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Old 08-03-2006, 09:11 AM    (permalink
 
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This cant be a serioius post..
I think it stems from the fact that the NFL put them up against each other Week 1 on the big NBC game.

I think it stems from the fact the giants are the biggest homers on this board.
Not really. I think it just still bugs the Skins and Cowgirls fans that we came away with the East last year, and upgraded our team just enough to probably still be considered favorites.

Lets see how you do with the same amount of home games as everyone else. Redskins and Cowboys are both better than the Giants.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:12 AM    (permalink
Smooth Criminal
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This cant be a serioius post..
I think it stems from the fact that the NFL put them up against each other Week 1 on the big NBC game.
Still there is no reason to say that Eli will do better than Peyton.

Tell you what, all of the Giants fans have been writing off Eli's problems saying he is young and still learning. Thats fine after 2 years but is that still going to be the excuse next offseason if he doesn't improve greatly this year?
I don't think so. The third year is always the big step in a QBs development historically if you look at all the greats. Not every young QB is put on a great team and is expected to just throw 15-18 passes a game. I'm expecting a big improvement this year and if not I'll be dissapointed. I'm not going to be happy if I'm waiting in year 6 for Eli to come around like Falcons fans are with Vick.
It will be very interesting to see if you still say this after Eli has another average year this year. Next offseason I'm sure we'll hear about how Manning will have a breakout year. Fact is he needs to improve his accuracy alot before he can really breakout.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21
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This cant be a serioius post..
I think it stems from the fact that the NFL put them up against each other Week 1 on the big NBC game.

I think it stems from the fact the giants are the biggest homers on this board.
Not really. I think it just still bugs the Skins and Cowgirls fans that we came away with the East last year, and upgraded our team just enough to probably still be considered favorites.

Lets see how you do with the same amount of home games as everyone else. Redskins and Cowboys are both better than the Giants.
Cowboys yes. Redskins no.

And having NO switched to a home game didn't help them any. They would have crushed NO anywhere in the world.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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This cant be a serioius post..
I think it stems from the fact that the NFL put them up against each other Week 1 on the big NBC game.

I think it stems from the fact the giants are the biggest homers on this board.
Not really. I think it just still bugs the Skins and Cowgirls fans that we came away with the East last year, and upgraded our team just enough to probably still be considered favorites.

Lets see how you do with the same amount of home games as everyone else. Redskins and Cowboys are both better than the Giants.
Oh please. We could have played that game in Greenland. Do you really think the Saints would have beaten us.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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This cant be a serioius post..
I think it stems from the fact that the NFL put them up against each other Week 1 on the big NBC game.
Still there is no reason to say that Eli will do better than Peyton.

Tell you what, all of the Giants fans have been writing off Eli's problems saying he is young and still learning. Thats fine after 2 years but is that still going to be the excuse next offseason if he doesn't improve greatly this year?
I don't think so. The third year is always the big step in a QBs development historically if you look at all the greats. Not every young QB is put on a great team and is expected to just throw 15-18 passes a game. I'm expecting a big improvement this year and if not I'll be dissapointed. I'm not going to be happy if I'm waiting in year 6 for Eli to come around like Falcons fans are with Vick.
It will be very interesting to see if you still say this after Eli has another average year this year. Next offseason I'm sure we'll hear about how Manning will have a breakout year. Fact is he needs to improve his accuracy alot before he can really breakout.
I'm too lazy but you can go look up the improvements QBs such as Elway, Aikman, and Palmer (just to name a few for example), all made in their third year. The third year is the key year for improvement. Eli got his lumps his first half season. Got his team to the playoffs his second year with very good numbers, accuracy killed him the second half. Now I would expect him to improve on those acurracy numbers. Reports from camp are extremely positive, but I don't put too much faith in those. I'd like to see it myself. If Eli doesn't improve his accuracy, I will be very upset and vent in on this board. However if the Giants get to the Super Bowl despite accuracy problems, I would be a little less upset about it. Who knows if that will happen though.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:23 AM    (permalink
 
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This cant be a serioius post..
I think it stems from the fact that the NFL put them up against each other Week 1 on the big NBC game.

I think it stems from the fact the giants are the biggest homers on this board.
Not really. I think it just still bugs the Skins and Cowgirls fans that we came away with the East last year, and upgraded our team just enough to probably still be considered favorites.

Lets see how you do with the same amount of home games as everyone else. Redskins and Cowboys are both better than the Giants.
Cowboys yes. Redskins no.

And having NO switched to a home game didn't help them any. They would have crushed NO anywhere in the world.
I would love you hear your opion on why the giants are better than the redskins.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Eli has a max of 4 years for me personally. If he shows improvement this year but doesn't make a "leap" I'll give him one more year. But thats it, if he doesn't get it by year 4, then yes, he is a dissappointment.

But I don't see why anyone would believe he won't have a breakout year. Look at his progress. It has been exponential. Say what you want about him last year, his improvement was light years ahead of his rookie year. He ran an extremely complicated offense (Aikman himself reported on espnradio that Eli was running a 5th year QB's offense in his sophomore year), he is responsible for audiblling all the pass protection schemes himself, and he runs a vertical pass game that has everyone go deep, which doesn't really help completion % when you think about it.

The offense also revolved around him. We set up the run with our pass. Eli had more responsibility than 95% of the qbs in the league in only his 2nd season. Last year, our offense wasn't asked to "manage" games, we expected them to WIN games. There were games where we expected him to outscore the opposition for us to win. He shouldered alot of responsibility, he was literally expected to win games for us by himself at times. And look how much pressure was thrown on him during the season. In week 1, you ask anyone what they expected out of Eli last year theyd say an 8-8 season with growing pains. The second he did what he did against SD, people were talking Super Bowl. Thats what he has to deal with. Ive never seen a qb in my life with so much scrutiny and pressure thrown on his shoulders so quickly. Hes handled it very well so far.

His 3rd year should be another leap. People forget that his accuracy was an issue in the 2nd half of the season. Thats attributed to him losing muscle mass during the season, wearing out mentally and falling into tendencies, and a worn out arm (the kid threw damn near 40 times a game, at least 35). He's bulked up in the offseason and has run 3 miles a day (i think its 3 miles) and has built stamina to keep his increased muscle mass this offseason. He's studied oodles of tape, and he's HUNGRY. You can feel it. He is really hungry to prove everyone wrong this year. All reports indicate at least right now his accuracy is dead on as well.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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I would love you hear your opion on why the giants are better than the redskins.
Let's not get into that. You guys have your opinions, we have ours. No matter what you say, you won't change our mind and vice versa. So we'd be arguing for nothing. The only way to truely find out is by watching the season. The season will answer all questions and debates. No need to side track the point of the thread with a debate that will go unresolved forever and ever and ever.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Eli isn't even the best QB of his draft class, let alone anywhere near his brother.

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The offense also revolved around him. We set up the run with our pass. Eli had more responsibility than 95% of the qbs in the league in only his 2nd season. Last year, our offense wasn't asked to "manage" games, we expected them to WIN games. There were games where we expected him to outscore the opposition for us to win. He shouldered alot of responsibility, he was literally expected to win games for us by himself at times.
QB's that manage the games are the ones that go to the Super Bowl. Hope you notice that little fact. Expecting to outscore the opposition every week is not going to you far in the playoffs either.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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i'll be back after that sunday night game to rub it in all your faces.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Eli isn't even the best QB of his draft class, let alone anywhere near his brother.

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The offense also revolved around him. We set up the run with our pass. Eli had more responsibility than 95% of the qbs in the league in only his 2nd season. Last year, our offense wasn't asked to "manage" games, we expected them to WIN games. There were games where we expected him to outscore the opposition for us to win. He shouldered alot of responsibility, he was literally expected to win games for us by himself at times.
QB's that manage the games are the ones that go to the Super Bowl. Hope you notice that little fact. Expecting to outscore the opposition every week is not going to you far in the playoffs either.
Yes, football managers are the ones that win SBs. I agree with that. Im a fan of old school football and prefer running the ball 70% of the time etc and a punishing defense. But thats not the only way to win SBs. Joe Montana won a bunch of them and he wasn't a game manager. And how can you pass judgement on whos the best qb from that draft class only after 2 seasons? Thats pretty dumb.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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To make this question easier to answer.....I would take Peyton on the Giants for the 2006 season over Eli and not even think twice about it. Eli has a shot to be great, but he isn't at Peyton's level yet.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eacantdraft
Eli isn't even the best QB of his draft class, let alone anywhere near his brother.

Quote:
The offense also revolved around him. We set up the run with our pass. Eli had more responsibility than 95% of the qbs in the league in only his 2nd season. Last year, our offense wasn't asked to "manage" games, we expected them to WIN games. There were games where we expected him to outscore the opposition for us to win. He shouldered alot of responsibility, he was literally expected to win games for us by himself at times.
QB's that manage the games are the ones that go to the Super Bowl. Hope you notice that little fact. Expecting to outscore the opposition every week is not going to you far in the playoffs either.
Yes, football managers are the ones that win SBs. I agree with that. Im a fan of old school football and prefer running the ball 70% of the time etc and a punishing defense. But thats not the only way to win SBs. Joe Montana won a bunch of them and he wasn't a game manager. And how can you pass judgement on whos the best qb from that draft class only after 2 seasons? Thats pretty dumb.
And that was 15 to 25 years ago. Also Joe Montana threw short high% passes, Eli and the Giants don't. I will take the QB in 2004 who has better mobility, throws better on the run, has better arm strength (hint, it's the one with the Super Bowl ring).
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eacantdraft
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by eacantdraft
Eli isn't even the best QB of his draft class, let alone anywhere near his brother.

Quote:
The offense also revolved around him. We set up the run with our pass. Eli had more responsibility than 95% of the qbs in the league in only his 2nd season. Last year, our offense wasn't asked to "manage" games, we expected them to WIN games. There were games where we expected him to outscore the opposition for us to win. He shouldered alot of responsibility, he was literally expected to win games for us by himself at times.
QB's that manage the games are the ones that go to the Super Bowl. Hope you notice that little fact. Expecting to outscore the opposition every week is not going to you far in the playoffs either.
Yes, football managers are the ones that win SBs. I agree with that. Im a fan of old school football and prefer running the ball 70% of the time etc and a punishing defense. But thats not the only way to win SBs. Joe Montana won a bunch of them and he wasn't a game manager. And how can you pass judgement on whos the best qb from that draft class only after 2 seasons? Thats pretty dumb.
And that was 15 to 25 years ago. Also Joe Montana threw short high% passes, Eli and the Giants don't. I will take the QB in 2004 who has better mobility, throws better on the run, has better arm strength (hint, it's the one with the Super Bowl ring).
If I remember correctly Kurt Warner won a SB with a high powered vertical pass game didn't he? Yeah...

And if youre talking about mobility, Eli Manning has better footwork in the pocket. You don't need to scramble, you just need to buy time in the pocket with subtle body shifting. Ask Tom Brady, he'll tell you all about it. And in terms of arm strength, their arms are very comparable, Eli can launch it too, his poor mechanics in the 2nd half of the season led to some poor throws, but if you watch tape of the first half, he threw the deep ball with the best of them.

Youre obviously here just to cause trouble. Do some homework before you make inaccurate statements.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Are you trying to compare Eli to Warner? Kurt Warner is an incredibly accrurate passer and well Eli is not.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Are you trying to compare Eli to Warner? Kurt Warner is an incredibly accrurate passer and well Eli is not.
Eli will not have accuracy issues this year. And thats besides the point, I was just giving an example of how having a high powered vertical pass game can result in SB trophies.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Are you trying to compare Eli to Warner? Kurt Warner is an incredibly accrurate passer and well Eli is not.
Eli will not have accuracy issues this year. And thats besides the point, I was just giving an example of how having a high powered vertical pass game can result in SB trophies.
I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eacantdraft
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by eacantdraft
Eli isn't even the best QB of his draft class, let alone anywhere near his brother.

Quote:
The offense also revolved around him. We set up the run with our pass. Eli had more responsibility than 95% of the qbs in the league in only his 2nd season. Last year, our offense wasn't asked to "manage" games, we expected them to WIN games. There were games where we expected him to outscore the opposition for us to win. He shouldered alot of responsibility, he was literally expected to win games for us by himself at times.
QB's that manage the games are the ones that go to the Super Bowl. Hope you notice that little fact. Expecting to outscore the opposition every week is not going to you far in the playoffs either.
Yes, football managers are the ones that win SBs. I agree with that. Im a fan of old school football and prefer running the ball 70% of the time etc and a punishing defense. But thats not the only way to win SBs. Joe Montana won a bunch of them and he wasn't a game manager. And how can you pass judgement on whos the best qb from that draft class only after 2 seasons? Thats pretty dumb.
And that was 15 to 25 years ago. Also Joe Montana threw short high% passes, Eli and the Giants don't. I will take the QB in 2004 who has better mobility, throws better on the run, has better arm strength (hint, it's the one with the Super Bowl ring).
If I remember correctly Kurt Warner won a SB with a high powered vertical pass game didn't he? Yeah...


Youre obviously here just to cause trouble. Do some homework before you make inaccurate statements.
You heard of the saying "Exception to the Rule"? That was the Rams. And even Warner didn't lead the league in passing yards then. Notice how no other team with a high powered vertical passing game has won a Super Bowl since? We are talking 6 seasons here.

The Rams were like the 2002 California/Anaheim/ LA Angels. A fluke that an offensive team won the championship game in their sport.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Are you trying to compare Eli to Warner? Kurt Warner is an incredibly accrurate passer and well Eli is not.
Eli will not have accuracy issues this year. And thats besides the point, I was just giving an example of how having a high powered vertical pass game can result in SB trophies.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Like I'll believe Drew Bledsoe staying on his feet for more than half the game when I see it.
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Old 08-28-2006, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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And of course the Eli of the 2nd half of the 2005 season will show up a few times, just as he did this past Friday.

Eli still has a long way to go before he close to Peyton. He will never equal Peyton is his prime. Of course Peyton plays in a dome while Eli gets to play in ugly northeast weather.

And to the person who said the Rams won the Super Bowl with a deep vertical passing game. They won it in a dome, just as most of their regular season games were in a dome
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Old 08-28-2006, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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13 votes for Eli, must be all Giants fans, no one in their right mind would choose Eli, Peyton is the top quarterback in the NFL, Eli barely cracks top 10.
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Old 08-28-2006, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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13 votes for Eli, must be all Giants fans, no one in their right mind would choose Eli, Peyton is the top quarterback in the NFL, Eli barely cracks top 10.
Can't tell that to the Giant homers and Eli fangirls.
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Old 08-28-2006, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Do you guys think Eli has a shot at winning a Super Bowl before Peyton?
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Old 08-28-2006, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Do you guys think Eli has a shot at winning a Super Bowl before Peyton?
They both have equal chances but if I were to choose for the next 3 years I would go with the Colts, but still answering the Question Peyton is much much better.
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Old 08-28-2006, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Do you guys think Eli has a shot at winning a Super Bowl before Peyton?
They both have equal chances but if I were to choose for the next 3 years I would go with the Colts, but still answering the Question Peyton is much much better.
Agreed.
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