Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

View Poll Results: Is Whitlock right?
yes 35 76.09%
no 11 23.91%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2008, 02:19 AM    (permalink
kmartin575
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 976
Reputation: -76
kmartin575 needs more cowbell.
Default

I won't try to make this about Derrick Thomas again but Whitlock wrote almost the exact same column in the Kansas City Star except this time it was slanted towards Derrick Thomas deserving it over guys like Dean and Monk. I just found it funny that to avoid being thought of as biased he completely avoided Derrick Thomas' name in this article even though it is almost exactly the same article as the one in the KC Star.
kmartin575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 03:00 AM    (permalink
someone447
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 4,791
Reputation: 35170
someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Name me a few of those QBs please?
Joe Namath, Troy Aikman.

Well, I may be slightly biased against Aikman, but I don't think he deserves to be in.

Joe Namath DEFINITELY does not deserve to be in. He is only in because of the guarantee.
__________________
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson
someone447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 03:17 AM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,764
Reputation: 9588
Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Dirt Dawson should be in. I know OL and S are two hard positions to be enshrined with. But Dawson could certainly make a case for GOAT.
__________________

Yeah, I play WoW too.[/center]
Mr. Stiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 07:53 AM    (permalink
SaintsFanForLife
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: THE ROCK
Posts: 2,465
Reputation: 6495
SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.SaintsFanForLife wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinzzfan25 View Post
Which is exactly why media members should not be voting these guys in.
I know im with you on this one.
__________________

Sick Sig by BoneKrusher

WHO DAT
SaintsFanForLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 02:31 PM    (permalink
T-RICH49
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chilling with HOF Hosmer
Posts: 13,984
Reputation: 191970
T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.T-RICH49 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
I won't try to make this about Derrick Thomas again but Whitlock wrote almost the exact same column in the Kansas City Star except this time it was slanted towards Derrick Thomas deserving it over guys like Dean and Monk. I just found it funny that to avoid being thought of as biased he completely avoided Derrick Thomas' name in this article even though it is almost exactly the same article as the one in the KC Star.
exactly take the name of Derrick Thomas out and it is the same article
__________________
T-RICH49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 05:29 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,064
Reputation: 227039
BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
George Blanda played for 26 seasons and led the NFL all-time in scoring when he retired. He had passed for just under 27,000 yards and 236 TDs in a time period where football wasn't predominatly passing as it is now. Plus you should really stay away from comparing pre-70s to now.

Bob Griese led the Dolphins to three AFC titles and two Super Bowl titles. All-Pro twice and appeared in six Pro-Bowls. He was NFL Player of the year in 1971, and he played in an offense with Mercury Morris and Larry Csonka which meant ball control and steady QB play; he was the definition of that.

Joe Namath was again, as the other two, played before the current passing era we have now. He led the Jets to a victory in Super Bowl III, first one ever for the AFL. He was NFL player of the year once and he was the first QB to pass for 4,000 yards in a season. The way he carried himself help juvinize the QB position and the NFL.

Terry Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVPs. He held numerous Super Bowl and postseason records plus an MVP in 1978. The Steelers won eight division titles while Bradshaw was QB.

Collectively these guys all have two things in common; they showed longevity from the day they stepped onto the field to their last snap and they played the hardest and most scrutinzed position in all of sports.

Kurt Warner was on the scene for a good four years, got a title, and won MVP. Outside of that he has backed up and has only seen appearance due to injuries. He comes nowhere near the four above and mentioned.
The Namath arguement is weak. He was an average player, even for his time.

Griese was good, but he was in a ball control offense which really did not ask him to do much. While it was in the 70s, he still only averaged just over twenty pass attempts a game. He also never passed for 2,500 or more yards in a season, which even for his time (Namath like you said went for 4,000 in 1967) is a common thing to do.

Bradshaw was a average player surrounded by good wide receivers, good runningbacks, and an amazing defense. I mean even if Lynn Swann is overrated (in the regular season at least) the supporting cast was overrated and Bradshaw was good but not dominant or outstanding.

Blanda played like 26 years. He did not become the points leader by skill, I mean he just barely made over half of his field goal attempts (335 out of 641; 52%). He was nothing special at quarterback, either. He was a backup for most of his career and when he did get a chance to start for Houston in the 1960s he was average at best for most of his years. He played a long time, but was generally nothing special.

Kurt Warner at one point in his career had the highest career passer rating of any QB ever. Now he is third with like a 93 career passer rating, behind a couple of guys by the names of Steve and Peyton. You know, Steve Young and Peton Manning. Even in his years with Arizona he has been productive passing the football, an 85 passer rating being the lowest in his three years with the team. He had a 86 passer rating with the Giants, and he amazed with the Rams. Two MVPs and a Superbowl ring don't hurt. Let's not forget he did this with about five years less than the average quarterback, because he played arena league football and in NFL Europe until he was like 27 or 28.
__________________
Virginia Tech.
ACC Champions 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010

Next Up: 2012
BamaFalcon59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 07:27 PM    (permalink
Jay
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,542
Reputation: 5447
Jay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hair
Default

I haven't read everything here yet, but here is the best argument I can make for Andre Tippett (since I know some people questioned his inclusion):

Would you say the best defensive player in a franchises history belongs in the Hall Of Fame? A guy who played for a lot of REALLY bad teams, but still manages to rank tied for 23rd all time, today, in sacks. A guy who, when he retired, ranked in the top 5 all time in sacks. A guy who, at times, was the only really great player on his teams defense.

Andre Tippett's greatness kind of gets lost in the shuffle when compared to the great sack artists of today, kind of like one of my all time favorites, Pat Swilling. Both of those two put up huge numbers playing for some really bad teams.

Richard Dent and Derrick Thomas belong in the Hall Of Fame, absolutely no doubt in my mind, but would you say either are the greatest defensive players in the history of the Bears or Chiefs? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. Fans of those teams are way more qualified to answer that question than me.

I think, at least for this year, that may have been what got Andre Tippett the nod over those two and a couple others. Andre Tippett is, without a doubt, even today, the best defensive player in the history of the New England Patriots. Maybe that argument doesn't/shouldn't hold much weight. I don't know.

And yes, Chris Carter not getting in is also a shame. I agree. I think he gets in next year. As will Thomas.
__________________

Last edited by Jay : 02-11-2008 at 07:31 PM.
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 07:57 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 27,200
Reputation: 1766083
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
The Namath arguement is weak. He was an average player, even for his time.

Griese was good, but he was in a ball control offense which really did not ask him to do much. While it was in the 70s, he still only averaged just over twenty pass attempts a game. He also never passed for 2,500 or more yards in a season, which even for his time (Namath like you said went for 4,000 in 1967) is a common thing to do.

Bradshaw was a average player surrounded by good wide receivers, good runningbacks, and an amazing defense. I mean even if Lynn Swann is overrated (in the regular season at least) the supporting cast was overrated and Bradshaw was good but not dominant or outstanding.

Blanda played like 26 years. He did not become the points leader by skill, I mean he just barely made over half of his field goal attempts (335 out of 641; 52%). He was nothing special at quarterback, either. He was a backup for most of his career and when he did get a chance to start for Houston in the 1960s he was average at best for most of his years. He played a long time, but was generally nothing special.

Kurt Warner at one point in his career had the highest career passer rating of any QB ever. Now he is third with like a 93 career passer rating, behind a couple of guys by the names of Steve and Peyton. You know, Steve Young and Peton Manning. Even in his years with Arizona he has been productive passing the football, an 85 passer rating being the lowest in his three years with the team. He had a 86 passer rating with the Giants, and he amazed with the Rams. Two MVPs and a Superbowl ring don't hurt. Let's not forget he did this with about five years less than the average quarterback, because he played arena league football and in NFL Europe until he was like 27 or 28.
Kurt Warner has started all 16 games of an NFL Season twice. His career is defined by 3 very good years and that is pretty much it. Other than this past season he had not broken 20 TDs in a season since 2001; thats spectacular...haha! He also hasn't broken a QB rating since that 2001 season either. He started 32 games from 2002-06 and has spent his last four years as a temporary solution for a young, future QB, and the only reason he played this year was because of an injury. He was exceptional for three years and that was it; that does not equate to a Hall-of-Fame resume. He would only help Whitlock's case of "Hall-of Very Good"

One more thing you bring up the personnel that Bradshaw played with. Does Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt not mean anything to you? Just stop! Your argument that Kurt Warner should be a Hall-of-Fame QB is based off of three very good years and quite frankly that just doesn't cut it.
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:07 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 27,200
Reputation: 1766083
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

BamaFalcon59 rate these recent QBs from 1: being the best to 9: being the worst

Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:10 PM    (permalink
someone447
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 4,791
Reputation: 35170
someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Kurt Warner has started all 16 games of an NFL Season twice. His career is defined by 3 very good years and that is pretty much it. Other than this past season he had not broken 20 TDs in a season since 2001; thats spectacular...haha! He also hasn't broken a QB rating since that 2001 season either. He started 32 games from 2002-06 and has spent his last four years as a temporary solution for a young, future QB, and the only reason he played this year was because of an injury. He was exceptional for three years and that was it; that does not equate to a Hall-of-Fame resume. He would only help Whitlock's case of "Hall-of Very Good"

One more thing you bring up the personnel that Bradshaw played with. Does Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt not mean anything to you? Just stop! Your argument that Kurt Warner should be a Hall-of-Fame QB is based off of three very good years and quite frankly that just doesn't cut it.
He didn't say Warner should be in, only that he should be in over some of the guys currently already in the HOF.
__________________
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson
someone447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:13 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 27,200
Reputation: 1766083
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by someone447 View Post
He didn't say Warner should be in, only that he should be in over some of the guys currently already in the HOF.
Which he is indirectly saying that Warner is HOF caliber then otherwise he would've never made the argument.
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:17 PM    (permalink
someone447
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 4,791
Reputation: 35170
someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Which he is indirectly saying that Warner is HOF caliber then otherwise he would've never made the argument.
It seemed to me like he was agreeing with the article, that it is now the hall of very good. And that if you believe Joe Namath should be in the HOF, then Kurt Warner should also. I think I might agree with him. There are a few HOFers I would take Warner over.

Blanda, Namath, possibly Aikman, and possibly Bradshaw.
__________________
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson
someone447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:31 PM    (permalink
BuddyCHRIST
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallahassee FL
Posts: 1,948
Reputation: 65704
BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I agree with the people who say its alot better to be dominant for a shorter time than be just good for a long time, but Kurt Warner is not the example we should be using. He's more in between because he wasn't elite long enough. 3-4 years of being great and then dropping off almost completely (though hes been decent in ARZ) doesn't qualify you for the hall of fame either. A better example would be if Randy Moss retired this year (Or even after his Minnesota days) where he was the most dominant reciever for about 6-7 years.
BuddyCHRIST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:33 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 27,200
Reputation: 1766083
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyCHRIST View Post
I agree with the people who say its alot better to be dominant for a shorter time than be just good for a long time, but Kurt Warner is not the example we should be using. He's more in between because he wasn't elite long enough. 3-4 years of being great and then dropping off almost completely (though hes been decent in ARZ) doesn't qualify you for the hall of fame either. A better example would be if Randy Moss retired this year (Or even after his Minnesota days) where he was the most dominant reciever for about 6-7 years.
Standing ovation...a voice of reason
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:35 PM    (permalink
someone447
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 4,791
Reputation: 35170
someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Standing ovation...a voice of reason
No one is actually arguing that Kurt Warner should make the HOF... Only that he is better than a couple people in it. That means that those people SHOULDN'T BE IN IT!
__________________
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson
someone447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 09:13 PM    (permalink
andyjo672
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 922
Reputation: 60112
andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.andyjo672 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I dont know if Cris Carter and Marvin Harrison are good comparisons. I agree, Marvin is a first ballot HOFer. But someone has already made the point about Peyton Manning, while Carter had Sean Salisbury, Rich Gannon (pre MVP years), Warren Moon, Jim McMahon, and other far from stellar QBs (Warren was pretty good, I guess). But they were also different receivers. Harrison in his prime was a stretch the field type of receiver, thus, the higher yardage averages. But, Harrison also get 143 catches in a year while not necessarily being a true "posession" receiver is amazing.
andyjo672 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 12:56 AM    (permalink
Average OT LB
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philawarepragueacago
Posts: 865
Reputation: 647
Average OT LB is a cocksman.Average OT LB is a cocksman.Average OT LB is a cocksman.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
The Namath arguement is weak. He was an average player, even for his time.

Griese was good, but he was in a ball control offense which really did not ask him to do much. While it was in the 70s, he still only averaged just over twenty pass attempts a game. He also never passed for 2,500 or more yards in a season, which even for his time (Namath like you said went for 4,000 in 1967) is a common thing to do.
Statistics arent really what got Griese Into the Hall of fame.. Although I agree that Griese may not be as quality a quarterback as some players getting snubs in todays age, I do not feel as though that should be a determining factor for him not being HOF worthy. I believe back in the day, voters considered quarterbacks the starting pitcher (Win/Loss record attached) of the team, so whether or not the quarterback lead his team to vicotry determined his level of greatness. Think about it, no quarterback before Marino really put up huge statistical seasons that just boggled the mind; it was about winning. You see guys like Bradshaw and Greise and even namath to a degree in the HOF because they were winners.. Its hard to penalize guys who have: won 4 super bowls and 2 mvps, played on an undefeated team and quarterbacked championship teams, broke a milestone (4000 yards) and basically ignited the NFL; all because they didnt exact impress statistically.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Blanda played like 26 years. He did not become the points leader by skill, I mean he just barely made over half of his field goal attempts (335 out of 641; 52%). He was nothing special at quarterback, either. He was a backup for most of his career and when he did get a chance to start for Houston in the 1960s he was average at best for most of his years. He played a long time, but was generally nothing special.
I agree with you here to an extent because i believe he also had the INT record(s?) till favre broke them... :) but still, 26 years of kicking running and throwing should be enough..
__________________


sig by bosanac01
Average OT LB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 10:08 AM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,705
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I haven't read everything here yet, but here is the best argument I can make for Andre Tippett (since I know some people questioned his inclusion):

Would you say the best defensive player in a franchises history belongs in the Hall Of Fame? A guy who played for a lot of REALLY bad teams, but still manages to rank tied for 23rd all time, today, in sacks. A guy who, when he retired, ranked in the top 5 all time in sacks. A guy who, at times, was the only really great player on his teams defense.

Andre Tippett's greatness kind of gets lost in the shuffle when compared to the great sack artists of today, kind of like one of my all time favorites, Pat Swilling. Both of those two put up huge numbers playing for some really bad teams.

Richard Dent and Derrick Thomas belong in the Hall Of Fame, absolutely no doubt in my mind, but would you say either are the greatest defensive players in the history of the Bears or Chiefs? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. Fans of those teams are way more qualified to answer that question than me.

I think, at least for this year, that may have been what got Andre Tippett the nod over those two and a couple others. Andre Tippett is, without a doubt, even today, the best defensive player in the history of the New England Patriots. Maybe that argument doesn't/shouldn't hold much weight. I don't know.

And yes, Chris Carter not getting in is also a shame. I agree. I think he gets in next year. As will Thomas.
So, why hasn't Randy Gradishar, by far the best defensive player in the Broncos history, not get voted in? Gradishar, from what I've read, was on par with the other great LB's from his era, but he continues to get shafted. He should've gotten in over Tippet.
You don't know how annoyed I got when I heard Tippet got in over the likes of Thomas, Gradishar and Carter.
and the reason why Tippet was ranked so high in sacks, is because it didn't even become a statistic recorded by the NFL until the 1980's.
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 02:12 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
#1 Vickscuser
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LakerLand
Posts: 13,130
Reputation: 628697
yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yourfavestoner is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyCHRIST View Post
I agree with the people who say its alot better to be dominant for a shorter time than be just good for a long time, but Kurt Warner is not the example we should be using. He's more in between because he wasn't elite long enough. 3-4 years of being great and then dropping off almost completely (though hes been decent in ARZ) doesn't qualify you for the hall of fame either. A better example would be if Randy Moss retired this year (Or even after his Minnesota days) where he was the most dominant reciever for about 6-7 years.
Exactly. Another example that we could use is Tony Boselli. Easily the best lineman of his era, except that his career was cut short by idiotic doctors who butchered his shoulders.
yourfavestoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 04:33 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,064
Reputation: 227039
BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Kurt Warner has started all 16 games of an NFL Season twice. His career is defined by 3 very good years and that is pretty much it. Other than this past season he had not broken 20 TDs in a season since 2001; thats spectacular...haha! He also hasn't broken a QB rating since that 2001 season either. He started 32 games from 2002-06 and has spent his last four years as a temporary solution for a young, future QB, and the only reason he played this year was because of an injury. He was exceptional for three years and that was it; that does not equate to a Hall-of-Fame resume. He would only help Whitlock's case of "Hall-of Very Good"

One more thing you bring up the personnel that Bradshaw played with. Does Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt not mean anything to you? Just stop! Your argument that Kurt Warner should be a Hall-of-Fame QB is based off of three very good years and quite frankly that just doesn't cut it.
I did not say he should be in the Hall of Fame, you asked if I thought he should go and I said he deserved it over some others. You brought up Warner.

That means you are changing the subject.
__________________
Virginia Tech.
ACC Champions 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010

Next Up: 2012
BamaFalcon59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 04:34 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,064
Reputation: 227039
BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BamaFalcon59 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Which he is indirectly saying that Warner is HOF caliber then otherwise he would've never made the argument.
No, it means the guys he should be in over should have never made it in.
__________________
Virginia Tech.
ACC Champions 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010

Next Up: 2012
BamaFalcon59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.