't win the job outright from the preseason.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Not a fan of Manziel. At all. Oh well. In Hoyer I trust.
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Not a fan of Manziel. At all. Oh well. In Hoyer I trust.
Well, I hope you are dead wrong because in Hoyer, I have no faith.
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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You guys aren't going to convince IAC that our lack of third down defense killed us in games last year.
Our defense played on third downs? I didn't notice.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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NFL: AroundTheLeague:
Lions-Browns the highest rated nflnetwork preseason game ever by 36%.

Wow.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Manziel will definitely make the owner a lot richer, let's hope he makes the team a lot better. Unfortunately, where are the receivers???
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I wonder what this team would look like with Kelvin Benjamin at #1 WR
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully Cameron is able to work through his injury this season. And Benjamin would look fantastic on this team while manziel rots elsewhere - what a waste.

I will say the Oompa Loompas aren't playing bad ball though.

Oh and by the way, since we are giving ourselves a glimmer of hope this season, it's only fitting we get blasted by Pittsburgh 38-17.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Enormous game for Hoyer and the team this Sunday. But yeah, I can't say I'm expecting a victory with all the injuries on the defensive side.

A quarter into the season the OL has really took to Shanahan's scheme. The run game is more productive than it's ever been. If Tate hadn't got injured early I think he'd be challenging Murray statistically. I was a big fan of West since the preseason. And Crow is a size speed guy that fits perfectly. It's early, but safe to say there hasn't been a more productive backfield since Mack, Metcalf and Hoard.

It's the overachieving passing game that's the real surprise so far. Probably best case scenario for Manziel. Longer he sits, the better. Hoyer's basically picked up where he left off last season. I'm still not convinced long term but for now I'm enjoying the poor man's Tom Brady.

And the underachieving defensive line is almost as big a surprise. I'm a big fan of Hughes and Winn, so I hope those two in particular can step up. Winn is out for now but had a solid last game filling in for Taylor. Rubin has been solid for us in the past but I doubt he returns next season. Taylor's a bit of an enigma, although, since Baylor, I've always seen him as more an under tackle than nose. D.Bryant is looking more an more like a bad signing.

Not really concerned about Haden. He's always been slightly overrated. Gilbert, however already has the makings of a bust. This is actually a huge game for him as well this Sunday. Kind of loving K.Williams progress. I remember him as a freshman at Pitt and I thought he was destined to be an impact guy. Then he disappeared.

A quarter season 15' Draft projection:

1. *Shane Ray OLB, Missouri
Huge motor and a consistent blazing first step with lateral ability. Everything else can be taught.

1. Brandon Schreff OL, Iowa
Pile on. Might be the #1 OL in this class but issues over his injury, age and position ambiguity might cause him to slip.

2. Rashad Greene WR, FSU
Tough, reliable, great yac guy and clutch. I'd take him in the first. Testing might not light a fire. Then again, I've seen youtube of him vertical jumping like a boss.

3. Henry Anderson DE, Stanford
Prototype 34 DE that might slide under the radar and be a great value pick.

4. *Eric Murray CB, Minnesota
Liked a lot the little I've seen of him. Plays press, has size and ball skills.

4. Todd Chandler NT, South Florida
He's got good burst and recognition to go along with prototype size.
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