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Old 07-31-2006, 02:36 PM    (permalink
DMWSackMachine
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This one isn't even close, at least on the personnel front. Dallas is by far and away the best in terms of players. Washington has been living off of the brilliance of Gregg Williams for the last couple of years. And let's get real here. Last year Dallas had basically as good a defense as the Skins, even though we were starting 3 rookies, 1 first year starter, plus dealing with a career ending injury to our defensive leader (Dat Nguyen), AND transitioning to a new defensive scheme which non of our players had experience in and our two best front 7 players were ill-suited for.

All of that, and yet we were a mere 3ypg away from Washington in defensive rankings with 2 more sacks and 2 less TOs.

As this poll demonstrates, at this point in time, there is every reason to beleive that Dallas will be the best in the division.
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Old 07-31-2006, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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This one isn't even close, at least on the personnel front. Dallas is by far and away the best in terms of players. Washington has been living off of the brilliance of Gregg Williams for the last couple of years. And let's get real here. Last year Dallas had basically as good a defense as the Skins, even though we were starting 3 rookies, 1 first year starter, plus dealing with a career ending injury to our defensive leader (Dat Nguyen), AND transitioning to a new defensive scheme which non of our players had experience in and our two best front 7 players were ill-suited for.

All of that, and yet we were a mere 3ypg away from Washington in defensive rankings with 2 more sacks and 2 less TOs.

As this poll demonstrates, at this point in time, there is every reason to beleive that Dallas will be the best in the division.
I don't know about having the best personnel. They are still starting 3 1st year players and a rookie again. They are very promising but still young. Not to mention a player who in my opinion can't replace Nguyen and is transitioning to a new scheme. And I don't trust Jason Ferguson at NT. The talent on defense across the NFC East is extremely close.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Silly Poll....its not even a horse race. The Boys have this hands down.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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I think moc had it right when he said, we will cause the most turnovers, but the Skins will give up the least yardage.


Texico from Mecico, you are offically the biggest homer on the board. Just to tell you.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Aren't you guys running like a 4-3 over or something like that?
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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The one thing that really makes the Giants no 2. on this list imo is the fact that our secondary is not that talented coupled with the fact that Tim Lewis's defensive schemes makes for horrible pass coverage. We have the best DE quad in the game (yup, quad, we got Kiwi and Tuck on the bench who both could start for some teams), we have a slowly improving UT in Joseph, great MIKE in Pierce and solid OLB core in Arrington and Emmons. We have tons of depth at LB now too. The NT is a question that will be answered during Preseason. We honestly don't know how good our NT is until we see them play. Everyone is buzzing about Jonas Seawright, he's been apparently "unblockable" but i gotta see it to believe it. Coffield at the very least will be a Clancy for us. Our DT duo isn't as bad as people think. Joseph should have a breakout year this year if he stays healthy, and hopefully Seawright becomes the NT everyone is proclaiming him to be.

But DMWSackmachine put it the best. Dallas has the best personell. Look what they did last year despite all the hurdles. And this year with Carpenter, theyll even be better. Ware is gonna have a big second year, and with that ball-control offense that Parcells will run, their defense won't be on the field for long periods of time. I might have some bias because I personally favor the 3-4 alignment, but I think its Dallas without question at least at this point in the year, depending on how the Giants secondary and interior line perform, it could be the Giants but right now its easily Dallas.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Aren't you guys running like a 4-3 over or something like that?

Yea, I think the plan is to have Arrington standing up next to Strahan more or less. I'd probably prefer him to play the WILL, but it will only aid the pass rush, which is obviously our strength.



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Old 07-31-2006, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Aren't you guys running like a 4-3 over or something like that?

Yea, I think the plan is to have Arrington standing up next to Strahan more or less. I'd probably prefer him to play the WILL, but it will only aid the pass rush, which is obviously our strength.



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We're pretty much using Arrington as a 3-4 Will in a 4-3 alignment. Expect alot of zone blitzes with him and Strahan, and alot of blitzes with him period. Its almost like we're gonna have 5 down linemen. He will either rush the passer or drop into a flat zone. Thats gonna put more pressure on Wilson to cover the TE, and the 2 other LBs to defend the intermediate. And by doing that, we will ultimately depend on either Madison or Webster to defend a WR man up with no safety help, and rely on Demps to provide safety help for the deep ball. Like I said, Tim Lewis's scheme will make for poor pass coverage.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.

:roll: I'm a homer that thinks the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl...moron.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:09 PM    (permalink
 
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.

:roll: I'm a homer that thinks the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl...moron.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.

:roll: I'm a homer that thinks the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl...moron.
no that makes you an idiot

:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.
I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.
Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.
Now while I agree with you that Dallas has the best defense, I disagree with you on how you rated the Giants defense. Our DTs aren't nearly as bad as people think. The Giants had the 12th ranked rush defense in the league with 4th stringers playing in our last 4-5 games at LB. Thats not bad. Joseph is better than people think, he just has health issues, and our NT position is overrated. I agree with you on Emmons, he's done. But we have solid depth to replace him. Nothing jaw dropping, but OLBs are somewhat overrated in the 4-3 anyway.

Yes our secondary isn't that good. Nor is our pass coverage schemes. But our pass rush will be dynamic, arguably the best in the league. And a good pass rush hides alot of weaknesses in the secondary. The SB champs had a joke secondary. The patriots secondary is a joke. That didn't stop those defenses from being great.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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The one thing that really makes the Giants no 2. on this list imo is the fact that our secondary is not that talented coupled with the fact that Tim Lewis's defensive schemes makes for horrible pass coverage. We have the best DE quad in the game (yup, quad, we got Kiwi and Tuck on the bench who both could start for some teams), we have a slowly improving UT in Joseph, great MIKE in Pierce and solid OLB core in Arrington and Emmons. We have tons of depth at LB now too. The NT is a question that will be answered during Preseason. We honestly don't know how good our NT is until we see them play. Everyone is buzzing about Jonas Seawright, he's been apparently "unblockable" but i gotta see it to believe it. Coffield at the very least will be a Clancy for us. Our DT duo isn't as bad as people think. Joseph should have a breakout year this year if he stays healthy, and hopefully Seawright becomes the NT everyone is proclaiming him to be.

But DMWSackmachine put it the best. Dallas has the best personell. Look what they did last year despite all the hurdles. And this year with Carpenter, theyll even be better. Ware is gonna have a big second year, and with that ball-control offense that Parcells will run, their defense won't be on the field for long periods of time. I might have some bias because I personally favor the 3-4 alignment, but I think its Dallas without question at least at this point in the year, depending on how the Giants secondary and interior line perform, it could be the Giants but right now its easily Dallas.
I can live with that, as opposed to the blatant homerism that the other guys were spewing before. You make some good points, especially with your DE depth (though Kiwi hasn't done anything to prove his value yet, and most considered him a mid 2nd prospect at best by draft day, but I digress). I think you are over valuing Joseph. He "should have a breakout year this year" has been the mantra every year since he came in as a first rounder, and he hasn't ever been better than average - and has been horrible at other times. Also, I appreciate the reports coming from your camp concerning Seawright, but it doesn't mean much until it at least shows up in preseason. Most people don't go from practice squad to starting lineup in one year.

Besides that, I disagree with some stuff you said, but they are certainly at least debatable, as opposed to being patently untrue like that other guy. I would still say that NY is last in the division on defense, although it will be interesting to watch Osi develop and LaVar try to fit in.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:15 PM    (permalink
 
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:21 PM    (permalink
 
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i was kidding and those curses are real
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I do point out the problem the Cowobys have at NT. The Giants have one as well. The difference is our defensive schemes. The NT in a 3-4 is so much more critical than it is in a 4-3.

I think people are really looking past the difference Arrington will make. Did you see what happened when the Redskins let him loose in the playoffs. Our secondary is a problem. However it was worse last year, and we still led the NFC East in turnovers despite it. Our pass rush will probably only improve with Tuck maturing and Kiwi being added. Not to mention Arrington. It will be hard to evaluate or defense, because it will probably be third or last in yards given up but lead in turnovers. Bend don't break. Tim Lewis' model.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys have the best roster from top to bottom.

I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Newman may be the top corner in the game right now, and he is certainly better than anything else the NFC East has to offer. Anthony Henry was amazing before he got injured last year. But the cowboys not only have the best duo of corners, they have four very capable corners. The other two being the vet, Glenn and the up-and-coming Reeves.

Roy Williams is still one of the best safties in the business, and with Watkins and Berialt impressing in training camp, there should be someone more gifted and more competent than Davis in obvious passing situations at FS. Watkins has some serious height, range, smarts, and leaping ability, which should translate into an excellent deep-zone defender for the Cowboys.

The redskins also have two very good corners in Springs and Rogers. The probowl corners that the Eagles had two years ago looked like anything but probowl performers last year, and I can't remember the last impressive performance by the Giants' CB's.

Both the Cowboys and the Redskins will have excellent LB corps, but I think that Dallas will have more-than capable players backing up the starters at every positions.

The line will be much more experienced with Spears, Ratliff, and Canty entering their second year, all of which are very good ends. Then add in the raw but extremely gifted Hatcher into the equation, and it looks like the Coyboys will have the best DE rotation in the NFL outside of the Giants, who are simply stacked at DE.

The division as a whole is rather weak at the DT spot, and Dallas is no exception. Fergy is solid but unspectacular,and I'm betting that neither Thomas Johnson or Montavious Stanley will match the lost productuion of Glover. But if I had the chance to swap DT's with any other team in the division, I don't think I would do it.

Lastly, Dallas has the big advantage of being the single 3-4 defense in the division. Not only that, but they play a much more straight up style of football which is markedly different from the elaborate blitzing defenses that make up the rest of the division.

On paper, Dallas should definitely get the nod.
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