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Old 02-23-2008, 12:50 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
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Originally Posted by 20yardline View Post
Don Hutson 4.2 Catches a game 68.9 yards per game and .85 touchdowns per game
Crazy Legs Hirsch 3.0 catches for 55.7 yards per game and 0.47 touchdowns per game
Lavelli 3.1 catches for 52.7 yards per game and 0.58 touchdowns per game

Here is Rice vs. other receivers of his era and shortly after.

Jerry Rice 5.1 catches a game for 75.6 yards per game and 0.65 touchdowns/game
Randy Moss 5.0 catches a game for 79.1 yards per game and 0.81 touchdowns/game
Sterling Sharpe 5.3 catches a game for 72.6 yards per game and 0.58 touchdowns/game
Wow, these are sketchy comparisons. Comparing Rice to Moss is akin to comparing Hutson to Lance Alworth. As for Sterling Sharpe, he retired in the prime of his career, after what could be considered his best professional season, and after what undoubtedly were the best 3 years of his career. Rice played for a good 5 years past his prime, bringing his averages down a great deal in the process.
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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I'll never understand how anyone can talk about a player that played in an era before they were born (let alone in 1930) with any credible knowledge other than what they've read.

But I guess there's no harm in people daydreaming about how great Don Hutson was even though probably never saw more than a minute of compiled footage of him.
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 20yardline View Post
In the 1940's and 1950's the Cleveland Browns also had a schematic advantage under Paul Brown.

In the 1980's and 1990's the 49ers had a schematic advantage under Bill Walsh, a Paul Brown disciple. Nobody could duplicate the 49ers scheme for years, and not very successfully until the mid 1990's.
The numbers produced by Walsh's West coast offense and produced by say, the Air Croyell, The Raiders' Vertical Passing, or Shula's High Octane, are quite comparable. The difference between what Lambeau and Brown, and their nearest competitor was much greater.

In 1942, when the Packers offense was at its peak, Irv Comp passed for over 2000 yards and 24 TDs, the next closest competitors passed for 1500 yards and 16 TDs, that's a third again as much as the number two guy, Sammy Baugh, a hall of fame QB. In 1995, when Rice was at his peak, the number two passer had 4,338 yards and 33 TDs. To replicate the schematic advantage that the packers enjoyed, we'd be talking about passing for 5,784 yards and 44 TDs. The 49ers QBs didn't come anywhere near that level of production, in fact, Steve Young failed to crack the top ten in either catagory in 1995. Walsh's teams never came anywhere near the disparity of ability that Lambeau enjoyed.

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Again, I am not taking anything away from Rice, I loved the guy. In my opinion, Hutson was on par with him. He could go deep for touchdowns, and could take crossing routes or slants for touchdowns, much like Rice. He averaged 1 touchdown every 4.9 catches to Rice's 1 touchdown every 7.9 catches. I just believe it is not as clear cut as you make it sound. They are 1a and 1b as the greatest receivers of all-time.
You're pulling out isolated statistics here and there to support your argument, however, the overwhelming amount of evidence supports Rice. He's had more yards, more TDs, more Catches, more championships, more pro bowls, more all pro nominations, proved himself against more advanced defenses, against better athletes, and in varied schemes.

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Brett Favre has all of the passing records, but I don't think he is the greatest quarterback of all-time. I don't even have him in my top 5 all-time. So you can't just go off of stats alone.
Why not? He has all the records, he has a championship, he has more MVP awards than any player in history. I think your top five is very skewed if you do not include Favre.

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Rice played a ton of seasons, and Hutson played 11 years and only 10-11 game seasons, most of them 10 games. Also, Hirsch did not even start playing until the year after Hutson retired. The same can be said of Lavelli. Plus they played in longer seasons and were part of the first passing age. So it is really unfair to compare their numbers, and they still are not as good as Hutson's even with your formula above.
Hirsch started playing 12 years after Hutson. Randy Moss started playing 13 years after Rice.

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I think it is important not to forget the players that laid the way (making almost nothing) for the players that play the game today.
Just because you were the first to do something doesn't mean you were the best. Bill George is not the greatest Middle Linebacker ever, he's not even in the conversation for best mike in Bears history.
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:32 AM    (permalink
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you cant compare them you really cant, different eras, different games reallly
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:21 AM    (permalink
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you cant compare them you really cant, different eras, different games reallly
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Why not? He has all the records, he has a championship, he has more MVP awards than any player in history. I think your top five is very skewed if you do not include Favre.
Because in the tight moments of games, he makes big mistakes about as often as he makes big plays. I do have him in my top 10. I love his toughness and his competitiveness, and he is extremely fun to watch, but he isn't in my top 5. In fact, of current NFL quarterbacks that are not on my favorite team, he is my favorite.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Is this a joke?
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Is this a joke?
That's just disrespectful to Hutson. Clearly siding with your boy Jerry without knowing anything about Hutson. http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/me...?player_id=104
----
Anyway like I said, Hutson is the most important WR to ever play. He created several routes and moves and dominated. He made this all possible. But Jerry Rice is the best WR ever. That's the correct statement to put on this discussion, and that's the bottom line, cause Stone Cold said so.

And a fun fact: in 1942-43 in 21 games played on defense at Safety, Hutson had 15 Interceptions for 268 yards and a TD. He had 4 in each of the next 2 years. He was a ballhawk before the ball was even thrown that much, unbelievable INT numbers right there.
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Old 02-23-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Because in the tight moments of games, he makes big mistakes about as often as he makes big plays. I do have him in my top 10. I love his toughness and his competitiveness, and he is extremely fun to watch, but he isn't in my top 5. In fact, of current NFL quarterbacks that are not on my favorite team, he is my favorite.
And yet John Elway, whom you put on "Mount Passmore" as you put it in another thread, choked away 3 super bowls, and played terrible in four of them. Favre completely outplayed Elway in the Super Bowl. Favre and Elway have both played 22 playoff games, and Favre has a passer rating of 85.2, and Elway has a passer rating of 79.8. Byron Leftwich has a career QB rating of 79.7.

If you're gonna judge QBs solely off performance in the playoffs, a foolish idea in my opinion, then try to do it on something other than selective memories.
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Last edited by DragonFireKai : 02-23-2008 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Steve Young look good (look at what he did before the 49ers).
College: Senior Season 3900 yards, 33 TDs, 71.3 % Completion(NCAA single season record), 11-1 with a Holiday Bowl win over Missouri. Finished 2nd in Heisman voting. After 3 seasons, 592 pass completions for 7,733 yards and 56 touchdowns, along with 1,048 rushing yards and 18 touchdowns on the ground. 2001, enshrined into the College Football Hall of Fame.

USFL: Led the LA Express to playoffs. First pro football player to throw for 300 and run for 100 yards in a single game.

NFL: First supplemental selection to the Tampa Bay YUCKS! With no talent around him whatsoever.
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