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Old 08-23-2006, 10:44 AM    (permalink
Smooth Criminal
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
Until the Steelers open up their offense more and let Ben do more things like most NFL QBs are expected to do, he will always be viewed as more of a caretaker than a great QB.
That is just wrong though. Ben has shown he is a very accurate QB with great decision making. He can scamble and make big plays out of nothing. Look at his pass to Ward in the Superbowl when it was 3rd and 21 or something. Most QBs would not have made that play.

You have been giving Eli the benefit of the doubt saying he will have his breakout year in his 3rd season like most QBs do. Ben will be in his third year aswell. I expect to see him take over the offense alot more than he did in the last two years. We will still have a rush based offense, like the Giants, but we will be throwing the ball more early in the games like we did in the playoffs. Pass early and take the lead and run the clock out in the 2nd half.
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't neccesarily call the Giants a rush based offense.
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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That is just wrong though. Ben has shown he is a very accurate QB with great decision making. He can scamble and make big plays out of nothing. Look at his pass to Ward in the Superbowl when it was 3rd and 21 or something. Most QBs would not have made that play.

You have been giving Eli the benefit of the doubt saying he will have his breakout year in his 3rd season like most QBs do. Ben will be in his third year aswell. I expect to see him take over the offense alot more than he did in the last two years. We will still have a rush based offense, like the Giants, but we will be throwing the ball more early in the games like we did in the playoffs. Pass early and take the lead and run the clock out in the 2nd half.

Ben's credit can stem from the fact your coaching staff, specifically Ken Whisenhunt is a genius and changed the offensive structure of the Steelers into what it is now, and factor in a sick DC, and things really came together.

We did something different, we threw Eli in the deepend of the pool and just let him try to swim himself, and things have worked out, and also drastically effected his progression as a qb. Both are different qbs, and both come from different systems, with different coaches, and thus very hard to compare in my opinion.
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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This topic is tiring and old. Let's end it in a positive manner. I think we can all agree on this.

Each team got their guy, and each team is happy with their choice. Thats all.

As a Giants fan, Im happy we got Eli over the other 2, im sure Pittsburgh fans are extremely happy with Roethlisberger, and SD fans should be happy with Rivers. Everyone got their guy, no one is a loser here. Each will be great, and evaluating them as individuals in a team sport is always subject to debate and not entirely accurate. So theres no need for it. Especially after only 2 seasons. Thats just silly.
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
This topic is tiring and old. Let's end it in a positive manner. I think we can all agree on this.

Each team got their guy, and each team is happy with their choice. Thats all.

As a Giants fan, Im happy we got Eli over the other 2, im sure Pittsburgh fans are extremely happy with Roethlisberger, and SD fans should be happy with Rivers. Everyone got their guy, no one is a loser here. Each will be great, and evaluating them as individuals in a team sport is always subject to debate and not entirely accurate. So theres no need for it. Especially after only 2 seasons. Thats just silly.
As a Giant fan, I thought and still think the Giants overpayed for Eli in a QB heavy draft. To the Giants homers. What does Eli have (besides his last name) that makes loosing a shot at a Shawn Merriman, an Alex Barron, a David Pollack, or a Derrick Johnson? as well as other players with the other picks the Giants gave up?
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
This topic is tiring and old. Let's end it in a positive manner. I think we can all agree on this.

Each team got their guy, and each team is happy with their choice. Thats all.

As a Giants fan, Im happy we got Eli over the other 2, im sure Pittsburgh fans are extremely happy with Roethlisberger, and SD fans should be happy with Rivers. Everyone got their guy, no one is a loser here. Each will be great, and evaluating them as individuals in a team sport is always subject to debate and not entirely accurate. So theres no need for it. Especially after only 2 seasons. Thats just silly.
As a Giant fan, I thought and still think the Giants overpayed for Eli in a QB heavy draft. To the Giants homers. What does Eli have (besides his last name) that makes loosing a shot at a Shawn Merriman, an Alex Barron, a David Pollack, or a Derrick Johnson? as well as other players with the other picks the Giants gave up?
I think its an absolute joke that you are rating quarterbacks 2 years into their careers. Thats like saying that Dan Marino was unquestionably better than Elway after their first 2 years...which we both know now is a ridiculous statement.

Football is a marathon, not a sprint. If players retired after 2 years, your topic of discussion would be worthwhile, but they don't, which is why I don't see the point in getting all worked up over nothing.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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I can't see how you can say Manning is bad yet. He has had two years to prove himself and has, at times, looked very good. Last season was his first full year as a starter. You saw what happened at the end of Ben's first year of starting in the 2004 playoffs. His accuracy went down and so did his level of play. Same thing happened to Eli at the end of this year. Eli will do better this year, esspecially toward the end, because he will be ready to take on the full load.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
I can't see how you can say Manning is bad yet. He has had two years to prove himself and has, at times, looked very good. Last season was his first full year as a starter. You saw what happened at the end of Ben's first year of starting in the 2004 playoffs. His accuracy went down and so did his level of play. Same thing happened to Eli at the end of this year. Eli will do better this year, esspecially toward the end, because he will be ready to take on the full load.
Great post. It's about time a Steelers fan said something rational about Manning.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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I can't see how you can say Manning is bad yet. He has had two years to prove himself and has, at times, looked very good. Last season was his first full year as a starter. You saw what happened at the end of Ben's first year of starting in the 2004 playoffs. His accuracy went down and so did his level of play. Same thing happened to Eli at the end of this year. Eli will do better this year, esspecially toward the end, because he will be ready to take on the full load.

Good post, and I am kinda curious, because the guy sounds like Lockhart from the Giants.com MB.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
I can't see how you can say Manning is bad yet. He has had two years to prove himself and has, at times, looked very good. Last season was his first full year as a starter. You saw what happened at the end of Ben's first year of starting in the 2004 playoffs. His accuracy went down and so did his level of play. Same thing happened to Eli at the end of this year. Eli will do better this year, esspecially toward the end, because he will be ready to take on the full load.
Great post. It's about time a Steelers fan said something rational about Manning.
No one with any knowledge about football thinks that Manning is a bad QB. It usually take time for a young QB to become a good player. Ben is the exception not the rule.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Just simple with any qb, wait until it's all said and done, but also everyone be mindful of the system, and coaching and even surrouding players. It's hard to compare apples and oranges.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Manning is a bad QB, just that the burden of proof is on Eli to show that he's the best QB of the draft, not the other way around.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:21 PM    (permalink
 
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I wouldn't neccesarily call the Giants a rush based offense.
Your offense seems to revolve around your RB though.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't neccesarily call the Giants a rush based offense.
Your offense seems to revolve around your RB though.
It is. But the statement was that our offense is rush based like the Steelers. When I don't think you can compare the offenses at all.

Last year we ran the ball 461 times and passed 557 times. The Steelers ran the ball 499 times and passed 375 times.
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Your offense seems to revolve around your RB though.
In the sense it opens up our passing game, than yea, but we do throw the ball alot as well, and when we do it's distributed well to all our guys.
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Old 08-23-2006, 03:34 PM    (permalink
 
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Your offense seems to revolve around your RB though.
In the sense it opens up our passing game, than yea, but we do throw the ball alot as well, and when we do it's distributed well to all our guys.
Im sayin Tiki is the center of your offense
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Old 08-23-2006, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Im sayin Tiki is the center of your offense

Yeah that makes sense, but than again that can be said for alot of offenses with an good to sick running back. Mind you that means Portis, Tiki, LT, Shaun Alexander, LJ and many more can all say the same thing. But I agree he is the cog that opens everything else. Hopefully this year though we can rely on other sources so that tiki doesnt have to the burden of carrying the offense.
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Old 08-24-2006, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
This topic is tiring and old. Let's end it in a positive manner. I think we can all agree on this.

Each team got their guy, and each team is happy with their choice. Thats all.

As a Giants fan, Im happy we got Eli over the other 2, im sure Pittsburgh fans are extremely happy with Roethlisberger, and SD fans should be happy with Rivers. Everyone got their guy, no one is a loser here. Each will be great, and evaluating them as individuals in a team sport is always subject to debate and not entirely accurate. So theres no need for it. Especially after only 2 seasons. Thats just silly.
The only difference is that NY gave up Shawne Merriman, Nate Kaeding, and Roman Oben to choose Eli as opposed to taking the guy who just won the Superbowl, or the guy who will put up numbers comparable to, if not better than Manning Jr.

I'm biased though, I freely admit. If Rivers starts piling up Ws and Lights Out builds on a DROY season, Ernie Accorsi will get jabbed in the nuts everytime he goes out in public.
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Old 08-24-2006, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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JP Losman is leading the Bills to the superbowl.
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Old 08-24-2006, 06:16 AM    (permalink
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JP Losman is leading the Bills to the superbowl.

this year?
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