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Old 12-12-2006, 02:59 PM    (permalink
Shiver
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He was punished for it already. Does that mean that if he doesn't test positive from here on out, for the rest of his career, that he is steroid clean? Or as NIP wants, just assume he's a cheater at all times?
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
Don't condone it, but accept the reality of the situation. No one can accurately say who is on steroids and performance enhancers and who isn't. Say that Merriman isn't given the award, but Urlacher or Peppers are. Who is to say that those two aren't on anything? Urlacher is 6'4" 260-lbs and can run like linebackers much smaller than he is. Peppers is 6'6" 280-lbs and can move and run like a typical 3-4 rushbacker, except at 30-lbs larger. It's really easy to become paranoid and skeptical regarding pro sports.
That is not only accepting the situation, but it is accepting the use of steroids. Accepting the use of steroids results in condoning the use of steroids whether you call it that or not. It is what it is.

And to answer your question about Urlacher and Peppers, the results of the urine samples they have given say they are not on anabolic steroids. (that can be detected at least)

The fact remains that Merriman tested positive. Urlacher did not. Neither did Taylor. Neither did Bailey. As a result, you punish the ones who have tested positive first. Then, if you would like, you strengthen the testing program. Take blood samples. (which is what it takes to detect HGH) Commit money to researching better testing. And punish those who have tested positive.

If it was Urlacher or Taylor who had tested positive, I would be holding the same argument for them. I find it absolutely despicable when people think they can cut corners to artificially raise their performance level. It is not just tainting their numbers, but it ruins the game and ruins the sport on all levels.

You have to punish those who have been caught first. That's the first step and it must be done.
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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If they get blood testing, and stricter testing, then by all means punish those who are caught. The problem with this scenario is there are so many loopholes. The only thing Merriman proved to me is that he is stupid to not get away with it like the other guys. My question, does one test mean he is always disqualified for any kind of recognition in your mind?
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
He was punished for it already. Does that mean that if he doesn't test positive from here on out, for the rest of his career, that he is steroid clean? Or as NIP wants, just assume he's a cheater at all times?
absolutely not, but it means he cheated this season. thus, this season, he shouldn't be rewarded for playing illegally, and moreso because none of the other guys mentioned have tested positive for steroid use this season.

8.5 of his sacks occured while he was using steroids, i don't believe there's any way that you can justify that as making him worthy of the DPOY award. next year, if he tests clean all season, sure. this year he didn't.

(keep in mind that my argument is based on the NFL rules, if i had it my way, players would be banned for life on the first positive test)
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Okay, I agree with that. I think Taylor is more deserving anyway, but whatever. I just don't agree that Merriman should be branded for life as a cheater.
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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How ironic, Jason Taylor and the Dolphins steal protection signals. I wonder how many people think that his "cheating" invalidates his DPOY chances. :roll:
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
How ironic, Jason Taylor and the Dolphins steal protection signals. I wonder how many people think that his "cheating" invalidates his DPOY chances. :roll:
I think that the fact that Sean Salisbury thinks he is cheating validates his DPOY chances. Nobody respects Salisburys opinion.
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
He was punished for it already. Does that mean that if he doesn't test positive from here on out, for the rest of his career, that he is steroid clean? Or as NIP wants, just assume he's a cheater at all times?
absolutely not, but it means he cheated this season. thus, this season, he shouldn't be rewarded for playing illegally, and moreso because none of the other guys mentioned have tested positive for steroid use this season.

8.5 of his sacks occured while he was using steroids, i don't believe there's any way that you can justify that as making him worthy of the DPOY award. next year, if he tests clean all season, sure. this year he didn't.

(keep in mind that my argument is based on the NFL rules, if i had it my way, players would be banned for life on the first positive test)
Ok Shiver, my view of Merriman being a cheater always and forever is a little out there. It is, mostly based on the idea that if he cheated with anabolic steroids now, then he could just as easily switch to HGH after his first positive test which won't be caught because of the loopholes as you stated. My argument for the lifetime question on him is that he was caught and known to have cheated with steroids so who is to say that he didn't just go find a trainer who hooked him up with HGH so he doesn't get caught--thus sustaining his high level of performance illegally once again, but this time with an undetectable substance.

It somewhat the same argument that someone who was convicted of grand theft auto is going to be under greater suspicion (whether it is warranted or not) than someone who has not been convicted of anything if there is the same evidence.

Certainly I would agree with Njx that he should not be up for any awards this year at all because of the positive test--the fact that many of the stats he reached this year were steroid induced. And I am certainly for blood testing and stricter, more frequent testing for performance enhancing steroids as well. I also agree with Njx that the punishment should be a lot stricter. At least a full season--if not more on the first test. By the second positive test, lifetime ban and perhaps even wipe the career stats clean.
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I dont understand Chargers fans. How can you defend a player on your team who took steroids? Personally if a player on my team got caught Id hate them for the rest of my life. And I would because they let me down. Merriman let every fan of the chargers and the NFL down by taking steroids. He soiled his reputation and gained negative attention for his team. He thought of himself not what his actions effects would be on his teammates, the kids who looked up to him, and the reputation of the league's players. He looked in the face of every fan and lied to them when he said he was clean and a product of hardwork and nature. Thats why he doesnt deserve it. And that is why he should be held accountable for his actions and not have excuses made for him by "fans" of the chrgers who should hold him to higher standards than the rest of the league.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by weezer1195
I dont understand Chargers fans. How can you defend a player on your team who took steroids? Personally if a player on my team got caught Id hate them for the rest of my life. And I would because they let me down. Merriman let every fan of the chargers and the NFL down by taking steroids. He soiled his reputation and gained negative attention for his team. He thought of himself not what his actions effects would be on his teammates, the kids who looked up to him, and the reputation of the league's players. He looked in the face of every fan and lied to them when he said he was clean and a product of hardwork and nature. Thats why he doesnt deserve it. And that is why he should be held accountable for his actions and not have excuses made for him by "fans" of the chrgers who should hold him to higher standards than the rest of the league.
Merriman hasn't let me down at all. Steroids is the biggest boogeyman in pro sports today and the media has taken it and run with it, and brainwashed a lot of impressionable people as well. I suggest you spend some serious time in a gym sometime and figure out that steroids are a part of life. Merriman apologized to all of his fans and was determined to come back better than ever, and he has. People want him banned for life? What happened to giving someone a second chance? The NFL has a policy, and as long as he abides by that policy from now on he shouldn't be subject to any more jealous scrutiny.

This is sports and entertainment. It's funny and disturbing at the same time that who I assume to be grown men act like girls over an issue like steroids. Steroids have been around for years folks, and they're here to stay.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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yes he's worthy based on his play. the guy is unstoppable and changes the outcome of games. he makes big plays every game, and what he's done in less games is unbelieveable.

will he get it....no, because the league can't justify giving it to someone who got caught for what he did. it would lead to more problems down the line and nothing would be learned. the guy is a freak of nature and deserves the award if not for the suspension.

worthy, yes and no. can he get it...NO
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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I voted yes, but I don't think he'll get it. Merriman is tied for league lead in sacks while still missing four games. He's also forced four fumbles. I don't think he will get it because of the steriod suspension, but he is very well deserving of it.


I think it will end up being Jason Taylor. He's right up there with Julius Peppers, who is another nominee, as the most versatile defender in the NFL.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
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Originally Posted by weezer1195
I dont understand Chargers fans. How can you defend a player on your team who took steroids? Personally if a player on my team got caught Id hate them for the rest of my life. And I would because they let me down. Merriman let every fan of the chargers and the NFL down by taking steroids. He soiled his reputation and gained negative attention for his team. He thought of himself not what his actions effects would be on his teammates, the kids who looked up to him, and the reputation of the league's players. He looked in the face of every fan and lied to them when he said he was clean and a product of hardwork and nature. Thats why he doesnt deserve it. And that is why he should be held accountable for his actions and not have excuses made for him by "fans" of the chrgers who should hold him to higher standards than the rest of the league.
Merriman hasn't let me down at all. Steroids is the biggest boogeyman in pro sports today and the media has taken it and run with it, and brainwashed a lot of impressionable people as well. I suggest you spend some serious time in a gym sometime and figure out that steroids are a part of life.

*snip*

This is sports and entertainment. It's funny and disturbing at the same time that who I assume to be grown men act like girls over an issue like steroids. Steroids have been around for years folks, and they're here to stay.
that's absolutely pathetic. steroids were NEVER a part of my high school's weight program. they were NEVER a part of the weight program of the college i played at.

by this disgusting reasoning, all sports should just legalize them, and, should actually push their athletes to take them. because, they're such a part of sports.

this is just homerism. that's the only honest explanation for the lengths you're going to.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
How ironic, Jason Taylor and the Dolphins steal protection signals. I wonder how many people think that his "cheating" invalidates his DPOY chances. :roll:
link it.
There is no way you can compare using steroids and stealing signals. No way
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
How ironic, Jason Taylor and the Dolphins steal protection signals. I wonder how many people think that his "cheating" invalidates his DPOY chances. :roll:
link it.
There is no way you can compare using steroids and stealing signals. No way
yeah, found the thread below. i'm curious, if you were going to make that comparison, where, in the rules, stealing signs is illegal. i can find the passage that makes certain substances illegal if the charger fans are going to try to argue next that it's somehow the same thing.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
How ironic, Jason Taylor and the Dolphins steal protection signals. I wonder how many people think that his "cheating" invalidates his DPOY chances. :roll:
link it.
There is no way you can compare using steroids and stealing signals. No way
yeah, found the thread below. i'm curious, if you were going to make that comparison, where, in the rules, stealing signs is illegal. i can find the passage that makes certain substances illegal if the charger fans are going to try to argue next that it's somehow the same thing.
its so stupid how people think that little voice thing makes a team a cheater..... seriosly, if you whine that you lost because of some voice recording then you've got issues.....
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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no Merrimen does not deserve it. Hes tested positive for steroids. We should all think about that for a second. He took a drug that upped his physical state of being. He took a drug that gave him an advantage over his opponents. Does he Merrimen have great talent? Yes. But how much of his physical play is all natural? How much is his ability gym work or is it chemical?

My question to the fans is how can we give a guy an award with these questions lingering about him?


If Urlacher took steroids I would immediately discount anything hes done. Anybody who takes them doesnt deserve an award. Does a cheater who stole someones answers deserve the A he gets? Definately not. Im sure most ppl will retaliate to this by saying "well im sure you've cheated." Yes I have. But i am not getting payed to play a game. I am not a guy that can devote all my time to practicing, and weight lifting to become stronger.

well thats the end of my rant. I think it was a damn good rant if I do say so myself.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by weezer1195
I dont understand Chargers fans. How can you defend a player on your team who took steroids? Personally if a player on my team got caught Id hate them for the rest of my life. And I would because they let me down. Merriman let every fan of the chargers and the NFL down by taking steroids. He soiled his reputation and gained negative attention for his team. He thought of himself not what his actions effects would be on his teammates, the kids who looked up to him, and the reputation of the league's players. He looked in the face of every fan and lied to them when he said he was clean and a product of hardwork and nature. Thats why he doesnt deserve it. And that is why he should be held accountable for his actions and not have excuses made for him by "fans" of the chrgers who should hold him to higher standards than the rest of the league.
Merriman hasn't let me down at all. Steroids is the biggest boogeyman in pro sports today and the media has taken it and run with it, and brainwashed a lot of impressionable people as well. I suggest you spend some serious time in a gym sometime and figure out that steroids are a part of life.

*snip*

This is sports and entertainment. It's funny and disturbing at the same time that who I assume to be grown men act like girls over an issue like steroids. Steroids have been around for years folks, and they're here to stay.
that's absolutely pathetic. steroids were NEVER a part of my high school's weight program. they were NEVER a part of the weight program of the college i played at.

by this disgusting reasoning, all sports should just legalize them, and, should actually push their athletes to take them. because, they're such a part of sports.

this is just homerism. that's the only honest explanation for the lengths you're going to.
Whether steroid use is ethical or not in pro sports is up for debate. I'm not condoning it neccessarily, only trying to raise the awareness of this issue. Please try to follow along.

The NFL has a policy in place. If Merriman wishes to be an NFL player, he has to abide by that policy. He says he made a mistake. He knows he can't be a steroid user and be in the NFL.

The poster I responded to seemed to be calling out Chargers fans for supporting their player, asking why we're not ashamed of him. Why should we be? He apologized for it. If this was cocaine and not steroids, people wouldn't be going to the lengths that THEY'RE going to (calling for him to be banned, saying every fan of the NFL should be ashamed of him).

I think the whole steroid issue in team sports is highly overblown (this is an aside from the Merriman issue, ive thought this for years about Baseball as well). Maybe they should be outlawed, but to slander and shame players with a positive test here or there is wrong. Steroids don't have the dramatic effect people assume they have and aren't nearly as harmful as the media makes them out to be. In fact I believe pro sports should encourage the use of safe steroids that help with recovery times and reduce the risk of serious injury to players.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:20 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:24 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
:roll:

Stop whining.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:29 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCybulski
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
:roll:

Stop whining.
Nobody's whining. The Broncos' cowardly blocking style is what it is. Just don't lecture anyone else on fairness and ethics.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:30 PM    (permalink
Xonraider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
I beg you, tell me how the holy roller was illegal, there was no such rule that prohibited what happened.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:32 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCybulski
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
:roll:

Stop whining.
Nobody's whining. The Broncos' cowardly blocking style is what it is. Just don't lecture anyone else on fairness and ethics.
So you mean cheating, and putting harmful things in your body that not only send the wrong message to kids, but gives a player an unfair advantage, is equal to a perfectly legal and strategically benificial maneuver. Okay there, Einstein.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:37 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCybulski
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCybulski
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
:roll:

Stop whining.
Nobody's whining. The Broncos' cowardly blocking style is what it is. Just don't lecture anyone else on fairness and ethics.
So you mean cheating, and putting harmful things in your body that not only send the wrong message to kids, but gives a player an unfair advantage, is equal to a perfectly legal and strategically benificial maneuver. Okay there, Einstein.
Didn't the Broncos win two championships with admitted "cheater" Bill Romanowski? Are you ashamed of your two championships? Are you all for giving them back?
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