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Old 10-25-2006, 04:10 PM    (permalink
jsagan77
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Default Now Whose the Better OLB

With all the alegations surrounding Marriman, the debate of who is better should arise between him and Ware.

Just to let you know, the steroid found in his body wasn't considered a steroid a year ago. It was a pro-hormone that you could buy over the counter at any GNC. Just recently the communist govn't of the US passed a bill making it, along with about 13 other harmless performance enhancers, illegal. Still it is just illegal to buy now, not to take so if he stocked up on it before it became illegal then he probably shouldn't get in trouble. But i'm guessing the NFL's list of performance enhancers is probably much more strict than the governments..
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Ware cause he is all natural....as far as we know :D
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearfan54
Ware cause he is all natural....as far as we know :D
Everyone in college and NFL are natural...
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Ware
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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It's a bit unfair to bury Merriman right now. There is no indication that he's a creation of steroids. Last time I checked, it's innocent until proven guilty. Even then, it's entirely likely that he got a mix-up of supplements.

That said, they are very close. They are both great 3-4 Rush LBs, and I would say the best two in the game right now. I voted for Ware, but it was a toss up to me. Overall, I think Ware is much improved over last year.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
It's a bit unfair to bury Merriman right now. There is no indication that he's a creation of steroids. Last time I checked, it's innocent until proven guilty. Even then, it's entirely likely that he got a mix-up of supplements.

That said, they are very close. They are both great 3-4 Rush LBs, and I would say the best two in the game right now. I voted for Ware, but it was a toss up to me. Overall, I think Ware is much improved over last year.
No, the people who did the test said it was straight up steroids, not supplements or other stuff.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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You can get mix-ups, when you use supplements. Patrick Kerney was on JRIB and said that if you aren't careful, you can accidentally take in something you aren't aware of. Which is why he goes to reputable, NFL approved, supplements to avoid those kinds of mix-ups. I think most people are ASSuming Shawne Merriman intentionally was taking Nandrolone.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I like Ware more, i admit he wasn't as good last year, but they were rookies. If it weren't for the steroids I would have voted Merriman, but I don't like voting for cheaters. Before the draft I had Ware pegged as better. After last year Merriman. After this week, Ware again.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Ware now
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:18 PM    (permalink
 
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There's no way to know how much the substance helped him so I still vote Merriman.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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I voted Merriman just because i'm tired of cowboy homers.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Oh how the board has turned on Merriman the once worshiped is now hated, I'm still staying with my boy from the MD he was a beast at Maryland and as far as I know wasn't on steroids.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Ware is a much more balanced player and better all round. If Merriman isnt blitzing than he isnt effective.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamonceTaylorThaGreat
i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....
The only argument you can make for Ware is that he's could be the better edge rusher. Merriman is one of the best tacklers in the league and is often blowing up run plays, as well as pass.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamonceTaylorThaGreat
i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....
The only argument you can make for Ware is that he's could be the better edge rusher. Merriman is one of the best tacklers in the league and is often blowing up run plays, as well as pass.
I'd say Ware's better against the pass. But anyway, I'd go Ware, but I may be biased, because I've never liked Merriman.
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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First, before evaluating the players, in terms of the positive steroid test, I think we cannot write off Merriman just yet. It couldve very well have been a mistake, or a dumb attempt at recovering quickly from an injury, but regardless, we cannot negate all his past success unless we see a dramatic dropoff in his on field production from now on. Then we can conclude that he was using steroids all along, and he isn't a great player without them. Last time I checked, Peppers was suspended too his rookie year for substance violation. Oh how quickly we forget, don't we? Fastforward 4 years, and Peppers has more ***** riders than Ron Jeremy. As far as the HGH accusations go...look, A LOT of players use it. Id say anywhere from 35-40% of the league uses it. So we can't single him out on that.

Now, their games. A 3-4 OLB's ability is based on the following. His ability to stuff the run, rush the passer, drop in coverage, tackle, versatility, and "it" factor.

Run Stuffing - edge - Ware. Only slightly though. Merriman is a great run stuffer too, but Ware never misses a tackle and raps up real good. He can do a better job sideline to sideline, and is nearly impossible to run at. Merriman sometimes overpursues and misses his gap.

Pass rushing - edge - Merriman. Merriman is fast enough to burn the edge, strong enough to bull rush. Thats why he can line up inside and bullrush a guard, or bullrush a LT if need be. He is simply a better rusher at the moment. Thats not saying Ware is bad, but Merriman is just better. Ware still has a hard time disengaging off a Tackles blocks sometimes, Merriman releases better and gets better push.

Coverage - edge - Ware. By a mile. He's a much better defender in coverage. No explanation needed really.

Tackling - edge - Ware. Ware is a more sound tackler. He does a better job wrapping up. Merriman too many times tries to put a big hit instead of wrapping up. Ware's tackles aren't as fancy, but the bottomline is he makes all of them, whereas Merriman can miss one here and there.

Versatility - edge - Tie. Ware's better in coverage. Both can play OLB and DE, both can rush standing or kneeling. Because Merriman can bullrush better, he's able to play more ILB pass rushing roles than Ware. At least thats what we've seen. Parcells doesn't use Ware like that but I think he could do it too. I think in terms of versatility its too close to call.

IT factor - edge - Merriman. Lets face it, up to this point, he's made more plays, and has had bigger moments in big games. Because of that, at the moment you gotta give it to Merriman.

Right now, I honestly don't know which one Id take. Ware is catching fire, and I think if Parcells was more creative with him, Ware would have better numbers. But Merriman is also beastly, and has the numbers. Right now its a tie as far as talent goes. Take the off the field stuff for whats its worth, but on the field its a tie as of right now.
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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BBD, Peppers was caught using ephedra, which is a stimulant, not a performance enhancing substance.
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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BBD, Peppers was caught using ephedra, which is a stimulant, not a performance enhancing substance.
Yeah, but with the widespread use of HGH in trhe NFL, we'd be foolish to assume that he's not a prime suspect. And also, remember, a doctor for Carolina gave out steroids, plus he plans on writing a book with more high profile names included in it. That story is far from over.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Ware was always the more complete player. Merriman got alot of the attention and acclaim because of his pass rushing ability. Although I love Ware's all around game, I'd still probably prefer Merriman, because rushing the passer is so, so important.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Ware was always better even before all this broke.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
You can get mix-ups, when you use supplements. Patrick Kerney was on JRIB and said that if you aren't careful, you can accidentally take in something you aren't aware of. Which is why he goes to reputable, NFL approved, supplements to avoid those kinds of mix-ups. I think most people are ASSuming Shawne Merriman intentionally was taking Nandrolone.
so he's a moron for putting something into his body without having any idea what it actually was. in the nfl (as people have pointed out for years, just ask lance) you dang well better know what you're putting into your body. i do not buy the "accident" BS for one second, unless we're going to call merriman an absolute moron, which, imo, ends this argument anyways.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I get to watch Merriman more than Ware, but I think that Merriman is much more dominant. Ware is well balanced, but doesn't change the game like Merriman does. His upside is greater than Ware's as well being two years younger.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Seriously, I would have taken Ware before the whole steroid issue.
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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the people on this forum are so fickle
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