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Old 12-13-2006, 01:03 PM    (permalink
cowboysforever
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Hi Thule,

With respect to Springs at FS I dunno enuff of Springs. I would assume a 3rd player picked in the draft who is injury prone may convert nicely to FS.

Why Deadskins would want two SS who can't cover by accepting Williams is an open question.

But again I go back to strategy, we need at least two position upgardes in the middle of the field with much more speed. Guys who can cover.

Take your pick of two -- Roy, Keith, Akin, Bradie or Fergie. I select Keith and Bradie.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Thule, with respect to you SD comparison at Bengals I must potest.

1 SD was on the road
2 SD was not in a must win
3 Carson Palmer
4 They effectively shut down Cincy in the second half
5 SD won
6 SD is vulnerable in pass game and not the best D in league but boy can they pass rush
7 Big injuries on D for that game.

Cowboys D is over rated. Why? Because the players that where expected to greatly improve -- Canty, Spears and Ware -- have not and the others are same as last year except for Fergie.

Sorry, but this D had one game they played to potential. Indy.

If Spears, Canty, and Ware can become above average pass rushers we would be talking a different story. If this where the case, I would put them in SD's class right behind Baltimore.

Baltimore has no weakness that is severly exploitable and is the only team in the league to say that.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Hi Thule,

With respect to Springs at FS I dunno enuff of Springs. I would assume a 3rd player picked in the draft who is injury prone may convert nicely to FS.

Why Deadskins would want two SS who can't cover by accepting Williams is an open question.

But again I go back to strategy, we need at least two position upgardes in the middle of the field with much more speed. Guys who can cover.

Take your pick of two -- Roy, Keith, Akin, Bradie or Fergie. I select Keith and Bradie.
Why in the hell would we have to upgrade Roy, Akin and Bradie? They Do there jobs of tackling, hitting and stuffing the run. And they do it very well. Despite what you think it takes more then speed to make a great defense. And when did it become that a NT had to be fast? And if you didn't know, and I'm guessing you don't looking at you ignorant and sometimes moronic posts, we just gave Bradie and Roy extensions, so your plan to get rid of him will probably never come into fruition. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Of all the Cowboy WR who can be a 1 -- Austin has the body type and speed. Dunno about hands, work ethis or quickness.

Crayton and Hurd are slow but both have GREAT HANDS. But really guys, these are two 3/4 receivers at best.

Gin may be fastest guy in draft but Johnson and Rice look to be lock 1 receivers IMHO. Gotta see Jarret's 40 cuz he may be another M Williams who can be extracted cheap from Detroit.

Moore in Miami has all the talent but ...... Another U head case.

Breaston is Ginn but cheaper if a bit slower though bigger.

Smardzjia is a two -- possesion guy who is not any better than Gonzalez from OSU.

Who else in the draft?

Manningham in UoM might be best 1 next year. DeSean is another Ginn for next year. But they are both sophmores. Maybe Monk from Arkansas and the big guy from Rutgers?

Hey, how about signing Johnson from Houston? Aint he a UFA this year? Skip drafting a WR cuz we aint gettin one of the top three.

Anyway....
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Paul, please don't point out the obvious with respect to contracts.

That BP and JBJ have handed out some odd contracts to Ayodele, James, Williams and Kosier are not lost on me.

Kosier and Ayodele where not even wanted by their teams and was the source of some serious questions.

James and Williams (TO and Vanderjerk) are seemingly JBJ emotionalism if you ask me.

With respect to NT speed -- please don't torture my argument for more speed as proposing a CB for NT. Silly strawman argument.

But a NT with more speed and quickness between the hash markd would nice. Maybe a little upfield push. Maybe Shaun Rogers who is in Marinelli's dog house?????
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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welcome to the forums Al Davis!
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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My biggest concern about Atlanta is containing Vick running and Crumpler over the middle against our safeties and LBs who struggle covering good athletic TEs. I'm also concerned about our OTs pass blocking Kerney and Abraham. Atlanta seems to be banged up with injuries that may play a large factor in the game especially if Dunn or Norwood or even both can't play. I'm not sure if Abraham is healthy and playing but he presents a big challenge for whichever OT he goes against. If we can stop their run game I think we'll win fairly easily but that's a lot easier said than done. I'm definitely concerned about the game in general for all the implications it holds, we really control our own destiny if we win.

I really hope our D has learned from their mistakes against NO especially as it relates to the short throws to the FB in the flat as Atlanta has a really good FB in Griffith.
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpl85
My biggest concern about Atlanta is containing Vick running and Crumpler over the middle against our safeties and LBs who struggle covering good athletic TEs. I'm also concerned about our OTs pass blocking Kerney and Abraham. Atlanta seems to be banged up with injuries that may play a large factor in the game especially if Dunn or Norwood or even both can't play. I'm not sure if Abraham is healthy and playing but he presents a big challenge for whichever OT he goes against. If we can stop their run game I think we'll win fairly easily but that's a lot easier said than done. I'm definitely concerned about the game in general for all the implications it holds, we really control our own destiny if we win.

I really hope our D has learned from their mistakes against NO especially as it relates to the short throws to the FB in the flat as Atlanta has a really good FB in Griffith.
Thank you! That was getting tedious.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dpl85
I'm also concerned about our OTs pass blocking Kerney and Abraham.
Kerney has been on IR for 3-4 weeks now. Chauncey Davis hasn't been doing much in his place, so we should be able to double Abraham a lot.

Abraham has been playing. He has been playing pretty well too.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dpl85
I'm also concerned about our OTs pass blocking Kerney and Abraham.
Kerney has been on IR for 3-4 weeks now. Chauncey Davis hasn't been doing much in his place, so we should be able to double Abraham a lot.

Abraham has been playing. He has been playing pretty well too.
He's getting healthier, which is scary. I'm also concerned about Coleman up the middle. He's an excellent pass rushing DT.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm highly critical of the fact that we failed to adequately address the FS need this past offseason either in FA or a first day draft pick. We are having many of the same coverage problems at FS and SS for that matter we had last year. I can't help but think, damn we could've signed Chris Hope who has had a really good season with the Titans or drafted Ko Simposn who is apparently playing pretty well for the Bills.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpl85
I'm highly critical of the fact that we failed to adequately address the FS need this past offseason either in FA or a first day draft pick. We are having many of the same coverage problems at FS and SS for that matter we had last year. I can't help but think, damn we could've signed Chris Hope who has had a really good season with the Titans or drafted Ko Simposn who is apparently playing pretty well for the Bills.
Coming into this season I was actually content with the FS position. I was huge fan of Watkins in the draft, and I thought the addition of a Vet like coleman would of gave us talent and depth. Man was I wrong. I'm not giving up on Watkins yet, but that position has been hell to fill ever since woody left.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Default tedious?

Tedious are the posters who come to a 'Play GM' site and are nasty to other posters for whatever opinions they have.

Also should mention tedious are the folks who regurgitate ESPN and Sport talk shallow thoughts and think it gospel. A lie repeated a thousand times is still a lie.

Which gets to my next point, I was actually reading a poster who was writing Manning was an average QB and Rivers was better and that person was run off the Giants board some weeks back before the slump they had. Popular is not always right even if easier

Anyway, Saturday comes down to whether Vick runs crazy versus a slow Dallas D and if they can contain the edge speed of the Atl tailbacks.......
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Thule, did you lose a bet or something? What's with the sig?
Ya I bet henderson wouldn't be a threat in our game. He would be held under 88 yards. He got 92
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: tedious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Tedious are the posters who come to a 'Play GM' site and are nasty to other posters for whatever opinions they have.

Also should mention tedious are the folks who regurgitate ESPN and Sport talk shallow thoughts and think it gospel. A lie repeated a thousand times is still a lie.

Which gets to my next point, I was actually reading a poster who was writing Manning was an average QB and Rivers was better and that person was run off the Giants board some weeks back before the slump they had. Popular is not always right even if easier

Anyway, Saturday comes down to whether Vick runs crazy versus a slow Dallas D and if they can contain the edge speed of the Atl tailbacks.......
Well ATL's running backs are both listed as questionable. Which means if they play they won't be at 100%...I don't worry about that. Giffin sure doesn't have the speed to scare me. Parcells already has talked about gameplanning against Vick. So if anything is the key to this game...its will Vick be effective in the passing game.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm highly critical of the fact that we failed to adequately address the FS need this past offseason either in FA or a first day draft pick. We are having many of the same coverage problems at FS and SS for that matter we had last year. I can't help but think, damn we could've signed Chris Hope who has had a really good season with the Titans or drafted Ko Simposn who is apparently playing pretty well for the Bills.
Well Ko went on the 2nd day. And many of us here had us selecting Watkins in the third. So had we picked him in the third would you be as happy since we addressed it on the first day. Watkins had first day talent...we all know that. He just needed a bit a tuning before he's ready for the NFL. He has tons of experience his body just needs some work. And if i'm not mistaken didn't you also want us to sign will demps? We all see how that is working. Its easy to say we should have drafted Ko. But who's to say he would be starting here. Watkins ran faster then him....so looking back at the draft if you had an option for Ko or Watkins...and we needed a centerfielder...you can't tell me you select Ko. Plain and simple.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Of all the Cowboy WR who can be a 1 -- Austin has the body type and speed. Dunno about hands, work ethis or quickness.

Crayton and Hurd are slow but both have GREAT HANDS. But really guys, these are two 3/4 receivers at best.

Gin may be fastest guy in draft but Johnson and Rice look to be lock 1 receivers IMHO. Gotta see Jarret's 40 cuz he may be another M Williams who can be extracted cheap from Detroit.

Moore in Miami has all the talent but ...... Another U head case.

Breaston is Ginn but cheaper if a bit slower though bigger.

Smardzjia is a two -- possesion guy who is not any better than Gonzalez from OSU.

Who else in the draft?

Manningham in UoM might be best 1 next year. DeSean is another Ginn for next year. But they are both sophmores. Maybe Monk from Arkansas and the big guy from Rutgers?

Hey, how about signing Johnson from Houston? Aint he a UFA this year? Skip drafting a WR cuz we aint gettin one of the top three.

Anyway....
Sometimes I think you know what your talking about...and sometimes your remind me of the great cowboys poster Trojan14 . Johnson was probablly the most highly talented WR to come out of the draft in 10 years. Obviously every team in the league would be going after him. But this doesn't matter because he is not a FA. The most prolific FA WR in this years class is Drew Bennett from the titans. I have proved you wrong time and time again. You should work on your research.

Bottomline is...
1. teams don't give players contract extentions to ship them(James)
2. Teams don't cut/trade players who have performed as expected(akin)
3. It's not so much as finding a number 1 WR is it is a compliment to Hurd/Crayton. We aren't in position to draft a top flight WR...the only one we have a realistic shot at is Rice...and rumor has it he's staying.
4. Mike Williams is playing in a pass happy offense...and still isn't seeing the field. You don't invest a top 10 pick into a guy and not play him because you dont' like him. I have still yet to see a source saying he would be cheap to extract.

When you start pointing out some facts...I'll start taking your ideas seriously. Last year FA WR's moved cheaply...you still haven't backed that one up. It's one thing to come in here and debate. But when you do it bring hard facts...otherwise your ideas will be taken as a grain of salt.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: tedious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Tedious are the posters who come to a 'Play GM' site and are nasty to other posters for whatever opinions they have.

Also should mention tedious are the folks who regurgitate ESPN and Sport talk shallow thoughts and think it gospel. A lie repeated a thousand times is still a lie.

Which gets to my next point, I was actually reading a poster who was writing Manning was an average QB and Rivers was better and that person was run off the Giants board some weeks back before the slump they had. Popular is not always right even if easier

Anyway, Saturday comes down to whether Vick runs crazy versus a slow Dallas D and if they can contain the edge speed of the Atl tailbacks.......
if you could even explain the duties of the positions in the front seven of a 3-4 I would be surprised.

Spears to NT explain why you think Spears would be a good NT. Could he take on two blockers and clog the middle? Why get rid of Ferguson when he has been one of the best players on D and is one of the most consistant?

Henry to safety and a young guy start CB? Who would you want to start? What have you seen from that person that makes you think they can start? Why make CB questionable to fix the FS position?

Bring in a young WR that has done nothing HOPING that he turns around? I would rather we don't play the lottery with free agency. The draft is the only place you pick up unproven players. Free agency you get players that show they are capable.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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I hope we have parrish in for this game. there is no way he could do worse than davis. and if parrish isnt ready, id like to see watkins over davis. What do you guys think?

Also, im thinking we need to put newman on crumpler like we do with shockey. I dont think henry and glenn should have a big problem with their recievers; the big problem would be crumpler on the FS, williams, or a linebacker.

the 1 and 2 running backs are supposed to be banged up and might not even play.

We should just be concernced with vick getting outside of the pocket and pulling a reggie bush on us, DE containment is crucial.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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This might anger alot of you, but I just want to bring it up and see what you guys think.

As much as you guys love Roy Williams, is he just as much of a hindrance as he is a playmaker?

Ive been very supportive of him so far this year, he has played for the most part very solidly. But the problem with him won't go away, and can screw your team over for years...its his coverage.

I know he's a game changer with his hits, and his run support, but is doing just that worth the money you invested in him? There are alot of SS out there that can tackle in the box and blitz and hit hard, but none make Roy Williams money.

Your SS is supposed to be the guy who can cover the TE if the LB can't. Right now, with Carpenter slumping, you guys have no one who can cover the TE. The FS is supposed to be the deepball safety valve, not the guy who covers the TE, so thinking that a FS will solve that problem is not correct.

You need a LB who can cover the TE, or a SS who can. Right now, with Carp playing poorly, you have neither. And its VERY hard finding a LB who can adequately "shut down" if you will, a TE, which usually means a SS is the guy most teams turn to nowadays to stop dominant TEs.

So is Roy worth the investment? Im not asking if he's a good player, Im asking if Roy was worth the money he got. I say yes if and only if Carp can become the TE coverage LB most anticipated. If not, then this could get ugly.

The entire team's play will dramatically increase however if you get a FS, I definately agree with that. Right now, you have no coverage Safeties, and it sucks. I know, we have the same problem in NYG land.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Thuley's Week 15 Big Board

My Two Round Big Board

Round One
1- Justin Blalock (won't likely be available...but OG don't go real early)
2- Tank Tyler (Should be available later...has been great all year)
3- Josh Wilson (Maybe a reach now...this kid is Aaron Glenn v2. He has had a great year...is lightning quick. Not only that but his punt return/kick return abilities would really be his strong suite year one.
4- Reggie Nelson (Probabally the best ball skills of all the safety)
5- Hughes (one will be gone by the time we pick)

Dropped
Michael Johnson (this guy is fast could jump to round one post combine)
- He is fast...but going back and watching tape on him I noticed he wasn't someone with great instincts. He seemed to reactive...we need someone with instincts.

Round Two
1- Craig Davis (underrated speedster outta LSU. Really like him)
2- Tom Zbikowski (Couldn't be worse then Davis...contribute right away)
3- Ryan Kalil (showed in the bowl game he can produce)
4- Tony Ugoh (he could play LT or RT...very balanced blocker)
5- Johnnie Lee Higgins (been UTEP's only weapon all year and been dominant)
6- Steve Smith (Smart, polished, nfl ready, quick...I like that combo)

When trying to evaluate our 2nd round needs it gets hard. We don't really have alot of needs. So do you go OG here...when you can find about the same talent on the second day. I mean Grubbs/Sears are two guys I could see in our range...but neither of them really show me anything that so other later prospects do. I mean we need a small quick WR for the future...but would probabally have to have a impact on special teams to make the team. CB class is deep so someone could drop...but you can't assume those things. FS is a need...but would a guy like Welding really be an upgrade? This draft appears as a crap shoot for me. I really won't be surprised to see us trade up. I don't know if Parcells has ever done it this early...but I really love the ties to Ginn. I'm hopeing Glenn is doing some talking to Big Bill. Their similarities are striking. I still think we address our OG position in the offseason. So I really get lost on where we pick with our later picks. There are only 4 players I see as guys who could contribute right away that we have somewhat of a shot at.

1. Ginn
2. Tank
3. Wilson
4. Nelson
Those four guys could do alot for us right away. Any tips or guys to look at would be appriciated.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Zibkowski is NOT the answer. He's Roy Williams part 2. In fact, his coverage is worse. He couldn't cover a DT in the NFL let alone a WR/TE.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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This might anger alot of you, but I just want to bring it up and see what you guys think.

As much as you guys love Roy Williams, is he just as much of a hindrance as he is a playmaker?

Ive been very supportive of him so far this year, he has played for the most part very solidly. But the problem with him won't go away, and can screw your team over for years...its his coverage.

I know he's a game changer with his hits, and his run support, but is doing just that worth the money you invested in him? There are alot of SS out there that can tackle in the box and blitz and hit hard, but none make Roy Williams money.

Your SS is supposed to be the guy who can cover the TE if the LB can't. Right now, with Carpenter slumping, you guys have no one who can cover the TE. The FS is supposed to be the deepball safety valve, not the guy who covers the TE, so thinking that a FS will solve that problem is not correct.

You need a LB who can cover the TE, or a SS who can. Right now, with Carp playing poorly, you have neither. And its VERY hard finding a LB who can adequately "shut down" if you will, a TE, which usually means a SS is the guy most teams turn to nowadays to stop dominant TEs.

So is Roy worth the investment? Im not asking if he's a good player, Im asking if Roy was worth the money he got. I say yes if and only if Carp can become the TE coverage LB most anticipated. If not, then this could get ugly.

The entire team's play will dramatically increase however if you get a FS, I definately agree with that. Right now, you have no coverage Safeties, and it sucks. I know, we have the same problem in NYG land.
I don't understand what your getting at. We did sign Roy to an extension. I'm sure we factored that in when we gave him the extention. Bottomline is our young players need to develop. Would we be having this talk if Carp and Watkins stepped up? Just like me and LSU were saying earlier....Teams with rookies contributing right away aren't great teams. We can't expect Carp to learn the roles of SOLB and ILB and then expect him to be moved back and forth. If anything bad came from the ellis injury it was the stunt of Carp's development. He just needs time. Watkins played well when in there but he just doesn't have the body right now to play in the NFL. I definately say we see solid improvement by both of them next year. The way we run our 3-4 it is almost designed exclusively for out SOLB to take the TE. We seem to leave the RB's for the CB in cover 2 of the ILB's rolling out. This is why we got burned...in the NO game until later in the game where we started rolling Ware out on the RB. This is a problem...but I don't think Parcells has the trust in Carp/Singleton to ask them to man up on the TE...which is why Roy is getting exposed. Once we have a SOLB who is developed...I think we'll see Roy's breakdowns in coverage less occuring. Bottomline is our SOLB needs to step up. Has anyone else noticed since Ellis went down we have seen our safeties chasing more recievers deep lately?
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Zibkowski is NOT the answer. He's Roy Williams part 2. In fact, his coverage is worse. He couldn't cover a DT in the NFL let alone a WR/TE.
Well here is the way I look at it. Zibby could solve our punt return problem from the start. Not only this but he could contribute to all special teams units. The reason I link him to big d is obvious because of the weis connection. I'm sure noone could predict us going after fasano last year. But it happened. The thing is Zibby could play FS for us. He would be an upgrade over Davis...and would make Davis expendable. Maybe we ship him...who knows. We all know that Payton wanted him this offseason. My point is we could bring in a younger guy would could essentially replace Davis's job on this team. Watkins has everything we look for he just isn't physically ready to play in this league. Weighing in all the factors...and the fact that we don't have alot of needs...I think Zibby would fit well as a 1st/2nd down FS on running downs and then let Watkins play the nickel/passing situations.

This has been debated here before between me/d/and ward but I suppose you can see both sides. I don't plan on changing your oppinion because we obviously have different views.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Thuley's Week 15 Big Board

My Two Round Big Board

Round One
1- Justin Blalock (won't likely be available...but OG don't go real early)
2- Tank Tyler (Should be available later...has been great all year)
3- Josh Wilson (Maybe a reach now...this kid is Aaron Glenn v2. He has had a great year...is lightning quick. Not only that but his punt return/kick return abilities would really be his strong suite year one.
4- Reggie Nelson (Probabally the best ball skills of all the safety)
5- Hughes (one will be gone by the time we pick)

Dropped
Michael Johnson (this guy is fast could jump to round one post combine)
- He is fast...but going back and watching tape on him I noticed he wasn't someone with great instincts. He seemed to reactive...we need someone with instincts.

Round Two
1- Ryan Kalil (showed in the bowl game he can produce)
2- Tony Ugoh (he could play LT or RT...very balanced blocker)
3- Tom Zbikowski (Couldn't be worse then Davis...contribute right away)
4- Johnnie Lee Higgins (been UTEP's only weapon all year and been dominant)
5- Steve Smith (Smart, polished, nfl ready, quick...I like that combo)

When trying to evaluate our 2nd round needs it gets hard. We don't really have alot of needs. So do you go OG here...when you can find about the same talent on the second day. I mean Grubbs/Sears are two guys I could see in our range...but neither of them really show me anything that so other later prospects do. I mean we need a small quick WR for the future...but would probabally have to have a impact on special teams to make the team. CB class is deep so someone could drop...but you can't assume those things. FS is a need...but would a guy like Welding really be an upgrade? This draft appears as a crap shoot for me. I really won't be surprised to see us trade up. I don't know if Parcells has ever done it this early...but I really love the ties to Ginn. I'm hopeing Glenn is doing some talking to Big Bill. Their similarities are striking. I still think we address our OG position in the offseason. So I really get lost on where we pick with our later picks. There are only 4 players I see as guys who could contribute right away that we have somewhat of a shot at.

1. Ginn
2. Tank
3. Wilson
4. Nelson
Those four guys could do alot for us right away. Any tips or guys to look at would be appriciated.
I know were all in love with Blalock, and believe me I wouldn't mine if we got him, but the OG pool this year is really deep. With Manual Rameirez, Ben Grubbs, Beekman and so forth. Guys who I think we can get in the 2nd round. I would like to see us get athletes on the offensive side of the ball in the first round. Sidney Rice, Ginn, Meachum or maybe Jarrett. But if we do land Blalock, I would be happy with Bowe in the 2nd.

Random question, but what's the stalk talk of Aaron Rouse? Is he a good FS candidate, and where is he projected?
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