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Old 11-27-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
duckseason
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So I won't know what it was like after I am dead, that was exactly my point. If I don't know I couldn't have suffered.
But you don't know that, now do you? How can a mere human such as yourself be so certain of the unknown?
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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But you don't know that, now do you? How can a mere human such as yourself be so certain of the unknown?
If I cannot know before my existence, I cannot know after my existence either. I am not certain of that, just as I cannot be certain that you truly exist. I am as sure that I will not be conscience of my existence without my existing as I am sure that you are real.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Death is a once in a life time experience,we have that to look forward to.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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If I cannot know before my existence, I cannot know after my existence either. I am not certain of that, just as I cannot be certain that you truly exist. I am as sure that I will not be conscience of my existence without my existing as I am sure that you are real.
You can be certain that I truly exist because I am responding to you right now.

But you cannot be certain of the unknown. Your mind may have convinced itself that there is nothing to fear about death, but that doesn't mean you don't fear it at all. It's natural to suppress fear. Especially the fear of something as inevitable as death. We have no choice but to cope with it in one way or another.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Well, this may get me in trouble, but here it goes anyway.

What you are describing is Pascals Wager. Look at it this way, what if you live your life like a good Christian, believe in God, follow all the rules, etc. Now, when you die, you come to find out that the Christian God was not the correct god? That the real god was God X. Now God X is a very jealous deity. He will sentence you to an eternity of suffering if you believed in the incorrect god. But he was also a god that favored intellectualism and the pursuit of truth. Now, those atheists and agnostics will get to go to heaven, while the christians who blindly followed will not get to go. No matter what you believe, there is a chance you are wrong.

The way I see it, I have never seen evidence of a deity or an afterlife, so I take this life as my only shot. I still live a good life, I try not to hurt other people, and I try to help others when the situation arises. If I am wrong and there is a god, I would rather not spend time with one who will punish me eternally for not believing, regardless of how I acted while on earth.

Just my 2 cents.
I gave you +1 rep for this post btw.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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You can be certain that I truly exist because I am responding to you right now.

But you cannot be certain of the unknown. Your mind may have convinced itself that there is nothing to fear about death, but that doesn't mean you don't fear it at all. It's natural to suppress fear. Especially the fear of something as inevitable as death. We have no choice but to cope with it in one way or another.
You could be a figment of my imagination. I can be making up everything that has happened this far in what I remember of my life. I could be a brain in a vat. Like Descartes said, "Cogito, ergo sum." That is the only thing we can be truly certain of. Everything else we have to just accept based on evidence. If there is no evidence for something, we have to accept that it almost certainly isn't there.

Lets say I am wrong, I would rather be in hell if whatever deity is going to judge me sends me there for seeking truth. Just because I am sure right now of what happens after I die doesn't mean it can't change.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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You could be a figment of my imagination. I can be making up everything that has happened this far in what I remember of my life. I could be a brain in a vat. Like Descartes said, "Cogito, ergo sum." That is the only thing we can be truly certain of. Everything else we have to just accept based on evidence. If there is no evidence for something, we have to accept that it almost certainly isn't there.

Lets say I am wrong, I would rather be in hell if whatever deity is going to judge me sends me there for seeking truth. Just because I am sure right now of what happens after I die doesn't mean it can't change.
Right, I agree with most of that. But I also believe that the fear of death is present within all humans. Could be wrong though, obviously. You were talking about adrenaline earlier. When you jump out of an airplane, that adrenaline is evidence of your inherent fear of death. Your mind may tell you different, but that is just a way of protecting yourself, much like the adrenaline.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Right, I agree with most of that. But I also believe that the fear of death is present within all humans. Could be wrong though, obviously. You were talking about adrenaline earlier. When you jump out of an airplane, that adrenaline is evidence of your inherent fear of death. Your mind may tell you different, but that is just a way of protecting yourself, much like the adrenaline.
We are talking about different things then, because I agree 100% with what you are saying, and that is what I was saying to ERU. I mean the conscious fear of death. Like the kind that keep some people awake at night, or the kind that keep people from going on airplanes, etc.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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We are talking about different things then, because I agree 100% with what you are saying, and that is what I was saying to ERU. I mean the conscious fear of death. Like the kind that keep some people awake at night, or the kind that keep people from going on airplanes, etc.
Yes, I agree that people are capable of consciously suppressing their natural fear of death. I don't doubt that you truly do not fear death in your own mind.

Also, I agree 100% with your Pascal's wager post. I've always felt the same way, but had never seen those thoughts on paper.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Yes, I agree that people are capable of consciously suppressing their natural fear of death. I don't doubt that you truly do not fear death in your own mind.

Also, I agree 100% with your Pascal's wager post. I've always felt the same way, but had never seen those thoughts on paper.
I hate Pascal's Wager with a passion. I have an even better analogy, but I will get in trouble if I use it here, lets just say it involves ritual bodily desecration to get the eternal reward.

^^^It isn't working^^^
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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hilarious. I +repped you.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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I believe in reincarnation...I also believe I was Abraham Lincoln in a previous life, for some reason I always dream about that dude. :D
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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I believe in reincarnation...I also believe I was Abraham Lincoln in a previous life, for some reason I always dream about that dude. :D
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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I have a lot of faith in my religious beliefs and strongly believe in an afterlife. My only fears of death are who I leave behind on earth and the possibility of going to hell. I don't wanna die before redeeming myself for my sins. Not trying to offend anyone with different beliefs btw. I do fear the idea of death itself just because even with religion, I don't know exactly what will happen and it can be scary to think about.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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I immediately thought of that also when I read he dreams of Abe Lincoln. Great commercials.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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God died for my sins... Shall I make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them?

It's amazing how good at philosophy people think they are after taking one or two college intro classes in it.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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God died for my sins... Shall I make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them?

It's amazing how good at philosophy people think they are after taking one or two college intro classes in it.
Good at it, no. Like to do it, yes.
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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God died for my sins... Shall I make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them?

It's amazing how good at philosophy people think they are after taking one or two college intro classes in it.
hahahaha **** i misinterpreted this quote at first. I lolled now that I got it. I'm dumb. But this quote is awesome.
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I would take the time to voice my views, but due to me being stupid, I've deleted two paragraphs worth twice already. Anyway, everything I've wanted to say has been said by someone447. He's hit the nail on the head so many times for me it's ridiculous. I think we might be the same person. I was thinking about how our views are pretty much the exact same, and I was thinking about Galileo's Wager for a reply to the post(I always thought it was Galileo's wager, my mistake) right where you mentioned Pascal's Wager. I actually said "holy s***"aloud right when I read that, it's really eerie how similar our thinking is on this subject. We're soulmates or something. Everything I said in my paragraphs you've essentially said here.

Anyway, here is an awesome comic that kinda describes life for me. The last line is brilliant in my opinion. The Boondocks for life:
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Keyshawn because i just hate T.O. he is a cocky son of a biscuit
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:01 AM    (permalink
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Fear is a natural instinct that we all possess as a survival mechanism. We naturally come up with all sorts of ways to cope with the fear of our inevitable deaths. One of which is convincing ourselves that this fear does not exist. To be unafraid of death is to place no value on life, and/or to be certain of the unknown. I believe people can convince themselves that they do not fear death, but I think this inherent fear still exists within them. Just my opinion though.
As an atheist, I completely agree. It's just something that you have to accept and push out of your mind. However, that fear remains there, even subliminally. In my case, it's led me to live an overly reckless life. It's almost like...if you dare danger and death, they seem less real.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Im definitely not afraid of death because I believe in what I believe for "afterlife", I just hope that whatever reason I go out for helps to better someone elses situation or something of that nature.
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