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View Poll Results: Where doe he rank?
Best Ever 24 15.48%
Top 5 81 52.26%
Top 10 41 26.45%
Top 15 9 5.81%
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:23 AM    (permalink
drowe
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Well that's just your opinion, not fact. There are Hall of Fame players and coaches that think he's the greatest of all time. Why is it everyone uses the "he played with the greatest receiver of all time" card when he only played with Rice for half of his career practically? He won two Super Bowls before that while playing with guys like Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, and Russ Francis. And the running game was not much to speak of until 1987.

As for Steve Young, is it possible that we could have just had two quarterbacks that were good on the same roster? Hmmm. Let's not forget that Young played with great talent his entire tenure with the 49ers. "Household name" talent. Montana did not.

I could make the same case about Brett Favre not being successful if he didn't have all of those coaches in Green Bay tutoring him. And he's been in just about the same type of offense his entire career.

Even though ranking quarterbacks is kind of pointless to me, if I were to actually make rankings, Favre is 6th or 7th on my list.

those are all very valid points as well. our opinions obviously just differ on Joe Cool. and, i've seen Montana play. a lot. so, i'm not just making a judgement on stats and rosters here. but, like i said....we could all fight about this until we're dead and never resolve anything. this will always just be discussion
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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when are people gonna stop mentioning Trent Dilfer in EVERY 'Qb's and rings' conversation?

(it's a good argument, but c'mon, be creative, surely there have been other crappy SB winners)
There's no more compelling and current argument than Trent Dilfer, that's why he keeps getting used. Sure, someone could bring up Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Doug Williams, Earl Morrall, Joe Namath, or even multiple winners like Jim Plunkett, Terry Bradshaw, and even Troy Aikman, but the only one that really compares in awfulness to Dilfer, especially in the year(s) that they won it all, is Earl Morrall, and if you bring him up, most people would say "who?".

Anyway, now that Favre is retired, how can anyone have an active QB in their Top 5?
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Well that's just your opinion, not fact. There are Hall of Fame players and coaches that think he's the greatest of all time. Why is it everyone uses the "he played with the greatest receiver of all time" card when he only played with Rice for half of his career practically? He won two Super Bowls before that while playing with guys like Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, and Russ Francis. And the running game was not much to speak of until 1987.

As for Steve Young, is it possible that we could have just had two quarterbacks that were good on the same roster? Hmmm. Let's not forget that Young played with great talent his entire tenure with the 49ers. "Household name" talent. Montana did not.
Dude, you were the one trying to state your opinion as fact, not me.

I have Montana at the 5th greatest QB of the passing era, how is that not saying he is good? Hell, how is that not saying he is great? Same with Steve Young, I have him in the top ten, obviously I think they were both great QBs.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I think Elways fans put him in the top 5 because of his last two superbowl-winning seasons. If you look at his overall stats, he was very much average except for a few seasons. He was a winner YES and that puts him up there with the best...But I think top 3 for Elway is too high. I'll say top 10.

Being a packer fan and a HOMER, I'll say Favre is the greates ever. When he was playing whether winning or not, I could not pull my eyes away from the TV
I absolutely despise the Broncos. But John Elway stats or no stats is the greatest QB of all time. He could everything, better then anyone else. And was the most clutch player of all time.
Favre is a great, great player, but his problem is. Like the last game he played in, is that he is almost as likely to blow it then then win it. The horrible game against St. Louis in 01, the absolutely dreadful punt he chucked against Philly in the 4-26 game in 03. Then there is the bad throw against the Giants. Those to me are huge, and drag him down a couple of pegs.
Its like Marino, another all time great, but never could he be considered the best. He had many chances, and when he needed to be 25 for 31 for 400 yards, and 5 TDs. He couldn't do it, not that it's all his fault, but he couldn't be stunning in so many of those playoff games when he had too, to win.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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I absolutely despise the Broncos. But John Elway stats or no stats is the greatest QB of all time. He could everything, better then anyone else. And was the most clutch player of all time.
Favre is a great, great player, but his problem is. Like the last game he played in, is that he is almost as likely to blow it then then win it. The horrible game against St. Louis in 01, the absolutely dreadful punt he chucked against Philly in the 4-26 game in 03. Then there is the bad throw against the Giants. Those to me are huge, and drag him down a couple of pegs.
Its like Marino, another all time great, but never could he be considered the best. He had many chances, and when he needed to be 25 for 31 for 400 yards, and 5 TDs. He couldn't do it, not that it's all his fault, but he couldn't be stunning in so many of those playoff games when he had too, to win.
I think Elway is the best qb since 1978, but are you talking about games like going 10-26 for 108 yards and 2 ints? Or 14-38 for 257 yards 1 TD and 3 INTs? Or 22-37 for 304 1 TD and 1 INT? What about against the Packers when he went 12-22 for 123 yards and 1 INT(By the way, Favre was 25-42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int)?

Elway had two good Super Bowls, one mediocre, and two terrible. Favre played great in one and very good in the other.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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the playoff argument against favre is legit. BUT, you have to remember. he led the Packer to the playoffs in 11 different years. and all but 2 of those years, they won at least one playoff game. yeah, he's f'd up a few times. but, for the most part, the were in games where the Packers were heavy underdogs like at Philly, at St. Louis. the Falcons playoff game was a stinker...and the vikings....eh, i wouldn't put that all on Favre.

anyway, the point is, Favre has thrown some picks in playoff games...but, to say he blew it in the playoffs more than most is a little much. unless you're tom brady or joe montana and are going to the superbowl everytime ya reach the playoffs, your season is gonna end with a loss. I would put the Giants loss on Brett more than any other player. the picks were just ugly and he didn't have it that night. but, that's the only game that i would say he blew for the Packers.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I think Elway is the best qb since 1978, but are you talking about games like going 10-26 for 108 yards and 2 ints? Or 14-38 for 257 yards 1 TD and 3 INTs? Or 22-37 for 304 1 TD and 1 INT? What about against the Packers when he went 12-22 for 123 yards and 1 INT(By the way, Favre was 25-42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int)?

Elway had two good Super Bowls, one mediocre, and two terrible. Favre played great in one and very good in the other.

There no doubt Elway had horrible SB's. But then again the Broncos were really the fifth or six best team in the league in those early ones. Although it happens with more frequency now, (ie the Giants, Steelers), rarely back then did not one of the top two teams win the whole thing. The late 80s early 90s AFC was pretty dreadful and no team in the conference stood a chance against anyone from the NFC (SF, Chi, NYG, Wash.) They were just far superior. As far as Marino goes. I am talking more the AFC playoffs, just to get the SB, they werent that far in overall talent against the teams they were playing. The Bills were great but still to lose at home to them in the 92 AFC Championship game, was pitiful.

I think you're also missing my point, that what I am saying is that Favre absolutely gave his team no shot at winning those games. He blew it, in all those cases. Denver was outclassed to be sure, but Elways clunkers came in the SB, not so much the playoffs. Although they did blow chunks against Jax in 96, when they had the best record in the conference. Just think if they had won that game. He would have matched up against Favre in another SB, and then we would really have the definitive answer.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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There no doubt Elway had horrible SB's. But then again the Broncos were really the fifth or six best team in the league in those early ones. Although it happens with more frequency now, (ie the Giants, Steelers), rarely back then did not one of the top two teams win the whole thing. The late 80s early 90s AFC was pretty dreadful and no team in the conference stood a chance against anyone from the NFC (SF, Chi, NYG, Wash.) They were just far superior. As far as Marino goes. I am talking more the AFC playoffs, just to get the SB, they werent that far in overall talent against the teams they were playing. The Bills were great but still to lose at home to them in the 92 AFC Championship game, was pitiful.

I think you're also missing my point, that what I am saying is that Favre absolutely gave his team no shot at winning those games. He blew it, in all those cases. Denver was outclassed to be sure, but Elways clunkers came in the SB, not so much the playoffs. Although they did blow chunks against Jax in 96, when they had the best record in the conference. Just think if they had won that game. He would have matched up against Favre in another SB, and then we would really have the definitive answer.
Favre had his team in position to win against the Eagles, the defense lost that game.

It is unfair to use Favre's bad playoff games against him, but to give Elway a pass. I don't care how much better a team is than you, when you throw for 100 yards and 0 tds, you had a very ****** game.

Favre completely outplayed Elway in their Super Bowl meeting, TD won that game for the Broncos.

For the record, I have Elway above Favre, because no one in NFL history has carried a team like Elway did in the 80s. Favre comes close, but Elway takes the cake in that regard.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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I would put the Giants loss on Brett more than any other player. the picks were just ugly and he didn't have it that night. but, that's the only game that i would say he blew for the Packers.
The St. Louis game rests squarely on Favre's shoulders too. 6 INTs, there is no excuse for that.
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Favre's Best...
Backups
1-Matt Hasselback
2-Mark Brunell
3-Aaron Brooks
4-Aaron Rodgers
5-Doug Pederson

RB's
1-Ahman Green
2-Dorsey Levens
3-Edgar Bennett
4-William Henderson
5-Ryan Grant

WR's
1-Sterling Sharpe
2-Donald Driver
3-Antonio Freeman
4-Robert Brooks
5-Greg Jennings?

TE's
1-Mark Chumura
2-Bubba Franks
3-Keith Jackson
4-Donald Lee
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Old 03-07-2008, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Favre had his team in position to win against the Eagles, the defense lost that game.

It is unfair to use Favre's bad playoff games against him, but to give Elway a pass. I don't care how much better a team is than you, when you throw for 100 yards and 0 tds, you had a very ****** game.

Favre completely outplayed Elway in their Super Bowl meeting, TD won that game for the Broncos.

For the record, I have Elway above Favre, because no one in NFL history has carried a team like Elway did in the 80s. Favre comes close, but Elway takes the cake in that regard.
You don't remember the duck he threw to Dawkins? That led to the game winning field goal. The Pack still had a chance to win that game at that point. It was just a horrible pass.
And you need re-read what I said. Again Elway teams got crushed in the SB when they were far undermanned. Favre blew playoff games hugely when they were not. That's the big difference. He didnt vastly out play him in that Superbowl either Davs missed a lot of the 2ND qtr with migrain, and he had that run on 3rd too, additionally the Packers got the ball back with time left on the clock too. And If you remember the game against Wash, he spotted them to a 10 pt lead, then Washington scored 42 in the second qtr. Look I am not making excuses for him. I hate that f---ing team, but I have to call like I saw it.

One more thing: A lot of this is media creation, we live in a celebrity culture, with the most popular sport in the world, subject to huge hyperbole. And they get treated like kings, with friendly media, etc. With all the rules changes, it not a stretch to say all of them are vastly over rated.

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Old 03-07-2008, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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You don't remember the duck he threw to Dawkins? That led to the game winning field goal. The Pack still had a chance to win that game at that point. It was just a horrible pass.
And you need re-read what I said. Again Elway teams got crushed in the SB when they were far undermanned. Favre blew playoff games hugely when they were not. That's the big difference. He didnt vastly out play him in that Superbowl either Davs missed a lot of the 2ND qtr with migrain, and he had that run on 3rd too, additionally the Packers got the ball back with time left on the clock too. And If you remember the game against Wash, he spotted them to a 10 pt lead, then Washington scored 42 in the second qtr. Look I am not making excuses for him. I hate that f---ing team, but I have to call like I saw it.
Wait, so being in the lead with two minutes left and having your defense let you down makes it Favres fault? He should never have been in position to make that throw. That game rests squarely on the shoulders of the defense.

Elway 12-22 123 yards 0 Tds 1 INT 1 TD rushing
Favre 25-42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int
Tell me, how is that not Favre vastly outplaying him?

TD had 30 rushes for 157 yards and 3 tds. He won that game for the Broncos, period.

Chmura could have caught that pass from Favre, it was just a very good play by Mobley.

Elway had three ints against Washington. You are making excuses for Elway, hold Elway and Favre to the same standards.
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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we were underdogs to philly as i recall
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Dude, you were the one trying to state your opinion as fact, not me.

I have Montana at the 5th greatest QB of the passing era, how is that not saying he is good? Hell, how is that not saying he is great? Same with Steve Young, I have him in the top ten, obviously I think they were both great QBs.
And where was that? I just told the other person that his evaluation of Joe Montana was one of the most misunderstood that I have ever heard. "I", as in "me", that implies opinion. You stated:

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but to put him as the GOAT or 2nd is overrating him.
That could easily be misconstrued as someone stating a fact. We've had this debate before. I don't care where people "rank" quarterbacks, as long as their situations about them are understood correctly.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Pretty gutsy of Sal Pal, to interrupt the retirement ceremonry of Favre with a no holds barred article on the second-half of his career.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Pretty gutsy of Sal Pal, to interrupt the retirement ceremonry of Favre with a no holds barred article on the second-half of his career.
wow what a D-bag. he forgot that not everything that happened to Favre in the postseason was his fault. Ya know like 4th and 23
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm a huge Broncos fan, so I have to put Elway up there. Sure, his stats don't look pretty, but can anyone name me a WR he had to throw to in the 80's? Or how about a RB to hand off to? He had average, maybe above average players on offense until he got to the mid 90's. It is freakin amazing he took the Broncos to the Super Bowl 3 times during the 80's. I mean, the Drive? The Drive 2? How many other QB's could've handled that pressure?
With that in mind, if he isn't in the top 5 at least, your list is flat out wrong.
Now, Favre, I think he is a sure fire top 10, with probably ranking him between 4-7. Yes, he has the records, but so did Hank Aaron, and no one claimed he was the best hitter ever in baseball. I look at it more as what he could do to win you a game, and right now I think he would be behind some other guys. Elway, Montana, Unitas are 3 that come to mind atm.
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Old 03-09-2008, 05:04 AM    (permalink
someone447
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Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
I'm a huge Broncos fan, so I have to put Elway up there. Sure, his stats don't look pretty, but can anyone name me a WR he had to throw to in the 80's? Or how about a RB to hand off to? He had average, maybe above average players on offense until he got to the mid 90's. It is freakin amazing he took the Broncos to the Super Bowl 3 times during the 80's. I mean, the Drive? The Drive 2? How many other QB's could've handled that pressure?
With that in mind, if he isn't in the top 5 at least, your list is flat out wrong.
Now, Favre, I think he is a sure fire top 10, with probably ranking him between 4-7. Yes, he has the records, but so did Hank Aaron, and no one claimed he was the best hitter ever in baseball. I look at it more as what he could do to win you a game, and right now I think he would be behind some other guys. Elway, Montana, Unitas are 3 that come to mind atm.
Give it 10 years and lets see if anyone but Packer fans can name any receivers he threw to, or running backs he handed the ball too. Other than Sterling Sharpe(who he only had for 3-4 years, at the very beginning) who will be memorable?
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Greg Jennings will be remembered, because 10 years from now he's gonna be great :)
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Old 03-09-2008, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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ok Brett has overcome and played through more than any one else
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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wow what a D-bag. he forgot that not everything that happened to Favre in the postseason was his fault. Ya know like 4th and 23
what in that article isn't true?
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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what in that article isn't true?
i was talking more about the guys tone, he acted like Favre did nothing good after 97
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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i think i probably name about 90% of the people that favre threw too during his career. and the funny thing is that NONE of them were big names before him, and NONE were big names after they left him. he made them good. that speaks about the quality of QB brett was.
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