Whos the best CB in the league? - Page 2

ShutDwn · 10-01-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBond93

Champ is still there, but no CB is shutdown

No one is like me.

Unless you are a scout who has looked at every CB in every situation with absolutely zero bias, then I don't think you can determine who is best.

dcarey20 · 10-01-2006, 05:42 PM

Chris McAlister should get some mention...anyone who has watched him thus far knows what I'm talking about. I'm not being a homer.

-He shut down Galloway - 0 catches - and he has a 50 yard INT return for TD
-Randy Moss only had 2 catches against him
-Cleveland Game: he makes the play of the game as he intercepted a Frye pass that gave the Ravens the ball back.
-Today: Goes up against McCardell and he has 0 catches

10-01-2006, 05:54 PM

I say after watching Hall cover Larry Fitzgerald today, Hall is on his way to being a top 3 corner in the NFL. He shut him out for most of the day and plays with a passion. I haven't seen enough of this to say that he's better than Champ Bailey, though. I'd say Bailey is the best shutdown WR in the NFL though.

-DA

Pokeys · 10-01-2006, 05:56 PM

McAlister is right up there in the top 5 in my books...

10-01-2006, 06:11 PM

McAlister is heavily gifted and a top 3 CB but I think he's a little too aggressive at times and you can't rank him above Champ Bailey. I'd say he's 2nd with Rashean Mathis or Nate Clements as 3rd. Not sure between the last two. DeAngelo would wrap up my top five.

sodar21 · 10-01-2006, 06:23 PM

Top 5 (no order):
Chris McAlister
Nate Clements
Champ Bailey
Antoine Winfield
Ken Lucas

10-01-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraftMichaelHuff

Hall played another great game today covering Fitzgerald as well as its possible to cover fitzgerald, he had numerous pass deflection and a vital INT return for a TD
Best CB is still Bailey because of his consistancy but no for long, by that i mean i think my answer would be HALL if this was week 16

i said no homer picks.

jackalope · 10-01-2006, 07:22 PM

Bailey is the best CB in the leauge

Shiver · 10-01-2006, 07:34 PM

Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

JETS5128 · 10-01-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by JETS5128

Quote:

Originally Posted by remix 6

scientific football book says he allowed least YPC average or up in top 3 i believe..you guys are underrating him because hes not a Jet anymore

No, i watched the games, there is no stat for trying to jump a route and getting beat

So that means that if a quarterback always throws screen passes or dumpoff passes and his RB's take it all the way each time, he is the best QB in the league?

?

D4rk 0ne · 10-01-2006, 07:46 PM

Bailey is number 1. Chris McCallister, IMO, is 2... Clements is 3.

keylime_5 · 10-01-2006, 08:06 PM

I think Hall is better than Bailey, or at least I'd rather have Hall on my team anyways. Rashean Mathis is pretty darn good too

HawkeyeFan · 10-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Champ Bailey hands down.

njx9 · 10-01-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

that's not true across the board. certain schemes don't keep a corner matched up. some coaches like to keep a guy matched up. for instance, until he got re-injured, bailey was on owens all game. foxworth spent 90% of the nfc championship game on cedrick wilson.

duckseason · 10-01-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeFan

Champ Bailey hands down.

What exactly separates him so clearly from a guy like Antoine Winfield? His popularity?

10-01-2006, 08:31 PM

In terms of overall play i would say Nate Clements, but just purely coverman i would say Chris Gamble or Champ Bailey.

RCAChainGang · 10-01-2006, 08:32 PM

I am kinda gettin sick of these threads... Like Sean Taylor of Brian Dawkins. It's always the older guy but the younger guy in a few years. Sigh....

Shiver · 10-01-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

that's not true across the board. certain schemes don't keep a corner matched up. some coaches like to keep a guy matched up. for instance, until he got re-injured, bailey was on owens all game. foxworth spent 90% of the nfc championship game on cedrick wilson.

Pro Football Prospectus cataloged statistics on strategic tendencies, for example "CB1 on WR1." From last year: The Denver Broncos only had CB1, or Bailey, on the WR1 51% of the time, 9th most total in the NFL. The Falcons had Hall on the WR1 56% of the time, or 5th most in the NFL. So take that.

duckseason · 10-01-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan

I am kinda gettin sick of these threads... Like Sean Taylor of Brian Dawkins. It's always the older guy but the younger guy in a few years. Sigh....

Yeah, there's rarely (if ever) a definitive answer. A real exercise in futility.

DHVF · 10-01-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan

I am kinda gettin sick of these threads... Like Sean Taylor of Brian Dawkins. It's always the older guy but the younger guy in a few years. Sigh....

I'd rather have Taylor for the present and future.

njx9 · 10-01-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

that's not true across the board. certain schemes don't keep a corner matched up. some coaches like to keep a guy matched up. for instance, until he got re-injured, bailey was on owens all game. foxworth spent 90% of the nfc championship game on cedrick wilson.

Pro Football Prospectus cataloged statistics on strategic tendencies, for example "CB1 on WR1." From last year: The Denver Broncos only had CB1, or Bailey, on the WR1 51% of the time, 9th most total in the NFL. The Falcons had Hall on the WR1 56% of the time, or 5th most in the NFL. So take that.

sure, i believe that, i'm just saying that across the board, that's not a universsally appliable stat. for instance, does anyone think bailey followed troy brown around all game? i can't imagine there was any point. the same might go for the falcons playing the cardinals, where hall should cover either fitzgerald or boldin and it typically might (might because i don't know if mora thinks it does) not matter which hall is on.

on the other hand, in a big game, bailey is typically locked down on the #1. terrance newman on the other hand, is not because parcells does not believe in playing match-ups (*). i wouldn't blame bailey because we played some wr-poor teams last year.

* - from the dallas morning news, i can try to find the article if anyone cares.

The Unseen · 10-01-2006, 08:47 PM

I've decided that determining a better defensive player is almost useless. Unless a player is completely dominant (Deion Sanders), you can't really know.

Number 10 · 10-01-2006, 08:48 PM

I'd take Hall over anyone.

Shiver · 10-01-2006, 08:48 PM

Oh, okay njx9, I see your point. I didn't grasp what you were saying. Speaking of what you said; Owens was having a big game last year, then after half-time, Hall was on Owens the whole second half and shut him down.

10-01-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Oh, okay njx9, I see your point. I didn't grasp what you were saying. Speaking of what you said; Owens was having a big game last year, then after half-time, Hall was on Owens the whole second half and shut him down.

:roll: you know McNabb was injured right?